Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno? - Boost Forum

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Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:03 AM
I searched and couldn't find a thread where someone has the GM blower AND the comp cams blower cams. Does anyone know where I can find one, or know what kind of power someone is making with them? Just trying to see how much power people are making with aftermarket cams combined with the blower. I know that you can make the same power with less boost when you use bigger cams. Just like the GTP guys learned you don't always have to run meth.....IAT's and KR can be reduced in a street car.....if anyone has any IAT info when they stuck a bigger pulley back on their motor after running the bigger cams...... THANKS

Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:50 AM
well heres some what of a comparison.

my stock l61 motor on 14 psi was SLOWER then my built L61 (stock head w/ comp turbo cams) on 8.7 psi. The cams are SICK. I STRONGLY recommend them.



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Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 9:58 AM
QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:

well heres some what of a comparison.

my stock l61 motor on 14 psi was SLOWER then my built L61 (stock head w/ comp turbo cams) on 8.7 psi. The cams are SICK. I STRONGLY recommend them.


what were the track times phil?





Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:47 AM
I have the cams and a patriot stage II head still waiting to install, although mine are not the blower grind. I'm anxious to see how well they perform come spring...


12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62


Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:34 PM
Yeah....you should be able to back off the boost and not have to run the meth Airtonics..I am interested to listen to how it idles and "sniffs" at the smog station....some of the cobalt SS guys are regrinding thier cams to the HKS 272 specs and having that nice lumpy idle...but it would be a real finger crossing experience to smog a car like that in California.........
I dig your cav man.....just the way I would do it....clean and quick....did you have full interior on that 13.5 run? Was that on the drag radials that you have listed in your profile (didn't mean to snoop.....just thought it was cool)?
Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:32 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:

QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:

well heres some what of a comparison.

my stock l61 motor on 14 psi was SLOWER then my built L61 (stock head w/ comp turbo cams) on 8.7 psi. The cams are SICK. I STRONGLY recommend them.


what were the track times phil?


Never went, but you know as well as anyone that you can tell when something is that much faster



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Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 9:28 PM
Fat Kid wrote:

Yeah....you should be able to back off the boost and not have to run the meth Airtonics..I am interested to listen to how it idles and "sniffs" at the smog station....some of the cobalt SS guys are regrinding thier cams to the HKS 272 specs and having that nice lumpy idle...but it would be a real finger crossing experience to smog a car like that in California.........
I dig your cav man.....just the way I would do it....clean and quick....did you have full interior on that 13.5 run? Was that on the drag radials that you have listed in your profile (didn't mean to snoop.....just thought it was cool)?


I'm hoping for some lope, thankfully we don't have required smog tests in Michigan. I plan to spin the charger to it's max rpm, the boost might actually increase I dunno. Probably the same size or slightly smaller pulley than current setup but another 2k engine rpm which makes a big difference in S/C rpm.

I updated my profile to include the 13.5 slip. The only interior item removed was the spare tire and jack. I had drag radials on the car, the track was cold and wet though. Finally when it started to warm up and I was hooking up with some good 60fts I was getting fuel cut from the walbro fuel pump (oops) so I didn't get the low 13 I was shooting for and didn't have time to go to the gas station as they were closing. Last trip for the season, next year will be faster.

I have a ton of parts waiting to install this winter


12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62


Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:10 PM
I was wondering what cams to get, I dont want to go to the extremes and get the 272 spec cams, but what do you guys think of going with the stage 2 cams from comp over the blower cams, do you think you would be able to notice the difference of the two?

- Street & Strip (Stage 2) Applications power from 3000-7500rpm .440 intake and .436 exhaust valve lift, 258 intake and 262 exhaust duration advertized (216 intake and 218 exhaust @ .050" duration) Requires computer modifications

-Blower Applications power from 2800-7000rpm .423 intake and .436 exhaust valve lift, 252 intake and 262 exhaust duration advertized (210 intake and 218 exhaust @ .050" duration)

or would the stage 3 cams be better with some headwork done?

-Street & Strip high RPM (Stage 3) Applications power from 3500-8000rpm .456 intake and .453 exhaust lift, 264 intake and 268 exhaust duration advertized (222 intake and 224 exhaust @ .050" duration) Requires computer modification very strong power over 5000 RPM

I dont know, What do you guys think would be the best to go with?

.




Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:01 AM
I know it's not as important to you guys as it us for us turbo guys when looking at lift and duration because we need exhaust power to spin the turbo, but you guys have boost regardless. So maybe Airtonics is on to something, maybe just get the stage 2 NA grind or stage 3 even



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Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:06 AM
I thought about getting the stage 3's instead of the turbo grind, but then I spoke w/ the guys and comp and remembered some of the converstions that phil and I had about the cams and ordered the turbo grind last Thursday. I'm hoping they are as sick as you say they are phil, I'm so stoked about having the built motor and getting the rest of the car finished.

My Progress Thread


---------------------------------------------------
4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!


Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:27 AM
Phil I agree we have different things to consider. Even the big hp turbo guys (evos and other dsm cars) typically run some fairly aggressive cams however it takes a long time to spool the turbo it seems. Another thing for others to keep in mind is the valvetrain, unless you plan on upgrading it I'm doubting the stock springs will enjoy a stage 2 or 3 cam. That's part of why I went with the patriot head because it has dual valve springs and should take the duration of the stage 3 cams that I have.

I'm very surprised more people don't have the cams installed, they've been out for a while. I've had all my parts sitting in the basement for about a year but a wedding and buying a house put it lower on the priority list for a bit. I remember there were quite a few who participated in hypsy's GP on comp cams and patriot heads. If I recall Ben Wenel Jr has the stage 3 cams in his setup with 12:1 compression, that's the only one I can think of aside from Phil.


12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62



Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Monday, January 14, 2008 12:10 PM
i have the comp cams turbo grind and it idles it idels funny.
Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Monday, January 14, 2008 6:38 PM
the turbo cams did not affect my idle

and Airtonics, yeah I agree those dsm and evo people dont spool till 5k, but remember then wind those @!#$s out till 9k rpms.

The highest mine ever went was 7250 on stock head. But those turbo cams dropped my full spool from 3500 to 2500, they are worth EVERY penny of the 400 bucks I spent



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Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Monday, January 14, 2008 9:57 PM
Whats their part # for the supercharged grind? I haven't seen comp cams being boost specific on any website, Just comp cams for $400 bucks.



Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Monday, January 14, 2008 10:57 PM
Off the comp site it says:
#113250 (ECO XE252BHR-13) for the blower cams
#113150 (ECO XE246THR-13) for the turbo cams
#113200 (ECO XE252HR-11) for the stage 1 cams
#113300 (ECO XE258HR-11) for the stage 2 cams
#113400 (ECO XE264HR-13) for the stage 3 cams

hope this helps




Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:29 PM
Phil do the Comp Cams require ECU mods like HPT?

or will they be ok with the stock ECU and turbo fuel mods?

I am inquiring about the blower cams for this thread (and the turbo cams for me...I have the stg II patriot head and patriot's cams and they won't give me any advice on differences from stock and if it will help/hurt turbo...)



Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 11:51 AM
QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) - APU wrote:

QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:

well heres some what of a comparison.

my stock l61 motor on 14 psi was SLOWER then my built L61 (stock head w/ comp turbo cams) on 8.7 psi. The cams are SICK. I STRONGLY recommend them.


what were the track times phil?


Never went, but you know as well as anyone that you can tell when something is that much faster


PJ's already had his butt dyno certified to be pretty inaccurate. And unless you have a track time or a dyno to back up that statement I really don't think you should be advising anyone whether or not to use those cams. If you want to say "they felt faster" thats fine, but without some kind of empirical evidence to back it up, all it is, is a guess.




Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:21 PM
the GM drag cars idled around 2k and they lopped like crazy

its all in the rpm range you want the motor to be most efficient in







Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:24 PM
ok... well since mr. scarab jumped in here, we all should call comp and tell them to stop selling ecotec cams cause apparently, because I said they made a difference is a reason we shouldn't recommend them...

you people @!#$ tickle me pink

the cams alone dropped my FULL spooled rpm from about 3600 to damn near 2400 rpms. I am not some stupid noob who put on an intake and said it felt faster. I spent 450 bucks on a set of turbo cams from Comp cams, damn near the industries leading provider of after market camshafts, but hell I guess because I didn't dyno my car, that makes them know nothing when designing cams. Maybe I should go to tell those 800+ whp evo's and srt's and chevy BB's that hey your comp cams might not have done anything for your motor. I suggest putting stock cams back in......

whatever, I know for a fact, without a doubt those cams not only decreased my spool time, but added hp, and gave me some hella badass top end power.

take my word on the comp cams or not, they are worth every penny and will increase hp.

but because i did not dyno, or track my car I am wrong... hell... I might have lost power by building my motor.... cause I didn't track it or dyno it then either.... damn, what a waste of 5 grand





LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:26 PM
Matt K wrote:

Phil do the Comp Cams require ECU mods like HPT?

or will they be ok with the stock ECU and turbo fuel mods?

I am inquiring about the blower cams for this thread (and the turbo cams for me...I have the stg II patriot head and patriot's cams and they won't give me any advice on differences from stock and if it will help/hurt turbo...)


I know what you have Matt, we used to talk all the time, you and I were going mod for mod lol... Yes they will require some retooling of the ecu, but I have a friend who HP Tunes and has credits for a 2002 ecotec since, he spent countless hours tuning mine



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Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:11 PM
yeah but I still have my stock clutch! are you talking about Matt H?

I want to get the HPT but I'm short on cash cuz I'm in school and only working 2 days a week...I finish this semester so I'll prob get it in the summer or just pay someone for now for a few tweeks for now...

I'm seriously considering putting in my stock cams in again but I don't know cam specs well and how to translate specs from what Patriot gave me to what GM gives...dunno...




Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:36 PM
Matt Hazzard will tune everything.

I suggest upgrading your clutch before adding any more power.



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Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:37 PM
Stripping your car down to the frame might make your car faster but we are talking about HP here, track times dont tell the whole story when it comes to that

Case and point my old cav never saw a 14 sec pass because it weighed more than anyone elses cav, yet theres still people on here that say oh well your dyno must be wrong you cant possibly have 185whp and be running 15.3. Clearly all you had to do was look in the trunk and see several hundred pounds of audio equipment, yet thats still not enough for some retards on here so I'm not going to go over that because obviously people lack the intelligence to understand such a concept as power to weight ratio.

So stick the track times where the sun doesnt shine thats not what this discussion is about

Anyways it doesnt take much more than a caveman to see that hitting full boost 1000-1500 rpms sooner obviously means an improvement, thats speaking of the comp cams turbo cams, I cant say anything for the blower grind as they are different. Furthermore, when you see almost a full point drop off the AFR its a pretty clear indication that your getting more airflow, and in conjunction more fuel needs to be added, you dont need a chassis or butt dyno to tell you that its making more power as a result. Its simple physics.





1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Friday, January 18, 2008 4:01 AM
QBE (Aka Phil No More Boost) wrote:

ok... well since mr. scarab jumped in here, we all should call comp and tell them to stop selling ecotec cams cause apparently, because I said they made a difference is a reason we shouldn't recommend them...

you people @!#$ tickle me pink

the cams alone dropped my FULL spooled rpm from about 3600 to damn near 2400 rpms. I am not some stupid noob who put on an intake and said it felt faster. I spent 450 bucks on a set of turbo cams from Comp cams, damn near the industries leading provider of after market camshafts, but hell I guess because I didn't dyno my car, that makes them know nothing when designing cams. Maybe I should go to tell those 800+ whp evo's and srt's and chevy BB's that hey your comp cams might not have done anything for your motor. I suggest putting stock cams back in......

whatever, I know for a fact, without a doubt those cams not only decreased my spool time, but added hp, and gave me some hella badass top end power.

take my word on the comp cams or not, they are worth every penny and will increase hp.

but because i did not dyno, or track my car I am wrong... hell... I might have lost power by building my motor.... cause I didn't track it or dyno it then either.... damn, what a waste of 5 grand


You can get as butt-hurt as you want phil, I don't say these things because I don't like you, or because I'm trying to make fun of you. Tell me what in my post was incorrect... Did I say that the cams don't make power? Did I say comp cams can't be trusted? No, I simply said that you have no actual proof that your car made more power at 8 psi with the cams than it did with stock cams at 14 psi. Is that an incorrect statement? No. You have no proof of this, plain and simple. Personal experience and subjective observations are not PROOF. Just because you built a motor and turbo'd your car does NOT mean you're any more gifted at judging power via the seat of the pants than anyone else on here. Plenty of us who have just as much, or in some cases, more experience than you, can be utterly convinced that a mod made more power, only to find out it didn't once dyno or track time rolls around. Now you can get offended by this, and get sarcastic with me like I'm singling you out, but I'm not. I'll ask for proof from anyone who makes a claim like that, regardless of who it is, and anyone here will tell you that. And its not because I don't believe, or because I want to embarass somone, its because I've seen enough people take advice on here under false pretenses and wind up unsatisfied or outright screwed over because of it. How many people got lulled into the "the HO manifold is the best for the 2.4" line, and when we finally get a before and after dyno, there's a loss through just about the whole powerband?



Quote:

Stripping your car down to the frame might make your car faster but we are talking about HP here, track times dont tell the whole story when it comes to that

Case and point my old cav never saw a 14 sec pass because it weighed more than anyone elses cav, yet theres still people on here that say oh well your dyno must be wrong you cant possibly have 185whp and be running 15.3. Clearly all you had to do was look in the trunk and see several hundred pounds of audio equipment, yet thats still not enough for some retards on here so I'm not going to go over that because obviously people lack the intelligence to understand such a concept as power to weight ratio.

So stick the track times where the sun doesnt shine thats not what this discussion is about


Track times aren't as good as a dyno, but so long as you look at the whole picture and pay attention to variables, they can still be a good indicator. If a car weighs 2800 lbs on one track visit, and runs a 14.5 at 95 mph, then its pretty safe to say that if no weight is added or removed and it runs a 13.6 at 102mph the next time, that whatever mods you've done in between have been effective and increased power. If someone were to say, I ran XX time at YY mph with this setup, and then ran AA time and BB mph with this setup at the same vehicle weight, than it can contribute to the body of evidence that points to one setup being faster or not. While track times may not be a perfect indicator, I'd trust a comparison of track times over someone's personal impression any day.

Quote:

Anyways it doesnt take much more than a caveman to see that hitting full boost 1000-1500 rpms sooner obviously means an improvement, thats speaking of the comp cams turbo cams, I cant say anything for the blower grind as they are different. Furthermore, when you see almost a full point drop off the AFR its a pretty clear indication that your getting more airflow, and in conjunction more fuel needs to be added, you dont need a chassis or butt dyno to tell you that its making more power as a result. Its simple physics.


Hitting full boost earlier doesn't necessarily mean its making any more power. You can get a cam that will give you 300 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm, but will run out of steam by the time you're hitting 4000 rpm.

As for AFR, its at least some form of evidence, but no one mentioned that until you just did.

If you guys want to get pissed off at me for asking for proof fine. But at least understand that I'm not doing it to be a wiseass or a douche, I'm doing it so that other people don't take your comments and observations and turn them into overblown expectations for their own modding.






Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Re: Blown Ecotec with comp cams dyno?
Friday, January 18, 2008 4:43 AM
Regardless of how wrong you think I am or how incorrect I am for saying they do what they are advertised to do, I am still going to recommend them all day, all night. because I am sorry to say, they helped....

I dont need to go spend 80 bucks to see they added power and decreased spool time. I didn't state exact number's. Oh yeah they gave me an extra 22 whp from 2000-7000 rpms.

I stated what I stated for a reason, because I knew what I was saying was correct



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