Also when you did your injector constant did you do it based off the GM reflash constant, or the stock N/A constant?
FU Tuning
im running a 3" pulley and my 42lbs injectors were at 86%idc...upgrading to 60's bc im going with a 2.8" pulley
you might not need new injectors if you switch to a higher flowing fuel pump like the walbro or racetronix. could be cheaper than injectors as well. i did notice with the higher flowing pump my stock FPR went bad so i needed an AFPR..
karo might be able to get you a walbro, i ordered one from him a few months ago. just make sure you get the in tank pump, not the inline one.
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
I actually might have some delphi injectors that will work perfect for you, ive had them for awhile now, ill double check the flow on them tomorrow for you but im willing to let em go pretty cheap.
evilmonkitar wrote:you might not need new injectors if you switch to a higher flowing fuel pump like the walbro or racetronix. could be cheaper than injectors as well. i did notice with the higher flowing pump my stock FPR went bad so i needed an AFPR..
karo might be able to get you a walbro, i ordered one from him a few months ago. just make sure you get the in tank pump, not the inline one.
We cobalts dont have fuel pressure regulators, and too change my fuel pump to a walboro would require me to drop my fuel tank, along with more tuning, which is something i dont feel like doing, spent 150shipped for 60lb injectors and the harness, installed in 20mins. and now just need to retune for my 2.8" pulley and bigger injectors
i had to drop my tank too but i wasnt aiming that response to you, i was aiming it toward wade
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
ah lol, my bad, i guess wade made injector comments as well :p
the stock pump is only going to flow 20GPH or 75LPH. this is only enough to supply 220 crank HP. It is most certainly a very bad idea to try to power your engine with such a puny pump. definately upgrade to a walbro 255LPH pump so it can support upto 600 HP for you.
What size injectors are you currently running?
at a bare minimum, you would need ...
Target HP at crank PRE SC'r = 350'ish.
560CFMs x .0704 (<--- wieght of each CFM @ 90*F in Lbs) = 39.42lbs/min of airflow
39.42 / 12.5AFR = 3.15lbs/min of fuel use
3.15 x 60 (<--- Convert lbs/min to lbs/hour) = 189.23lbs/hr of fuel use.
189.23 x 1.20 (<--- 20% overhead safety factor) = 227.08 lbs/hr of fuel use.
227.08 / 4 cyl = 56.77 lbs/hr injector size
Injectors should be around 55lbs/hr to fully utilize your airflow without running them above 85% DC.
Now, going back to the fuel pump, you are needing to convey 227.08lbs/hr of fuel
227.08 / 6 (<----Wieght of each gallon of fuel) 37.84 gallons of fuel per hour.
notice: your stock pump will only flow 20 GPH!!!!
the walbro 255LPH = 70 GPH!!!!
you could also get away with a walbro 190LPH, its a 40GPH pump. but they are both the same price pretty much, might as well get the big boy.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
Yeah I am hoping to keep the stock pump. I know there is a very real chance that it might not be able to do what I need. What I don't know is a lot about this particular subject. Not sure if I should go with the Walbro or Racetronics and I am not familiar with the install or modifications needed to run them. I could easily read up on all that but then there is the cost of it.
I am constantly having a mental debate on what to do with the car. One minute I want to just buy whatever it is I feel the car needs as I have in the past, the next I remember that I want to slow down on blowing money on the car constantly. I am trying to just get it to a point where I can enjoy it as it is. Constantly working on the car means constant down time. I know I am going to miss it so I plan on driving the car until I sell it. I plan to sell it this spring and if nobody wants it as is I am prepared to go back to stock. If that happens not only will I take a loss on everything I recently purchased for it but it will be one more thing to put back to stock. To further complicate matters I have a 2005 Evo that is just sitting in my garage costing me 500+ a month while I drive the cavalier and debate about if I should spend the money on this or that for it.
So I guess for now I am going to continue on looking for 60lb injectors and cross my fingers that they can supply enough fuel with the stock pump. Since I already have it I am in the process of hooking my alky injection back up. I plan to spray 100% meth with I have already purchased locally. I am hoping that will ease the load on my fuel pump as well as combat knock.
I do appreciate and seriously consider the input from everyone.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I understand you do not want to input more and more time and money to this project such as a fuel pump swap. BUT....think as this as one of those necessary upgrades to fully complete the job right.
You are doing a great job so far with the car why sell it? Keep it as a DD and pass it down to a family member maybe.
I wonder.....how great this setup would work on my high compression hybrid Quad?
GMR has got nothing on this
wade-plenty of people have just installed an in-line fuel pump and gotten what they needed along side the stock fuel pump.
maybe you would consider that? it is a much easier option than dropping the entire tank and probably a days downtime at the most.
I must confess... I feel like a monster!
Um... it took me 45 min when I did it on my 95 POS....
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
I have replaced a stock pump in 45 minutes dropping tank, swapping it, and testing it and then getting tank back in the car.
Still I think the stock pump can handle the power he will be making.
Something else I would like to see is just a wiring upgrade to stock pump and see what difference it makes. Thinking of doing it myself.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, November 05, 2009 4:43 PM
FU Tuning
Wade Jarvis wrote:Yeah I am hoping to keep the stock pump.
. What I don't know is a lot about this particular subject.
I am constantly having a mental debate on what to do with the car. One minute I want to just buy whatever it is I feel the car needs as I have in the past, the next I remember that I want to slow down on blowing money on the car constantly. I am trying to just get it to a point where I can enjoy it as it is.
So I guess for now I am going to continue on looking for 60lb injectors and cross my fingers that they can supply enough fuel with the stock pump. .
With all due respect, It appears you are missing a key element in your understanding. The 60lbs injectors will never be able to supply more fuel than the pump can give them to work with. If you retain the stock pump, the maximum fuel than can be delivered to the injectors is only 20GPH. that will only permit enough fuel to flow to use 32lbs/hr injectors. I feel you understand you must have 60lbs/hr injectors, but it seems you do not understand that if your pump only gives your 60's just enough to flow only 32, you really only have 32 no matter how big of an injector you put in. they work as a team. What you are shooting for is a pump that can deliver more than your injectors can flow, so that you always have ample fuel supply for the injectors to pull from.
I understand you want to enjoy what you have now, and not have to spend any more money, but another key element I think you are missing is HP does not come from air flow. Your supercharger gives you the ability to flow a HUGE amount of air. air is completely useless without fuel. in order to make more power you must consume more fuel during each engine cycle. since gasoline burns at 12.5AFR under load, that tells you that you MUST consume more air to be able to burn more fuel. HP comes from fuel. There is absolutely no sence at all in having a giant air pump on your engine unless you also have a firehose squirting fuel in. they work as a team too. without both working together, either is useless.
a walbro is just another 100 dollars. the injectors you need are only another 250. 350 total and you will be able to realize the full pontential of your airflow ability. without these things you have wasted all money spent up till this point.
M90'd Built LGO-15 PSI
http://webstarts.com/quadper4mance
didnt get answer in other m62 topic will try here...
How would i run this manifold and SC without a Idler pulley?(assuming i have all other parts)
You can't run it without the idler pulley. Looking at how the belt routing is it is just not possible.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Wade Jarvis wrote:You can't run it without the idler pulley. Looking at how the belt routing is it is just not possible.
So is Vulcan planning on offering some sort of solution? because well if sales depend on previous m45 owners... that can be a very limited market.
I agree with you.
I was trying to get him to make an idler pulley but it looks like somone is going to have to either buy that part seperate from GM or keep it from their M45 kit. A PCV baffle is being made though.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Fireshroom wrote:didnt get answer in other m62 topic will try here...
How would i run this manifold and SC without a Idler pulley?(assuming i have all other parts)
Is there something wrong with the idler that came with the kit??? I know the bearing on it was not a stock one
Jason
99 Z24 Supercharged
157hp/171tq - NA
190hp/170tq @ 6psi
LG0/LD9 for Life
Blwn LD9 wrote:Fireshroom wrote:didnt get answer in other m62 topic will try here...
How would i run this manifold and SC without a Idler pulley?(assuming i have all other parts)
Is there something wrong with the idler that came with the kit??? I know the bearing on it was not a stock one
You lost me there. I don't think I am understanding your question. I am still using the exact same idler pulley that came with the M45 kit.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Blwn LD9 wrote:Fireshroom wrote:didnt get answer in other m62 topic will try here...
How would i run this manifold and SC without a Idler pulley?(assuming i have all other parts)
Is there something wrong with the idler that came with the kit??? I know the bearing on it was not a stock one
A Idler pulley does not come with the Vulcan manifold as a option to buy, and i dont have your kit anymore Jason.
My question is there going to be some sort of offering from Vulcan? if not there manifold is almost useless.
As far as I know you Vulcan will not be making an idler pulley. Yeah it sucks but it hardly seems like a make or break deal to me.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I know it is an expensive idler pulley. When I bought my M45 kit it was missing the idler pulley so I had to buy one a few years ago myself. I am pretty sure you can still get it. I will double check on that.
If it were up to me I would include it but it is not. Brian from Vulcan seemed to want to try and market this to the people who already had an M45. I have told him myself that I don't want to have to try and sell my M45 kit without one. As it stands now the only thing anyone would need from the M45 kit it the 2bar map sensor and the idler pulley.
I am talking to Jared Methe. His cousin is a machinist and is the one making the PCV plate and the flanges for Vulcan. We are pretty sure his cousin can make this and for under 300 bucks. The only hard part will be finding the bearing and pulley needed.
I am not denying that it is a big deal. Just saying it would not stop ME from buying it.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Cant order that part individually anymore, that means i have to buy another m45 kit just to be able to use my m62.
