2200 supercharged? - Boost Forum

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2200 supercharged?
Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:45 PM
I drive a 2001 sunfire with the ln2/2200 and i think i may have found a valid way to supercharge it. I have read over and over that it can not be done with these cars and to not even try but after driving a friends turbo charged car i suddenly have a need for boost!! That being said i already have a supercharger from a ss cobalt. and i can only work with what i have at hand. Now for the question. why cant the supercharger be remotely mounted ( lets say somewhere like out in front near the rad support) and from there just run piping up to the throttle body as if you were running piping for a turbo setup. then somewhere between the s/c and the throttle body have a blow off valve to release extra pressure wile not on the gas. If what im thinking about could work the air flow could even be directed through a intercooler.
Also just to mention, i am currently in a position where i have access to milling machines therefore a custom flange would not be hard to acquire.
Its just a thought, so let me know what you think

Re: 2200 supercharged?
Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:26 PM
1st step - Learn more about boost.





Re: 2200 supercharged?
Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:27 PM
Not to bash your idea, but that is over-the-top complicated. It is possible, but far from ideal. There will be a TON of custom work needed to be done to make that work.
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:25 AM
If anything you would need my help, to make something like that work!
I would totally re-vamp your whole idea.

Get a centrifugal type supercharger, not a roots type.
Remove AC compressor and make a custom bracket to mount the supercharger there.
Make a custom pulley, after doing come research ofcourse.
Then make some piping.
Also supercharged applications DO NOT have "blow off valves".
Very few set ups have "bypass valves".
They flow much more.
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:41 AM
RSM use to put out a 2200 super charger kit. It's not that it cant be done because I honestly had planned on doing it. There is just a lot more than mounting the supercharger that would need to go into this.

Turbocharge the car, save your self the hassle and be done with it.





Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:01 AM
With all the time and materials you're looking at, it would be easier and cheaper just to get an eco to go with the blower.


Heavy ass N-body
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:39 PM
Well as i sit right now i have a endless amount of time and more then enough materials to make it work. I am a millwright by trade and currently i am working on a level 2 power train engineer course, therefore at school is where i came up with the idea. like i said before i have access to mills, laths, and welders of all types so a lot of custom fabrication is not a problem at all. I am deferentially going to do this, im just looking for any good idea i may be able to incorporate into my plans.
Here is what i got so far:

1. relocate battery to trunk to clear the front corner
2. fabricate custom brackets to support s/c in desired location
3.fabricate a plate the exact shape of the bottom of the s/c with a 2.75" hole cut in the middle. then weld a stub of pipe to the plate around the hole to mount pipes to deliver air to throttle body
4.fabricate a pulley system to drive s/c ( already mostly fabricated, all that is left to do is find the correct belt)
5.fabricate a plate to mount to the intake of s/c with a stub of pipe to attach a cone filter
6. run piping to throttle body.

There are many more steps in my plans but that is pretty much the bulk of it.
I am not looking for a bashing, but rather some ideas. keep in mind engine swaps are out of the question as is a turbo set up. If anything i just want to do this to say i did it.
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:44 PM
kevin rideout wrote:


3.fabricate a plate the exact shape of the bottom of the s/c with a 2.75" hole cut in the middle. then weld a stub of pipe to the plate around the hole to mount pipes to deliver air to throttle body


You are going to want to rethink that. A roots style supercharger doesnt compress the air inside the rotor housing, it compresses the air in the intake manifold. You will kill the efficiency of the S/C with that idea. You would need a "collector" or "funnel" that matches the outlet of the S/C for the air to be compressed in.





Re: 2200 supercharged?
Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:23 AM
Just to make this clear, Im not bashing at all
But fitting a roots type charger in a 2200 / 2.2 engine bay will "almost" be impossible.
In order to use it, you would need it to be oriented where the pulley could somehow be incorporated into the belt system.
So either remove PS pump and create a custom intake manifold, or remove the AC pump, re-route the exhaust, and mount it there somehow.

Im saying good luck, but it will be a long road ..... I have proved people wrong before, and it feels good!
So lets see you be an innovater!
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:18 AM
Josh G. wrote:

Turbocharge the car, save your self the hassle and be done with it.


^X2

Turbocharge it....its cheaper and easier...and not to bash superchargers cause I have a M45 myself, but you will get more power out of a turbo and thats what everyone wants right??



Re: 2200 supercharged?
Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:32 PM
yeah turbo it for the 2200 too much work to SC



JBO since July 30, 2001

Re: 2200 supercharged?
Thursday, March 11, 2010 6:52 PM
Phil Lindsay wrote:


But fitting a roots type charger in a 2200 / 2.2 engine bay will "almost" be impossible.
In order to use it, you would need it to be oriented where the pulley could somehow be incorporated into the belt system.
So either remove PS pump and create a custom intake manifold, or remove the AC pump, re-route the exhaust, and mount it there somehow.

Im saying good luck, but it will be a long road ..... I have proved people wrong before, and it feels good!
So lets see you be an innovater!


This is the type of response im looking for, come on people, keep the ideas coming!
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:46 PM
I was thinking that you could mount the SC below the intake manifold in the rear. It would put the snout in line with the belt but you will need some sort of custom intake and maybe some firewall modification.



Re: 2200 supercharged?
Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:52 PM
Wynjammer once made a supercharger kit for the LN2'd S-trucks... Used a 2-step belt-drive system in order to get the driven pulley on the 'charger up to speed enough to get the thing to output enough air to make it justifiable.

They don't offer it anymore. Why? Three good reasons:

1) Blowers rely on (At-crank) engine power to drive them, which zaps 33% of the total at-crank power made just to turn it. Turbos rely on exhaust-system drive-pressure to be turned, which (If sized, has it's bypass-valve & entire exhaust-system tuned properly) effectively requires only 5% of at-crank power to turn for the same amount of output.

2) Blowers... no matter how well shielded, coated or lubed they are... can't achieve the level of adiabatic-state (Where no heat is generated in the creation of the charge or transferred into it) that a good turbo system would have. I'm talking 80% or more here!

With you being a powertrain-engineer in-training, I'm surprised if you don't know or didn't consider those last two points. God knows that if the rules allowed, and the metallurgy was there to withstand the spooling at the line without "windowing" or "throwin'-rods", top-fuel teams would go turbo. Maybe you should consider studying another field...

Oh, and if the first two didn't get through to ya... this one will:

3) Blowers... outside of "traditionalists" in this hobby... are considered "dated", "old-fashioned" & "outmoded" by the typical builder of these newer machines (Young, impressionable trend-chasers that don't really know anything yet... But they love "The fast & The Furious" & wanna be like those guys in it!) and those that market parts for those machines will only put money into the development & production of that with research shows will appeal to that group. Oh sure, the Eco gets a blower... But that's not the top-trim model of that engine, now is it? See what's on the one that is? Better yet, look closely at the powertrain of the Oldsmobile Aerotech, the first "GM Twin-cam" machine. What's that along the exhaust tract? See? Even back in the "dark-days" of Detroit, it was known turbo is the way to go for the future of performance automobiles.


Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:20 PM
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

I was thinking that you could mount the SC below the intake manifold in the rear. It would put the snout in line with the belt but you will need some sort of custom intake and maybe some firewall modification.


I already considered going this root and may do it yet, im just throwing the idea out in hopes to getting some positive responses that i can use. Seams the majority of people on here do not believe in a " positive response", but thanks for sharing what you think!
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:38 PM
a centrifugal is really your only option, being the engine is "backwards" theres really no room for a roots type blower



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:39 AM
kevin rideout wrote:

TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

I was thinking that you could mount the SC below the intake manifold in the rear. It would put the snout in line with the belt but you will need some sort of custom intake and maybe some firewall modification.


I already considered going this root and may do it yet, im just throwing the idea out in hopes to getting some positive responses that i can use. Seams the majority of people on here do not believe in a " positive response", but thanks for sharing what you think!


Oh, we believe in positive-response.... Come-up with a bad idea, and we're positive you'll get a response!

But seriously, even if you do... somehow... manage to package a roots-type blower under the hood, you'd need a stong manifold to mount it to. And I don't think a sheet-metal job will exactly do it.



Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:36 AM
This has FAIL written all over it.. Could it be done? Yes... Is it worth it? NO....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 10:45 AM
As much as I would love to see a roots blower mounted on an LN2... I see much fail in this project. It sounds like you need to do a lot more research before even attempting this if you must attempt it.



Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:38 AM
if this was possible i would have went that route instead of swap... But here is a question if was possible or had been done. how much power would it make? since the charger steals power from the crank. the ohv barley makes power as it is? so if the m62 with the eco makes a additional 100hp to the crank making it 250 to the crank. whats the ohv going to do 150 to the crank? making it just as fast as a stock ld9 or Eco?

Still would love to see it!



Mods: Synapse Charge Piping, Short Throw, Bad-Mab Dp, Dejon Intake, BYT Tuned!
Parts For SALE! Pacesetter Header(ECO),17'in Resonator, Alternator, Starter, Viper Alarm.
Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:50 PM
it is a lot of work for very little power. your better off buying a bolt on turbo kit.

Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:06 PM
There is a 2200 running around with a Vortec supercharger on it. It is mounted where the A/C used to be. If I remember correctly he is from Spain....well that is where I sent the pulley......

There is also another JBO member working on a Vortec supercharger for his Sunfire. I do not remember what motor he is using, but if you search you should be able to find it. I posted in the thread a long time ago.



Added Vortec LD9 Build.....Click ME!




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:31 PM


Re: 2200 supercharged?
Wednesday, March 06, 2013 5:47 PM
Well Hey I'm not good at keeping these updated but i'm doing a LN2 in a cavalier with a M62 super charger from a 3800 bonnieville. Could be a shot in the dark. But I wanted to try it. I currently have that LN2 mated with the G6's 6-Speed it in the car and drive's nice, just like stock my only problem is no accurate speedometer. So I use the GPS from garmin for speed. Search for the Dustin Newstrom post for the 6 speed. I will soon have picture there.
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