Also, for those interested...
ammfabs head, but with Comp Stage 3 Cams:
249HP / 203TQ
i dont know how accurate that software is (i know u say its pretty accurate newt) but thats bad ass that mine cam out on top 20+ whp over the m2. very cool sir
mike
i make neons go fast
It is pretty accurate....i built mine and my buddies motor on it and we both dyno'd almost exactly the same horsepower. My other buddy built his supercharged/cammed 3400 with it and it dyno'd something like 10hp more than it said it would, mind you it makes alot more power than an all-motor car so a 2% (or whatever it is) accuracy means a bit less.
Regardless of what it will actually make for power...your head it definitely flowing a lot more than the m2race one.
BTW that is crank horsepower since the program can't account for different the difference power train loss in cars.
Newt - can you run that sim using an LE5 bottom end? 2.4L - 88mm bore, 98mm stroke, and using 11:1 compression? I'm curious how they play together.
Sure can Ryan, I won't be able to run it till sometime next week...I'm at work right now and then right after I'm leaving for drag racing all weekend.
What cams did you want me to run with it? I could do both the Stage 2 and Stage 3 if you want.
I'm actually be running the "blower" grind. So if you wanted to do that and stage 3 that would be sweet. Thanks for your time man!
K sounds good, anything to help another enthusiast out!
20hp From numbers so close to each other? Either way if those number are right thats a huge increase.
I'm sure those numbers are right, I double checked them when I entered them in......you do have me doubting myself now tho, I'll triple check all the numbers later...lol
OK I double checked my numbers and found a slight error.....very sorry about this....this is what happened.
I forgot a value when entering the flow sheet for the m2race head....so the numbers play out like this
m2race = 231 HP / 200 TQ
So that compares against the unchanged ammfab number from before of:
ammfab = 242 HP / 204 TQ
Still a very significant gain over the m2race head...and considering its cheaper.....all is now well with the universe.
oldskool -
2.4 Bottom end, ammfab head, 11:1, stage 3 cams: 268@7500 hp / 225@5000 tq
2.4 Bottom end, ammfab head, 11:1, blower cams: 251@7000 hp / 221@5000 tq
for comparison:
2.2 bottom end, ammfab head, 11:1, stage 3 cams: 262@8000 hp / 211@ 5500 tq
Ricardo - I need the following information about your turbo to run it for you....
Island CFM
Surge CFM
Pressure Ratio
Peak Efficiency
Boost Limit
and your intercooler efficiency if you know it.
Did your dyno take into account the increase of compression using the 2.4 block? I believe oldskool said it is raised to 11.5:1.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Sweet man, thanks for running the numbers, and for the 2.2L @ 11:1 as well. I can't believe this thing could make well over 100hp/liter on a relatively mild cam. A good deal more torque, negligible HP gain and powerband shifted lower. The stage 3 cams on the LE5 could probably be phased to bring the peak even lower and save the rotating assembly some stress. Thanks again!
Leafy, My best estimate of the LE5 bottom/L61 head combo is about 11.05:1 using a stock HG thickness. That's using a 53cc head (this is patriot's spec on a L61 head)
He said to run it with 11:1 compression...so that is what I did.....so yes, it does take that into account.
For fun.....
L61
13.5:1 CR, ammfab head, Newts Custom Cams: 318@9000 hp / 228@5500 tq
So this is more of a question for the experts/experienced - how long would a head ported to this extreme last under daily driving conditions. By that i mean in a car that is generally well maintained and not driven to the extreme at a track all the time. Obviously there are going to be spots on a head like this that are more prone to cracking because they are now thinner, so how does everyone evaluate that risk? Or am i way off base and cracking due to thinner material is not an issue?
That was what i was thinking, the lsj head isnt prone to cracking when ported to this extreme that one of the reasons the high hp gm's use it. The l61 as we have seen on the hahn sunfire didnt last long before they started to lose coolant between cylinders 2-3 due to a hairline crack If I remeber correctly.
i personally would have ammfab do a street port, not as exteme, just in case. M2 race albeit more expensive, xrays their heads before and after porting
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Ammfab do me a favor and get a pic of the exhaust ports from far away
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
Ricardo Rosario wrote:That was what i was thinking, the lsj head isnt prone to cracking when ported to this extreme that one of the reasons the high hp gm's use it. The l61 as we have seen on the hahn sunfire didnt last long before they started to lose coolant between cylinders 2-3 due to a hairline crack If I remeber correctly.
on that note, is it possible for us to use our power steering pump with the lsj head? or any way to have power steering at all?
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Bolts right up Just use an l61 intake cam.
IIRC in the GM build book, they rate the L61 head to be good till 600bhp.
I really don't think this would be much of an issue, not many cars here in the 500+whp range.
the major material removal is from the opening of the intake ports and it tapers off about 1.5" in. i have some shots of the exhaust ports from far away as the engine was being built but i wont upload those until this weekend probably. i do inspect the heads before i port them, in this case since it was my first eco head i also had it pressure tested before i ported in case anybody was wondering. i dont want to do all this work to a bad had head.
mike
i make neons go fast
yeah, it's just the exhaust ports we worry about with the water jackets.
LE61T PTE6262 Powered