smoothing the exhaust ports and combustion chamber reduces the amount of surface that carbon has to collect on. thats why you should polish the exhaust and combustion chambers
01' Z24 5 speed
422whp/400wtq
T4 Turbocharged
Built LD9
HP Tuners
Im 90 percent sure I found a bad 086 head to send you for experimenting. Can you pm me your info so I know where to send it if the deal goes through.
bln ld9- as long as the exhaust ports are not flowing ~ 80% of the intake then this head should be good all around (it will move ur power band up a little yes) but to say it will hurt, no i dont think it will. it will def kick ass on a turbo setup though.
publik- ur not the first person ive heard say that. u know how long it takes for carbon to build up and start choking off ports and chambers, longer then u will have the head on the car for before it gets pulled off again for one reason or another, or it will get sold. like i said its a waste of time in my opinion.
Zs- pmed sir.
mike
i make neons go fast
i just dont know how it would react to n/a... maybe a set of HG2s would really make this bad boy scream.
dear lord on boost though? i bet you'd gain a TON of power with this thing.
Underdog Racing
Once mike gets the flow sheet up, and if someone gives me the cam specs they want tested, I could tell you exactly how much power it will make N/A.......just like I did with the ecotec head.
i want 1 NOW
MP-62 Intercooled 2.9" Pulley
ill get the head to the machine shop this weekend and have it to the flow bench next week. ide like to see what the desk top dyno say sfor this also.
mike
i make neons go fast
I look forward to seeing the numbers. I need to get my ported head on the bench to see what it flows in comparison
Jason
99 Z24
LG0/LD9 for Life
10 Year Bash Veteren
numbers?
MP-62 Intercooled 2.9" Pulley
not yet its still at the machine shop.
mike
i make neons go fast
I haven't posted to Jbody for about 7 years or more. Every now and then when I'm getting nostalgic I'll stop by to see what you guys are up to.
Now I realize it's a fo pas to return after all those years with criticism, but I feel like It's important to share knowledge and experience I've accumulated.
First I want to say that you've got great hand work and that the heads appear to be very precise, so I'm extremely happy to see fine quality! Some of the things I'd like to point out perhaps to improve the product would be the following.
#1 Do not remove casting plateaus in the combustion chamber. Those hips in the chamber as well, along with the plateaus are designed to improve quench. And while removing that material will lower compression enough so that you won't see the issues with knock, I can assure you what you've done has lowered the head's ability to mitigate knock once dynamic compression (or static) returns via higher comp pistons, FI or better engine tuning.
#2 I'm not sure what the purpose of this head is for but it's now for high lift large duration cams for forced induction. By looking at the ports you'll see good results on a bench, but not on a dyno at least not without some big cam work and FI.
+ Remember folks: We're obviously looking for flow, and some will throw in a phrase like velocity. There are two key factors for a head making power NA or otherwise. Firstly remember the flow we're looking for isn't one or two numbers, it's in fact the average flow over the lift event. So one will need to average out the flow from say .150 to .450 and then back down the lobe again, that's just a start, if you want to make it more complex [and accurate] you'll need to factor in the number of degrees the cam will stay at that lift to weight the data, kind of like calculating your GPA, getting the weight based on credit hours of a course etc. I've seen a lot of great flowing heads over the years lose power despite flowing way more than stock due to lift of the cam and the time spent at those lift numbers not making up for the loss at lower lifts (under .300 for instance). Now the second point is an importance that varies with each setup. And that has to do with the convergence of the ports just before the valve seat. Why is this important? Well because when the piston travels back up the bore the intake valve will be on it's way back to the valve seat, but before that happens, you get an increase in cylinder pressure which typically on heads opened up at the valve throat slow or even cause reversion in the intake. Now this happens on pretty much all motors to a degree but it becomes [at times] an issue with very intensely ported valve throats. A skinnier valve throat will probably show less flow on a flow bench, 15 sometimes 30 cfm less! However since air is essentially a spring what this actually does is causes the pressure at the back of the valve to go up. So you are literally trading cfm, for pressure. Now like any translation it isn't an exact transfer of energies, but the loss of say 20 cfm not only isn't a whole lot at max lift, but the benefits are two fold, one nearly equalizing the loss in flow, and the other to improve torque in upper, mid, and lower rpms. So like boost, when CFM is limited, increasing air density or pressure is just the result of trying to force more air in during limited CFM environment. So we lose flow on the bench, but during an intake event, basically all that happens is the momentum of the air makes up the actual o2 throughput by causing pressure to go up, now there are some losses here, thats why we try to go for NO restriction right? But, since we're talking about JUST the convergence point of the intake port the short 1 inch restriction doesn't translate into much power loss. Now for the part that increases power, you might be able to see where this is going. Since you have a much higher pressure at the back of the valve, cylinder reversion is often eliminated, and will actually cause the cylinder to fill for a much longer time even though the piston is still traveling up. This also improves exhaust scavenging as well since typically the exhaust valve will be open for a portion of this time as well, over all increasing cylinder filling...
#3 Knife edged splitters actually INCREASE turbulence, do not let anyone else tell you otherwise, it's an old wives tale that it improves flow, it does not. It might look like that on a flow bench because you're making the orifice larger, but on a dyno it can cause unequal flow during some point of the RPM event. This is when you start seeing weird dips or having a bit more knock in this RPM window than you wanted to, or actually have it effect everywhere.
#4 Fuel atomization. I'm not sure if I can really see by the pics but it's important to know that you MUST shroud the injector nozzle from air flow. If you do not do this the spray pattern of the injector has not had time to propagate and you will get what looks like the difference b/t a really crappy meth nozzle that looks like a stream setting on a spray bottle, versus a nice atomized mist as you see well, on a good meth setup or similar to the setting on a spray bottle set to - you guessed it... mist.
Now I do know the LD9 has one of GM's BEST flowing heads, which is the reason why I was an LD9 proponent when everyone thought the 3.1 or then the 3.4 was the next greatest thing - which it wasn't so I've been around a bit.
I have one last bit of advice. The LD9 can improve from porting by a decent amount, but a simple clean up of the ports, and a proper valve job will pick up more average flow over a reasonable cam profile than this beautiful piece of workmanship (and I say that with all due respect, again you have some masterful craftsmanship, but a sculptor does not necessarily make a good fluid dynamics specialist.)
So if you want to make more power that anyone with a stock cam or race cam can see, send your LD9 head to someone like Headgames heads, they do everything by hand, and focus on where it counts most (on modern heads) the valve seat area.
thats all great usefull info but u know whose head gave steve lockett his fastest pass in either one of his neons............. it wasnt the red one with daves head on it, it was the black one with mine. ive seen daves work and its really good dont get me wrong. but dont come into my thread and start telling everyone to send there stuff to him cause he is all that is great wghen it comes to porting heads. all the (im a badass look what i know) stuff above is something u would know if ur a fluid dynamics engineer or something to that effect (im assuming u are since u said it) but u dont need to be one to port a head. now this particular head would be ideal for a high hp turbo setup hence the title "race head protoype". i knew those were quench pads in the combo chambers and i removed it and the rest of the material around the seats to unshroud the valves i thought that was pretty obvious. what idiot wouldnt know that the compression was lowered by doing that. i also know about the blunt and knifed divider argument and ive seen no adverse effects from knifing it so thats how my heads get ported. now im gonna finish this head and find somebody to set some reacords with it to prove how well it will works since basically ur saying its not going to.
mike
i make neons go fast
well i need a head now...... mantapart 1 is junk see
MP-62 Intercooled 2.9" Pulley
ammfab wrote:thats all great usefull info but u know whose head gave steve lockett his fastest pass in either one of his neons............. it wasnt the red one with daves head on it, it was the black one with mine. ive seen daves work and its really good dont get me wrong. but dont come into my thread and start telling everyone to send there stuff to him cause he is all that is great wghen it comes to porting heads. all the (im a badass look what i know) stuff above is something u would know if ur a fluid dynamics engineer or something to that effect (im assuming u are since u said it) but u dont need to be one to port a head. now this particular head would be ideal for a high hp turbo setup hence the title "race head protoype". i knew those were quench pads in the combo chambers and i removed it and the rest of the material around the seats to unshroud the valves i thought that was pretty obvious. what idiot wouldnt know that the compression was lowered by doing that. i also know about the blunt and knifed divider argument and ive seen no adverse effects from knifing it so thats how my heads get ported. now im gonna finish this head and find somebody to set some reacords with it to prove how well it will works since basically ur saying its not going to.
mike
I wasn't telling you that stuff, I was speaking to the forum. Didn't mean to step on your toes there bud. I don't agree with some of your porting methods, but I love your technique. I guess anyone could simply tell you what it is they want you to do with their head, and you could simply do as they ask.
I also didn't say the head "wasn't going to work well" I'm saying there are things that you could have avoided to make it better is all. I was also mentioned to others on here, not to get all dreamy eye'ed and bolt on a race head to a stock car thinking it's going to make a lot more power, because it likely won't (might, but may not).
In any event, good luck, and I'll stop by to see the results.
well i really didnt have a problem with any of the tips u posted it was that last part where u said to the forum, if u want it done right send it to dave. can u kind of see where that may have bothered me a little. i wouldnt sell somebody a head until they told me what they're plans are and what they are wanting to do with it. if they planned on doing just bolt on build for a nice peppy DD i would suggest a street port. im not trying to get a boat load of money out of people selling them things they dont need, i dont do that kind of stuff. i always suggest what i think would suit them best, if they want more and insist on it then fine ill do it but i gave them my thoughts on it first in case the results are not what they imagined u know.
tyler is that all thats wrong with that head cause i can fix that no problem and then port it if thats what u want. also what head is that??? it looks just like a dohc neon combo chamber and thats no exaggeration.
mike
i make neons go fast
Send me a race head to test!
Well i have spares to use. Its a Stock LD9 head just P & P from mantapart it but yea thats all whats wrong from what i can see
ammfab wrote:well i really didnt have a problem with any of the tips u posted it was that last part where u said to the forum, if u want it done right send it to dave. can u kind of see where that may have bothered me a little. i wouldnt sell somebody a head until they told me what they're plans are and what they are wanting to do with it. if they planned on doing just bolt on build for a nice peppy DD i would suggest a street port. im not trying to get a boat load of money out of people selling them things they dont need, i dont do that kind of stuff. i always suggest what i think would suit them best, if they want more and insist on it then fine ill do it but i gave them my thoughts on it first in case the results are not what they imagined u know.
tyler is that all thats wrong with that head cause i can fix that no problem and then port it if thats what u want. also what head is that??? it looks just like a dohc neon combo chamber and thats no exaggeration.
mike
MP-62 Intercooled 2.9" Pulley
mike - thats the OTHER LD9 head, the 99-02 larger combo chamber style without the quench pads.
what is you're opinion of valves for these heads? do you think completely flat faced or tuliped a bunch or a little is best? stock is tuliped big time. the valves you see up there in tyler's head are from sivalves.com, the ones 99% of people here use.
also, what is opinion of going 1mm oversized on them? 2mm if possible?
what is you're opinion on head coatings?
lol sorry for the 20 questions but ive been getting into the cylinder heads pretty deep and would love to know more and get other peoples thoughts.
Underdog Racing
jmarks82 wrote:Send me a race head to test!
he said set records....jk
R.I.P. Brian Klocke, you will never be forgotten
Boosted2point4 wrote:jmarks82 wrote:Send me a race head to test!
he said set records....jk
Whats the highest whp with pump gas?
jmarks82 wrote:Boosted2point4 wrote:jmarks82 wrote:Send me a race head to test!
he said set records....jk
Whats the highest whp with pump gas?
not me that's for sure.
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh BURN!
hahahaahahahaahaha
any flow results yet mike?
Underdog Racing
