I would run 80lb injectors and 10:1 pistons. You will most likely need some meth with what ever pistons you run just to help keep the heat down.
Looking good!
Tinkles(KGM) wrote:TheSundownFire wrote:Whats the difference between a Harrop and a straight M62?
It is a third bigger and runs cooler. So more cooler air.
Bigger as in higher cubic inches per revolution? So then its not an M62? More like an M82? Haha.
TheSundownFire wrote:Tinkles(KGM) wrote:TheSundownFire wrote:Whats the difference between a Harrop and a straight M62?
It is a third bigger and runs cooler. So more cooler air.
Bigger as in higher cubic inches per revolution? So then its not an M62? More like an M82? Haha.
Yes. The M62 moves 1 liter of air and the HTV1320 moves 1.32 liters of air. The rotors are redesigned and are more efficient than the M62 rotors.
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Yes. The M62 moves 1 liter of air and the HTV1320 moves 1.32 liters of air. The rotors are redesigned and are more efficient than the M62 rotors.
Tinkles got it but basically the TVS moves more air per revolution, runs cooler, is more efficient and is quieter. In the vids I found on YouTube there is almost no whine.
Link to Eaton's page explaining the TVS rotor system
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I would run 80lb injectors and 10:1 pistons. You will most likely need some meth with what ever pistons you run just to help keep the heat down.
80lb injectors are like 850cc right? Looks like I will have to expand my injector search beyond the Injector Dynamics GP as they only have 750cc and 1000cc. Forgot to mention meth is in the build plans.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
As far as mounting locations, oil filter clearance and belt wrap, the short answer is I don't know. Going to play that by ear with the shop helping me install and tune it.
Injector Dynamics has a 885cc injector that fits GM LS motors, anyone know if those are compatible with a LD9? I'm really new to the injector game since I got free LSJ injectors a few years ago for the NA motor. Suggestions on injector makes and places to guy them?
PSN ID: Phatchance249
oil filter and belt wrap? how about radiator clearance? haha
Just to add to my previous posts, found a website
here, who's calculations show my 300-350 whp goal is more then attainable on 750cc injectors. Cobalt guys get into the low 300's on 60lbs (630cc) injectors so I am leaning toward the 750's if the GP price is still good. If I have to buy them retail I will go with the 850's they list for the GM LS V8's and the Cobalt motors to give myself more room to grow.
For another benefit of the TVS the following is taken from the
Cobaltss.net TVS FAQ:
64mm / 2.5" ~ 27.5 psi
70mm / 2.75" ~ 25 psi
75mm / 2.95" ~ 22.5 psi
80mm / 3.15" ~ 20 psi (standard pulley size)
85mm / 3.35" ~ 17.5 psi
89mm / 3.5" ~15psi
With this added info from an early adopter, "If you spin the motor high enough a 3.1 pulley will make 23psi. a 2.9 will make 25, and a 2.75 will make 26.5. 99% of the tvs owners will not spin their engines to 7900 to see this. i personally have seen 27psi out of the 2.75 pulley."
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So an LD9 will actually be spinning it faster than the LSJ crank pulley would.
The few tenth's of an inch wouldn't be drastically faster right?
Even with piping the charged air through a FMIC the path will be relatively short and combining that with the higher then normal boost for a roots supercharger I should get pretty good response. I figure something between a turbo and traditional roots setup.
Compressor map comparison:
M62
TVS 1320
PSN ID: Phatchance249
Turbo, but I was on 42.5lb injectors (440cc) and made 323/285.Duty cycle was not even close to 80% either. You might be overkilling your search for injectors. Some 60lb injectors should be more than enough for you.
Thanks Vincent and Chris, I think my mistake on the injectors was going off what the cobalt guys were doing forgetting their motor is really quite different.
I have sent Harrop a message inquiring about mounting the charger upside down but I don't anticipate problems as its a fully sealed unit.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
You do have to run larger injectors then what you would use if you were say turbo though. Vince was able to get 323 hp turboed but supercharged you would need closer to 60's.
I asked the question a while back and comes down to the fact that superchargers are less efficient, and also rob the engine of power to run as well.
So if I was going to follow anyone on injector size it would be the cobalt guys. When it comes to ecos their setup is more efficient then the L61 with the addition of the cams and larger tb and other things im sure.
To get 350 whp I am willing to bet you will need 80 lb injectors. They cost $30 more than 60's so why skimp? I will never undersize anything because I know I will always be looking for more and that will never end! lol
Definitely not going to undersize things when it comes to proper fueling. I was contemplating going all the way to 1000cc's and thats the mistake I was referring to. I have pretty much decided on going with the 750's (71lbs) which should get me to the mid 300's comfortably if cobalt guys are getting there with 60lbs injectors.
I finally got ahold of my machinist today and it was good news he hadn't done the torque plate and boring of the block out to the specs we had decided for the NA build. So I am going to save some money on the machining bill, makes the wife happy, but he is swamped with race season and won't get to my stuff for a month or two. So not going to be much progress on fitment and belt wrap for a few months.
Next step is finding an intercooler, suggestions on size, kind and where to buy?
PSN ID: Phatchance249
I will sell you my hahn intercooler off my cobalt!
That looks nice, no support cutting and it fits behind the bumper? PM me the price.
Been doing some research and considering doing something like
this:
PSN ID: Phatchance249
external heat exchanger? that would be pretty boss as opposed to the longer tubing run you would need to make with a frontmount, but looking at the pics, you gotta make that run anyway and after you find a good spot to mount it too,
Ok doing some research, there is a 2.2 eco that has a harrop tvs, and a meth kit, but thats all and the kid is pissed everyone on his @!#$ about no exhaust haha...wonder y? maybe his setup is bogus without a better exhaust flow, but that sux eco got there first..
anyway I cannot see why the mounting plan won't work, all of eaton's info shows no issues as its all sealed and 'pumped' through anyway, and if you really want to confirm just see what zzp has to say on it, if there is somewhere I can think off hand to trust it's those guys, and besides they do sell the TVS chargers as well as use/install/tune them
strat81 wrote:TVS cavalier...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue9jrl4PAy0
it has been done, just not on an LD9.
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Ok doing some research, there is a 2.2 eco that has a harrop tvs, and a meth kit, but thats all and the kid is pissed everyone on his @!#$ about no exhaust haha...wonder y? maybe his setup is bogus without a better exhaust flow, but that sux eco got there first..
ya don't say??
btw, the harrop powered cav I posted the vid link of runs 12's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzmT4kC-FsI
Never said I was or wanted to be the first but thanks for posting the vid. I am suprised some of the Eco guys haven't thrown a TVS on their GMPP kits.
Tracking # says I have goodies waiting for me at home, I'll post up after I get off work.
PSN ID: Phatchance249
Well considering that my used TVS cost more than my S/C kit, I can understand. But I also believe that some people are just waiting for someone else to do it 1st and provide feedback incase there are any issues. Not to mention most eco guys would need to swap pistons and rods to really have fun with it.
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Im contemplating trying it on the stock motor......once I have another lined up anyways
i ultimately plan to run a harrop but i need to get the bottom end taken care of first... lack of funds means a long slow build for me.
Just a small update today. The supercharger came today and pleased it looks in pretty good condition. Mcmoney's adjustable cam gear set also came last week. I also decided to run Injector Dynamics 750cc injectors, hopefully I can still get Scott's GP price. To round out the fuel upgrades I still need a Racetronix fuel pump and an AFPR, already got the adapter from Mike's GP.
For the intercooler, after mocking something up and looking at it on the car I don't think my idea of using a liquid-to-air intercooler is going to fit. I will probably go the FMIC route but final decision will be made down the road once everything gets mounted and we see where things sit.
With the extra expenses going supercharged is creating I decided to try and re-use the JE 9:1 pistons my spare motor came with. I'm having a local shop cut them down by 0.090" measured at the piston shoulder which should only cut about 0.010 from the center. This is needed to keep the pistons in the bores because my Ti rods are for a Quad and measure 0.096" longer. If it works should result in a CR just shy of 10:1 with a 0.074 HG. I am also going to coat the piston tops in a thermal barrier coating and the skirts in an anti-friction coating to help protect them. Of course all clearances will be checked before the motor is ever fired but the math suggests it will work.
Pictures:
Anyone know if I can use the MAP sensor this came with?
Kinda random during a engine build but it was my color and price was right:
Had it for a while but never posted pictures, 13lbs:
PSN ID: Phatchance249
Hey I remember that rear lip!
Glad you got it ok!
Now put it on your car right meow.
Build looks interesting, will be watching!
