How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System - Page 11 - Boost Forum

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Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Monday, September 27, 2010 7:39 PM
ok i have a question, i have a built h.o motor, im using the timing chain housing from a 95 which has the fitting on it that goes to the a/o seperator, but im also using the timing chain cover from an older quad that has the tube coming out of it that goes to the a/o sep, right now i have the whole in the housing closed off, but what im wondering is could i leave all the stock pcv parts in place, and just run a line from the port on the timing chain housing, to a catch can then to the intake pipe for my turbo. would this solve the problem or at least help? the catch can would still see vacuum and it would be venting the housing right ?


if it can't win a race it better win a show

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 5:44 PM
[*] so many pages....sorta like the above, but unboosted. Do you think I could run from the timing cover(pressure area, not at valve cover fresh air port), to a catch can with a breather? I really don't want to route this back into the intake or valve cover. Experiment to see if it will stop carbon and "sludge" build-up.
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 6:25 PM
disrespectedz24 wrote:

[*] so many pages....sorta like the above, but unboosted. Do you think I could run from the timing cover(pressure area, not at valve cover fresh air port), to a catch can with a breather? I really don't want to route this back into the intake or valve cover. Experiment to see if it will stop carbon and "sludge" build-up.


Which car and motor? Your profile shows 2 cars.



FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 7:04 PM
sorry! I havent updated the vehicles since i joined, i think.
98 Z24 2.4L TC
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 7:11 PM
disrespectedz24 wrote:

sorry! I havent updated the vehicles since i joined, i think.
98 Z24 2.4L TC


even as a na LD9, put the catch can between the oil/air seperator on the block and the inlet on the intake. This should keep you from getting stuff in the intake.



FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:08 PM
Well, what about hooking it the way I suggested. Will it work? how can I delete the oil/ air separator? Just make a flat piece of steel plate and bolt it in place of the o/a separator?
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:22 PM
disrespectedz24 wrote:

Well, what about hooking it the way I suggested. Will it work? how can I delete the oil/ air separator? Just make a flat piece of steel plate and bolt it in place of the o/a separator?


why do you want to delete the oil/air seperator?

Why not use the system the way it was designed?



FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 9:20 PM
trying yo prevent any carbon or sludge build-up in engiine
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 07, 2012 10:21 PM
disrespectedz24 wrote:

trying yo prevent any carbon or sludge build-up in engiine


Doing it either way will not prevent carbon build up. Do it as I stated earlier it will prevent oil vapor from going back in the intake (as long as you get a real catch can).



FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Sunday, April 08, 2012 5:29 AM
I am wokdering this as well. I am wondering if you cant delete the oil/air separator. I was thinking about doing so and taking the hose off the timing chain cover and venting this to a catch can with a breather.

Mark


http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Sunday, April 08, 2012 7:20 AM
Since this is just an experiment for now before I setup a couple other cars this way, I bought one of those $20 ebay canisters with the nylon level indicator on the side. I'm going to fish some brillo pad in there before i install it.
As for why I want to delete the oil separator; it stems from reading some posts. Amazing how the A/O is just a baffle system, but it seems to block up and cause oil consumption, so why leave it in the mix...?
I'll be running mobil1 synthetic, unless there is a cheaper synthetic like Castrol or something. Cost effective just because I put @3000mi on a month to month and a half. It really shouldn't blacken or sluge up if changed every 3-5k, but I'm trying to prevent just the same. My uncle's 90(?) protege has @350k miles on it and taking the valve cover off is an amazing surprise. The inside of the car is filthy, the inside of the engine-spotless! I gotta say, that made me a believer in the synthetic.

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:44 AM
And Mark, yeah, same setup I'm lookin at. I figure, why put the crap back into the engine. Brand new factory pcv systems get build-up. I atone that to mostly going from valve to intake, but in my eyes, even with a catch can, the "vapors" will still have oil in it, so eventually you'll still have the same regurgitated gunk going back in through the intake line. So, if the line from the cover is crankcase pressure, you don't need the vacuum side. The vacuum side was strictly for emissions purposes and maybe a small argument for fuel economy. On that note, gunked up engines do not have good fuel economy.
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Sunday, April 08, 2012 1:28 PM
The oil consumption you speak of should go awy with a catch can doing it the stock way.

I have been running a cheap eBay catch can for a good 4-5 years and it has had no oil build up in the intake , and oil consumption dropped.

You will get a decent amount of oil coming out of the timing chain housing, so I could see more oil consumption if you delete the oil/air separator. If you leave it in you allow the oil another chance to get back to where it belongs, but yes some will still get past the oil/air separator, but not as much as coming out of the timing chain housing.



FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:07 PM
Now that I am going boosted I have been reading up on the PCV system and how to keep it working properly with boost. What I'm considering going with is:

But what I'm confused about is why the red section is needed. The check valve in the red line makes it only work when the manifold is in vacuum and is necessary to keep from boosting the PCV system but the green is always in vacuum even if your in boost so I am failing to see why two sources are needed especially when one only works part time. I understand there is a port in the stock manifold that goes directly into the #3 port and the HO manifold blocks it but why do we have this urge/need to keep two vacuum sources for the system?


PSN ID: Phatchance249

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:40 PM
Add2Meth-Are you running anything inside of your can? It seems to me that even with a can after the A/O, if the A/O goes badm its going to start working back into the intake stream after going through the can anyway. I wonder which way to try first. I'm sure it would be awhile for the A/O to go bad on a freshly rebuilt engine that I just cleaned, but my can has a drain. i could bypass the A/O and just go to the can. If I start realizing I'm filling the can quickly, I can put the A/O back into the mix. Hmmm.....
On the other hand, the A/O then can then intake is the way that seems to make more sense other than if the A/O fails.
The thing I dont like about the eBay can, is the in/out ports are side by side on the top. would be better farther apart on can and maybe a divided wall in between. yes, easy answer, "spend more $" LOL.

I think I'm going to get the engine done. Then install the can with a mix of our ideas. I'll leave the A/O in, then the can, then a breather(no line to intake) and see how that goes. Would be cool to have the space to make the drain the return back into the block instead of the A/O.

Shawn---I'd really have to go back and read the thread to remember why the scenarios were drawn up, but it clearly states in the pic above to remove the red line. I dont like the green line because if you're boosting that much oil or vapor back into the turbo intake you're running that crap thru the turbo unit....
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Monday, April 09, 2012 5:00 AM
the A/O can't really go bad. Have you looked at it? It is a very simple part. Unless broken (which would only happen during install or maybe a wreck). Currently no I have nothing else inside my catch can. I want to get a better one.





FU Tuning



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:15 AM
Amazing, 3 years later and people still don't understand the basics behind the above system.

Change it up all you'd like - it's your car. You're definitely complicating something extremely simple.

I'll give you one tip though - do you honestly think the turbo intake at idle has more vacuum going through it than the manifold itself? Or even at partial throttle? Do you really think oil will make it through the air oil separator AND a baffled catch can?

Do what you like - this was simply a guide to help people. This system managed to help three turbo LD9's at 18-22 psi completely stop losing oil, so I'm pretty satisfied in how it works.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:31 AM
Also bear in mind you are looking at an edited image of the original design which is lacking a check valve.



The original design is more complicated - that one is simplified. Regardless the point is the manifold is under FAR more vacuum at idle/part throttle than the turbo intake.

This is how the GMSC system works with its bypass valve area. Ever notice that IT has two PCV lines? One before the TB and one on the supercharger?

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:51 PM
I have not seen a GMSC kit, didn't know they ran it like that.


PSN ID: Phatchance249

Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:32 AM
I don't know if the "difficult" statement was directed toward me or not, but I'm not trying to make it difficult. I'm simply trying to promote different ways of thinking and installing this setup. What baffles me is that all I read is how the A/O has gone bad, but in my 15yrs as a tech, I've never seen one go bad. Just figured it could be taken out of the equation.
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:44 AM
disrespectedz24 wrote:

I don't know if the "difficult" statement was directed toward me or not, but I'm not trying to make it difficult. I'm simply trying to promote different ways of thinking and installing this setup. What baffles me is that all I read is how the A/O has gone bad, but in my 15yrs as a tech, I've never seen one go bad. Just figured it could be taken out of the equation.


where have you read it has gone bad? I have never heard of it. I have heard of them getting clogged, which I good catch can setup would likely resolve that issue (after cleaning it out).



FU Tuning




Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:29 AM
Because my intake manifold has no PCV port this is how I am going to run my system.

From the timing chain cover I am going to a catch can, my A/O Sep I am blocking off besides one port. From there the other side will go to the catch can as well. From the catch can I will run a line to the intake manifold. Pretty simple.

Mark


http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com/
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:09 PM
Well, here's just one post that tells people that this is the cause and to replace it. It's not the main one i was referring too, but i cannot seem to remember what i was searching exactly when i came across it.: A/O separator

And dont worry, I agree; it's a cleanable baffle, but some don't get that. My deal is why leave it in the mix when you can just block it off. I guess for me, since this is a DD and mine is always the last to be worked on; it would be nice to not have to find the time to remove an intake to clean this.
Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Saturday, April 28, 2012 10:31 PM
This is how mine is run:


I still have oil leaking from the cam tower gaskets (and at least one bolt head area)... if I take the oil cap off, you can feel the pulsing air from the crankcase still while the engine is idling. I just cleaned out the PCV baffle and all hoses... so no blockages whatsoever..

It seems like I need more vent locations to let all this pressure escape...



Re: How To: LD9/Ecotec Boosted PCV System
Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:22 PM
Old thread, but just a thought I've always had:

The red line in the image directly above this post, doesn't that cause a vacuum leak?
The intake manifold is sucking in air from the PCV baffle, but the PCV baffle isn't a sealed unit, it's vented via the green line, so unmetered air can enter the intake manifold. Especially if the pressure from the crankcase is making its way into the manifold (the intent). I suppose the stock PCV setup does the same thing with the port through the head/block that leads to the PCV baffle as well though and apparently there's no issue.

I still have the same problem with excess crankcase pressure causing oil leaks anywhere it can. Quart a week. Haven't had the chance to take off my timing cover and punch a few large holes and run hoses from them to vent better.. annoying.




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