P0300 +m62 - Page 3 - Boost Forum

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Re: P0300 +m62
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:25 PM
Ok, I've gone through a 6-pack researching into this more. Here's the specs you should know:

Lucas 42 lb/hr injectors:
Static Flow Rate: 42.29 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) or 320gm/min
Static Flow Rate: 48.83 lb/hr @ 58.0PSI (300kPa) or 370gm/min
Dynamic Flow Rate: 9.96 gm/pulse - 2.5ms pulse width and 10ms repetition rate @ 43.5PSI
Coil Resistance: 15.9 Ohms / High Impedance

Racetronix W-body pump; we all know the specs.

Aeromotive LT1 AFPR:
Fuel pressure is set to approximately 64psi at idle (mechanical aeromotive[marshall] gauge installed on schrader valve)


I read on LS1 forums, and a few others, that people were having the same idle trouble with a 2.0ms IPW using these injectors. With that being said, the dynamic flow rate listed for these injectors is 9.96 gm/pulse @ 2.5ms, leading me to believe that 2.5ms is the smallest IPW they calculate/recommend. Not only that, but this figure is with a fuel pressure of 43.5psi. If that is indeed the case, then asking for a 1.6ms IPW with an additional 20.5psi is way out of spec. If you hammer it out, at 64psi these injectors are actually flowing more like 53.9 lb/hr.

After reading all of that information it's no wonder I'm having the trouble I'm having. It makes perfect sense that I'd only see problems at idle. Currently, I'm seeing about 80% maximum duty cycle on these injectors. Next time I get a chance to drive down there I'll get in touch with Ryan and see if we can lower the fuel pressure and ask more out of the injectors. That should at least put me in the right direction, if not resolve the issue totally. I have 4 extra injectors in case one decides to fail prematurely from the abuse, so I'm really not worried about it too much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:35 PM


"In Oldskool we trust"

Re: P0300 +m62
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:30 PM
You can always grab a set of 60's and that will get you into a safe duty cycle.

Or get a meth kit and use that for the extra fueling.
Re: P0300 +m62
Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:00 PM
Philly D wrote:

You can always grab a set of 60's and that will get you into a safe duty cycle.

Or get a meth kit and use that for the extra fueling.

Looks like meth is the way to go. Maybe I'll drop to a 2.8 or something at the same time.

Thing with 60's is a lot of people who run them even on stock pressure have the same idling problems just because they're too big.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:27 AM
This is more what I was talking about (Fuel Injector Specs Page). At the bottom is a link to the spec sheet. The dynamic flow pulse time is different from the turn on/turn off and minimum pulse.



Re: P0300 +m62
Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:36 AM
Right... I had a hard time finding that for these injectors. They're Lucas 42 lb/hr, pn: 01D030B



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:44 PM
I was just rereading your above post, if you are already peaking around 80% IDC, you aren't going to want to lower your fuel pressure. Lower pressure will up your IDC and will put you in danger of the injectors being constantly on at that demand range, I see larger injectors in your future. Correct pulse width control trumps atomization so a larger injector pressured down for better control would be a better bet I would think. Depending your your future plans, I don't think you need to step up all the way to 60's, 55 range might be sufficient.



Re: P0300 +m62
Wednesday, June 19, 2013 4:17 PM
I'm just worried that bigger injectors are going to give me the same problems, even with less pressure. I think I'll try a meth kit next and lower the pressure to something reasonable. Hopefully that will give me enough extra fueling on the top end for this hungry motor while lowering the fuel delivery at idle and expanding the pulse width. Meth could kill 2 birds with one stone so if it doesn't work out I'll still use it for the timing and IAT advantages and grab bigger injectors at that point. I think Deka makes 52's, at least I know someone does.

The only concern is that the midrange may suffer before the meth kicks in. In which case, I'll just have spray earlier and waste more meth.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Thursday, June 20, 2013 5:23 AM
edit......I cant read

Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 20, 2013 5:24 AM
Re: P0300 +m62
Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:17 AM
Oh definitely, I'm just saying I may have to set the boost switch lower than normal, like 4 psi or something. But that's just speculation anyway.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Thursday, June 20, 2013 1:04 PM
you could get a progressive controller and set it to start spraying at 1-2 psi, really... then it ramps it up to max boost from there.

i was running mine set at about 3 psi but kept running into issues with it spraying just casually driving it so i bumped it to 5psi. (10psi max) and that cured the issue but hurt my iat's at WOT thats for sure.

meth will help your setup a lot i think. i know my m45 with no heat exchanger loves it. cant imagine the kind of iat's you would see. probably well below ambiant, actually.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: P0300 +m62
Thursday, June 20, 2013 2:19 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

i was running mine set at about 3 psi but kept running into issues with it spraying just casually driving it so i bumped it to 5psi. (10psi max) and that cured the issue but hurt my iat's at WOT thats for sure.

I've never worked with these kits before so this is a n00b question. Can you explain to me what it means to have a 10psi max boost switch? For instance, the kit I'm looking at has 2 options for a boost switch, 2-10psi or 6-30psi. Does that mean after 10 psi it won't work or anything 10psi and above it will be activated(if I set it to 10)? I run to about 13psi right now so I'm kind of in the middle. I just don't want to get the higher switch and not be able to spray before 6psi.

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

meth will help your setup a lot i think. i know my m45 with no heat exchanger loves it. cant imagine the kind of iat's you would see. probably well below ambiant, actually.

I'm looking into an ice box for my h/e setup as well



"In Oldskool we trust"

Re: P0300 +m62
Friday, June 21, 2013 10:29 AM
ice box ftw. im definitely gonna see about making one work for me with steigemeier's snout "venom cooler" some day.

as for the switch, hmmm thats something i honestly dont know on. see the switch i got with my snow performance kit works on activation point only, so you can basically just set it to spray 100% at whichever boost you want. i dont know the max of it though... ive had it down to 1 psi and up as far as 7psi, so...

this really isnt the best way to inject meth. its more or less the most ghetto way and makes it much harder to tune for max performance if its just hog washing the cylinders all the time. a progressive controller is really where meth kits shine. you can dial it down down for low speed and mid range and it ramps it up to 100% from there.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: P0300 +m62
Friday, June 21, 2013 11:03 AM
I've been pondering this too but I think I'm just going to stick with the boost switch for now. I JUST made a deal for a brand new stage 1 snow performance kit on craigslist. 200 bucks! btw, the boost switch on that kit is from 2psi-15psi. Perfect for my current setup.

With the money I'm going to save on that I'm grabbing a ZZP IM to SC 1/2" spacer since it's already tapped and everything for this. Probably also pulley down to a 2.8 or 2.9, you know....just so the belt fits and all



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Friday, June 21, 2013 11:18 AM
lol i would man. overspin that whore. thats what im doing and it doesnt seem to mind. i actually just took possession of an M62 intake manifold that im gonna try and adapt the laminova core section into an m45 with... i think it will. take a lot of slice and dice but in the end i believe that 20-30* decrease in IAT's will most certainly help. that and well, i wont NEED meth injection then. id still use it but at that point its not the end of the world for cooling if i dont, so thats good.

and good deal on that snow kit. i think my stage 1 was like 325? i also got 4 gallons of "boost juice" with it.

oh, and look into snow's "nitro booster" and let me know what you think.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: P0300 +m62
Saturday, June 22, 2013 7:11 AM
If you're going to cut up an intake just plumb in an air/air setup and avoid all the heat soak bs that you get with water/air. I know a guy with an lsj cobalt up here that did it and it works really, really well. You'd think there would be huge boost lag but there isn't. In fact, it made the same HP on a dynojet before an after.

As for pulleys, the only thing holding me back is the belt situation. I really don't want to get a smaller belt and cut a rib off. So then I have to find different pulleys and tensioners, etc. All of which are a PITA to do.

And jesus, throwing nitro into the mix!? That's insane.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, June 22, 2013 7:14 AM


"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:43 AM
insane yes... cool... hell yes.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: P0300 +m62
Sunday, June 23, 2013 11:37 AM
There are two kinds of meth injection control. The progressive type controller has a start psi, where the pump is run a minimum duty cycle, and a max psi, where the pump is all in. The other kind is a simple hobbs switch - on/off at a certain pressure. On a supercharged car, the progressive control is a lot of extra money for little benefit, since you have to really drive with a purpose in keeping the car between vacuum and full boost. The hobbs switch set at 6-8psi or so on an m62 car will work just great and save ~100$ on the price of the kit. And like we talked about, 2-3 gph nozzle size is a good place to start for some extra cooling and octane. Much bigger than that, and the amount of fuel that has to be pulled to correct for the meth makes it dangerous should it clog or stop working. I ran an AEM meth flow gauge plumbed right before the nozzle to make sure it was working all the time.

The mix you run is a big factor too. Water, for all intents and purposes, doesn't compress, so in very small amounts, the theory is a huge octane boost (big delay in pre-ignition). But water does not burn either, so that's a power killer. Water cools more per volume. Methanol obviously is also an octane booster and air charge cooler, but it's a passive fuel source, so it has to really be tuned for.



Re: P0300 +m62
Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:26 PM
Y3llowCav wrote:


Thing with 60's is a lot of people who run them even on stock pressure have the same idling problems just because they're too big.


No complaints with my idle here with my 60s.




Re: P0300 +m62
Monday, June 24, 2013 8:25 AM
The smallest nozzle with the kit I bought is 2.77 gal/hour; that should put me where I wanna be. After thinking about it for awhile spraying pre-sc may be the way to go. The original thought was to spray the mixture right above the laminova cores to get the coolest charge possible. But the benefits of cooling the rotors down and keeping the tb clean over time may out weigh everything else. Plus, that saves me 125 bucks not having to buy the zzp spacer.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: P0300 +m62
Monday, June 24, 2013 4:18 PM
^Indeed.

Spraying before will make the charger cold to the touch versus what it is now...hot as hell after some pulls.

I know some guys on CSS run much much higher nozzle sizes as well. But then it becomes like Oldskool said a bit more risky.
Re: P0300 +m62
Tuesday, June 25, 2013 7:52 AM
i will second oldskool on that..... i am using a massive 525cc nozzle and my AFR will DROP from low 13's to low 10's instantly using it. i need to pull some fuel and get it working properly but when i do its going to scream. i actually called snow performance about this and he said and i quote. "as long as the engine isnt bogging down and takes that much meth without issue then more power to you, literally. just remove the nessesarily fuel in the stock pcm to accomodate and look out, that thing is going to FLY." i took this with great enthusiasm LOL but yeah, i tried the much smaller 175cc nozzle in the beginning and it would barely help. crusing IAT's near 110-120 and it would shoot up to 160-170 and hover there throughout the pull. i dropped the 525cc nozzle in 10 minutes later (even after it was heat soaked) with crusing temp to around 130 then did a pull.... it climbed to around 140, then dipped backed down to around 130. but like i said, it kills the AFR, thus killing performance. the car actually pulls much harder even with 200* IAT's with the low 13's afr then it does with the cooler IAT's and much richer low 10's AFR.

i have an interceptor gauge set on IAT reading. i highly suggest getting one of these gauges to monitor your IAT's. i absolutely love watching mine. its a great real time indicator if the meth is ACTUALLY working or not, too. i also have an "on" LED that lets me know when the pump gets power but that only lets you know if its getting power, not if its actually working or not.

i actually want to step down to say a 375cc nozzle in the meth kit, run 100% methanol and nitro methane mixed (because nitro methane will not mix with water) and run a SECOND system/nozzle tapped right into the front of the blower via a soft plug that sprays only water. this way i can also purge right before a run and get maximum cooling affect.



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!

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