Engine build vs GM long block - Boost Forum

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Engine build vs GM long block
Friday, January 03, 2014 7:24 PM
Putting this here because it would be boosted.

I have been contemplating an engine build for years and years and years now. Just been doing a lot of research.

Was as the dealer today, and they had a ZERO mile 2004 2.2 ecotec sitting there. I asked the parts guy how much it was, and he said 3000 OTD.

Now a build, with machine work, and parts and time and labor and building and all the hassle would probably cost me 6 or 7 grand for everything. Then I have to build it, and hope i got it right, and time it and blah blah blah. Talking block and head here. No warranty, or anything like that.

So knowing that my car ran a 13.9 on an old tired motor, with the GM flash, 3.0 pulley, and inter cooler, and a crappy driver (I missed a shift and revved out 3rd at the end of the track). I like my car where it is. I think that adding the 2.9 pulley is the FINAL pulley change I would do, and could POSSIBLY get me to 13.2 or faster as the car sits now. The only other thing I wold do is MAYBE meth add a E tune or partial E tune. The basics, IE: cooler plugs, intake header exhaust, proper injectors, and all that stuff would of course be done as well.

Now keeping all that in mind, knowing that a car in the high 12's what I desire, do you guys think that a BRAND NEW LONG BLOCK would be suitable for my desires? Would a build be better, or worth the extra money? What kind of power do you think a new crate motor could handle vs a built motor with a proper tune? Keep in mind, my goal is a 1/4 mile time, not a HP or torque number. I don't want a full on race car, but I want a car that people will be surprised with.




Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Friday, January 03, 2014 8:19 PM
That's probably a stock long block. If you build it yourself you can use custom parts and make it better.




On the inside my car looks like a fighter jet.
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 5:39 AM
For your goals. Buying that long block would be fine I think. very high 12's has been done on stock motor's.

Of course if you build it yourself you could bump the compression and make that goal easier. Then again you could s till do that on this long block. Change head gasket to get a small change in the compression.

With a real tune now I think you would be knocking on the door or your goal.

So I really think if you are being honest about your long term goals you would be happy with that motor.



FU Tuning



Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 6:47 AM
Rob Dotterer wrote:

That's probably a stock long block. If you build it yourself you can use custom parts and make it better.


I know this...Did you not rear my post?

Addicted to meth wrote:

For your goals. Buying that long block would be fine I think. very high 12's has been done on stock motor's.

Of course if you build it yourself you could bump the compression and make that goal easier. Then again you could s till do that on this long block. Change head gasket to get a small change in the compression.

With a real tune now I think you would be knocking on the door or your goal.

So I really think if you are being honest about your long term goals you would be happy with that motor.


I know i had seen stock motors in the 12's. I will be keeping the car in streetable shape. will have atleast both front seats...lol. I think that if i did the long block, all the supporting mods and a great dyno/street tune, that the motor would be reliable for a good long time. I have 145k on my stock motor right now and it has taken a beating for 4 years not since the blower was put on.



Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:04 AM
I'll chime in with my opinion. I'm looking into building a motor over the summer. Currently running a 2.9 and seeing 15psi. I don't think the motor will last as long as I'd like it to with the heat of the sc and rpm abuse it gets. And believe me it's been well taken care of. I've picked Fred Jr's brain at smg motoring about what I should do next. He felt with 100% certainty that I need to look into building a short block sooner than later. I'm inclined to believe him as he works with these motors every day.

If you're not running meth and(no offense intended) if the tune isn't spot on, it's going to knock/detonate. The stock bottom end won't stand up to that forever.

I get that this motor is brand new but imo it's not worth the money. If you want to push the stock bottom end just keep popping in cheap junkyard motors until you're able to piece together a good build. They can be had so cheap out of a yard that it's worth it to go this route.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:31 AM
I would honestly build it if it were me and if you did alot of the work you could come in at a good price. Bump the compression with a set of pistons get some h beams have some crank work done polish the counter weights your self go stock bore so no block work there you could hone it you self after checking your bore to make sure no bore is needed port and polish the head your self and throw a set of cams in with a good header and exhaust port match your mani to the head and polish it up with a good set of injectors like what y3llow is using a 2.9 pulley and some blower work ie rotor coating brad knows a place that does it for $150 i believe polish it and round your outlet edges for a little smoother flow look into meth or a air to air custom set up and a great tune and you should have a strong engine that i would imagine that would make your high 12 dream a reailty and still be very daily driver able. You could pry be mid or low 12s with an agressive tune. The money saving is in doing the work if you feel comfertable its not that hard and very worth a shot just take your time do alot of reading and dont over think it


I Love My J ♡
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 9:30 AM
cody....punctuation please!!!! lol i can barely read that.



Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 9:36 AM
i just dont see the need in building a motor, if i dont NEED the build.

would a brand new not beaten on stock build motor take the power to run 12's, with a good tune?



Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 9:48 AM
Longevity will decrease significantlly if you plan to push that stock motor in the 12's and still daily drive it.

Building the engine isnt just to increase HP....but to "withstand" the abuse.


GMR has got nothing on this
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 9:51 AM
DOHC_tuner wrote:

Longevity will decrease significantlly if you plan to push that stock motor in the 12's and still daily drive it.

Building the engine isnt just to increase HP....but to "withstand" the abuse.

These are my thoughts exactly. You will definitely be able to make that kind of power/times on a stock motor it's just a question of longevity. A good tune will help a lot but I still see issues in the long run.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:04 AM
its not a daily anymore guys...its a fun. weekend. track. surprise people car




Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:47 AM
You need to figure out how much hp that your car will need to hit your goal. If it is over 250whp i strongly recommend building the engine. Yes plenty of people have made more on a stock eco and it held, but the fact is that that power is near the upper limits of the bottom end. I see the new stock engine as a waste of money. If you go with it, it's whole life will be spent being overreved and overpowered. Sure it will last for a few years, but it will eventually fail because it wasnt designed to hold that power or rpms in stock form.

My thoughts:
Eagle/Weisco 10:1 bottom end
GMPP or cryo treated oil pump gears
Ported head
Supertech 78# valvesprings
Comp Blower cams or Comp's Stage 2 intake & Stage 3 exhaust(A.K.A. the Stage 2 blower cams)

You wont break any power records with that build, but it will allow you to hit your goal without worries.




Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 10:49 AM
Tinkles(KGM) wrote:

You need to figure out how much hp that your car will need to hit your goal. If it is over 250whp i strongly recommend building the engine. Yes plenty of people have made more on a stock eco and it held, but the fact is that that power is near the upper limits of the bottom end. I see the new stock engine as a waste of money. If you go with it, it's whole life will be spent being overreved and overpowered. Sure it will last for a few years, but it will eventually fail because it wasnt designed to hold that power or rpms in stock form.

My thoughts:
Eagle/Weisco 10:1 bottom end
GMPP or cryo treated oil pump gears
Ported head
Supertech 78# valvesprings
Comp Blower cams or Comp's Stage 2 intake & Stage 3 exhaust(A.K.A. the Stage 2 blower cams)

You wont break any power records with that build, but it will allow you to hit your goal without worries.

This is pretty much my plan. Couldn't have said it better myself.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:27 PM
I third it.

That stock motor will be like throwing money away.

Its so close to the edge that WILL blow these motors to get your times.

I believe Airtonics was doing 12.9 on his and he was fully built and about 300whp. Do a mild build, and it will not cost you anywhere close to 6-7g. Maybe 4-5 tops.

Or do like me and look at doing a 2.4 hybrid swap.
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:05 PM
Sorry bout that evo. I get carried away and forget perouds exc. But yes even tho she wont be a daily, the last thing you want is to blow up a cupple thousand $$$$ engine. Just do a mild build like a cupple of us have put up, and know when you decide to drive it to work on a friday, take it to the track, or a sunday cruise that you wont be that guy pushing your ride. I would rather know my engine can take the beat down, than wounder if this WOT pull will be the glorious explosion or maybe the next time. Trust me i know, been there a few times lol :-)


I Love My J ♡
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Saturday, January 04, 2014 9:02 PM
I'm with philly... Look into a 2.4 hybrid.

Personally I want to run a le5 block with an lsj head. Get the right year le5 and you have a factory forged bottom end and the lsj cams are better timed for an s/c application. Pulley down, add some meth, and a proper tune and I think you'll have no problems reaching your goal. Depending on how savy you are, you could probably put the motor together for a grand or less.



Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Friday, January 24, 2014 6:29 AM
I'm with the build it people. Your prices for a build are at the top end of what you *could* spend on a long block build.

You should be able to build a solid long block for the same or less than the $3000 that you're looking at spending on a stock one. As mentioned earlier, building an engine means simply designing it to handle the power you plan on needing, not just building it to make power. You don't need to have the same parts that a 1200hp boosted monster uses if your goal is simply to get sub-13 second passes.





Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Friday, February 21, 2014 11:19 PM
Just build it. Plenty of room to grow if you ever decide to go snail.



ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician

Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Monday, February 24, 2014 1:29 PM
CaliforniaDomestics wrote:

Just build it. Plenty of room to grow if you ever decide to go snail.


the monster is alive. building is what i decided anyways. extra car now. can have the fire on jackstands in the garage for a full year.



Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Monday, February 24, 2014 1:35 PM
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Monday, February 24, 2014 2:59 PM
EvoFire wrote:

CaliforniaDomestics wrote:

Just build it. Plenty of room to grow if you ever decide to go snail.


the monster is alive. building is what i decided anyways. extra car now. can have the fire on jackstands in the garage for a full year.


Glad you decided this. I think that the forged parts will appreciate boost more so than the stock internals.





Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Thursday, March 06, 2014 6:39 AM
good choice on building it


RIP Cpl Derek Kerns And Cpl Robby Reyes
24th MEU VMM-261 (REIN) V22 Crewchiefs
11 April 2012 Morocco (African Lion)
Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Monday, March 17, 2014 4:49 PM
EvoFire wrote:

CaliforniaDomestics wrote:

Just build it. Plenty of room to grow if you ever decide to go snail.


the monster is alive. building is what i decided anyways. extra car now. can have the fire on jackstands in the garage for a full year.


Yep, still take the toy out from time to time to terrorize the city. I haven't been on this forum in forever though. I have PM's in my inbox from people from over a year ago that I never read till now. I am pretty regularly on several other forums for other platforms though. Newest toy consumes most of my time. Was just at Import Face-Off in Tuscon over the weekend with one of the other cars. Crazy to see how slow this forum is these days. I suppose after being on here for 12 years you see a lot of change.



ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician

Re: Engine build vs GM long block
Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:14 PM
CaliforniaDomestics wrote:

EvoFire wrote:

CaliforniaDomestics wrote:

Just build it. Plenty of room to grow if you ever decide to go snail.


the monster is alive. building is what i decided anyways. extra car now. can have the fire on jackstands in the garage for a full year.


Yep, still take the toy out from time to time to terrorize the city. I haven't been on this forum in forever though. I have PM's in my inbox from people from over a year ago that I never read till now. I am pretty regularly on several other forums for other platforms though. Newest toy consumes most of my time. Was just at Import Face-Off in Tuscon over the weekend with one of the other cars. Crazy to see how slow this forum is these days. I suppose after being on here for 12 years you see a lot of change.


yeah ive only been here 7 years and its changed alot. about to start the build for the fire. wanna help?



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