Yea, I'm actually going to switch it over to my MSD tach driver next weekend. I just wanted to install it there at first so if i came across any problems i'd have one less thing to worry about. The emanage has been in since monday, the car was driven monday, tuesday, and friday night for over 3 hours. Finally friday night i got the CEL related to the map problem and ended up in limp mode. I have another idea that I'll get to at the bottom.

One other "issue" I've noticed is the emanages injecter duty cycle calculation. Under normal driving everything looks chosher. But under hard accel I've noticed that the injector duty cycle is at 100% with no additional injection. IDK if this is ratedto my 1/2 real RPM signal, but i kinda doubt that it is since a lower rpm at the same injector pulse would actually = 1/2 the real duty cycle. T'm still analysing data to sort out exactly where the issue is, just wondering if anyone else has noticed 100% duty cycle. This is gonna be an issue when it comes time to add fuel since you can't add to 100%

Ok, not back on the map sensor issues. If you don't plan to use any airflow adjustment maps or injector correction then you shouldn't nesecerally need the emanage to be able to modify map voltage right? So y not just tap the map signal instead of spliceing into it. and just let the emanage map out wire go nowhere. I know this kinda sucks because you can't use the full potentiaa, but it's one way to eliminate the ECU codes. Hopefully theres another way around this.
I tried a anti stall clamp voltage at 1.15 V but forgot to datalog it to see if it was working. I'll have to get some data once the car is back togther.


<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~richnj221/smiley.gif>

Update: EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!!

I've successfully managed to get the E-Manage to stop freaking out!!! What did I do? I tried a smaller resistor to let more voltage through. I finally settled on a 330 Ohm resistor which allows the ECU to see a total of .75 volts at idle.

No more idle surging!

No more vacuum voltage drop!

No more P0107 code!

No more E-Manage red light!

I honestly couldn't be happier at the moment. I've driven 150 miles today to Lansing, Michigan from Detroit and back. On the way back not more than an hour ago, I raced a turbo 2.4 cavalier (redraptor) and deaccelerated numerous times from high rpms. This created a lot of vacuum. However, NO RED LIGHT!! WOOOO!!!!

Now that this is fixed, I suggest you all experiment with different resistors (330 Ohm works on a 2k+ LD9 with 2 Bar MAP and reflash.)

Jason, please update your webpage to reflect this new info. I'm sure it will help out a ton of people at this point.

Much thanks goes to Protomec for suggesting the method of correction. I honestly don't know what this community would do without you.


On a side note, I'll be tackling the same problem that is happening with SAFC owners on monday. Arnjolt is stopping by and we're gonna try and fix it on his heavily modified Ecotec. I'll put up another post regarding this issue then.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

nice work. I'll start in the same range that you did and see what happens. just out of curiosity where did you put the resistor in at.

Connect it in parallel between the green wire (MAP output) and the white wire (5 volt reference).


MAP Sensor
Green White
| |
| |
| 330 Ohm |
|-----^^^^^-------|
| Resistor |
| |
| |


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

so you added a resistor to which wire?...Before the emanage or after the emanage into the ecu?...green er white?

and where can u get a 330 ohm resistor like u said

and where can u get pins to use pin number 10 on the ecu for tach output haha thanx

<a href="www.daptronics.com">www.daptronics.com Huge Discounts on Electronics</a>

Sorry. Here ya go:

The wire is grey, not white (I was thinking of the e-manage wire)



You can find the resistor at any electronics store. They're like a 10th of a cent each. You'll probably have to buy a bunch together. Do yourself a favor and purchase a multipack with diffferent resistances from 10-1k ohm. Anymore than that shouldn't be needed.

Experiment. Try different resistors. I highly doubt my car is like everyone elses.

I hope this will all help everyone. Still no codes this morning!!!


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Mr Pute, how did you connect to pin #10, do you just poke out the orange rubber covering the hole? Is there a special pin?


Kyle

Absolutely not. You need to obtain a pin from a wiring harness. I've decided that if anyone wants one, get a hold of me on AIM (The Pute 2) and I'll send you one for $8. I've started hacking up a $120 wiring harness to fix other people's cars. I have no other use for it at this point and I'd like to at least cut my loss on the harness somehow. If you want a pin for pin 10, let me know. Thanks.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

This is GREAT!!!! This has pursuaded me to definately buy the e-manage for my air/fuel control.

so which wire is the grey one?....and should we put the resistor before the emanage er after jus before the cpu...why the grey wire haha sorry im still abit confused

should be

MaP----lightt green wire----cut-------now white wire------emanage-------now greeen-----back to lightt green----------cpu


where do we put it in there...hahah Thanx man ..ur lots of help "D

<a href="www.daptronics.com">www.daptronics.com Huge Discounts on Electronics</a>

You're NOT cutting any wire! You're adding the resistor between the grey and green wire on the MAP sensor connector.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

Update: I installed the 330 ohm resistor, and no warning light at all. I have yet to actually drive the car due to the weather here, but i did try revving it up and then letting if drop and it never set off the warning light on the e-manage. Also still no OBD codes. So as soon as the weather clears up i'll take it out and drive it and get it back on the dyno and see what happens.

New Problem! YAY!!

Started the car up this morning and let it idle as I scraped the 1/4 inch of ice off of it. Overnight, we had freezing rain dumped all over the place. At 7:00AM, the freezing rain turned into a heavy regular rain. I figured this would definitely be a test to whether or not my wiring would hold up under wet conditions. Turns out......it didn't. I soldered and heat shrinked everything as well. The problem is, the area of the car by the ecu gets hit with quite a bit of water when it's really wet outside. I wouldn't be surprised if everything in that fender is soaked.

As I get out on the road, things are great. Then I hit a puddle which effectively throw enough water into the wheel well to make the wiring short out I guess. Half way to work, after getting off of the freeway, I noticed my idle was at 2000rpm! Yikes. While driving along as well, I was misfiring pretty badly. Took the car out again at lunch and it seemed to get worse.

I somehow have to isolate all of my solder joints from each other. Heatshrink and electrical tape isn't doing enough. I'm thinking of taking some rubber cement or something and covering the heatshrink ends with it. That will prevent water from getting in the joints, which causes a short when everything is wet and bundled together.

Not a huge problem though I'm still pissed I have to take my front bumper off again. Whateva


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

are your wheel liners still in the car. The ecu and that really shouldn't be getting that wet to cause problems. Atleast you wouldn't think so. Thank goodness i never take my car out in the rain/snow. If it's not bright, warm, and sunny the car doesn't see beyond the garage door. But i luckily have 3 other vehicles to drive also.

HOW IS THE E MANAGE WHEN IT COMES TO IGNITION
i'M THINKIN OF GETTIN ONE TO CONTROL FUEL/IGNITION TIMMING

OOh I can give some input on this one!!! It works pretty darn good IMO. I have tried 2 different scenatios so far. 1: 2degree retard with a 75 shot. 2: a ramping advance for some all motor runs at the track. The 2 degree retard really woln't be noticed much since there's 75hp to make up for it. The advance on the other hand was interesting. I had a 8 - 10 - 12 degree advance starting at 2500 and hitting +12 at 3000 rpm. End result I was able to cut a solid 1/10th and gain about 1mph. I know theres no way to 100% prove it gave me any power but between the track data and 1/4 runs I'm pretty sure it helped a bit. Just don't drive around all the time with a 12deg advance in there. Also i have an egt gauge to keep an eye on cylinder temps.

Also the sub injector feature is somthing i don't hear many people talk about. I think the SDS EIC main unit costs around 360,I got my emnage + tool and harneses for just above 400. And I for all comparative porpuses have an EIC and very limited form of a MSD DIS( i know the MSD has alot of benifits over what the emanage can do, but if all you want is timeing retard for boost and youre going to run an eic for fuel then the emanage might very well be a very good alternative. Again this is just my opinion.

Ok I've once again rambled tooooo much.


<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~richnj221/smiley.gif>

Update: I can't stress more than enough that soldering, heat shrinking, AND waterproofing your connections is VERY IMPORTANT. Have to do all three. I did the first two, went through some water today, and the e-manage started shorting out. I'm lucky I didn't destroy anything.

My idle problem is now gone due to the fact that I waterproofed all of my connections.


<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">

does the emanage increase ignition voltage like the msd dis-2?? or can you only adjsut the timing on it?



-nick-
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Only timing.


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Exterminator

I have had the same problem with the additional injection duty cycle reaching 100%. It is very confusing, because it is random. I have done several pulls at 10 psi with my additional fuel map set up and 440cc injectors. Before I was even half way through the rev range, the emanage said that I was 100% duty cycle. If this was true my wide band o2 would have said dead rich. It was not dead rich it was 12:1 perfect. I think that the e-manage is very confused, because it is random. Some time at the same fuel map it will record two different out comes.

I sat down with one of the guys from RSM Racing while they were up at High Rev Motorsports over the summer and showed him all the e-manage stuff. He did not know much about the system because they use the electro motive stuff instead. But, he did say by looking at my maps and my data from my runs that the e-manage was some how misinturpreting the injector duty cycle. He said that there is know way the injectors were open that much, certianly not for 440 cc. He said the car would hardly run on that much fuel. I took him for a ride and he watched it in real time and said it was some how displaing the wrong value because the car ran great. We came to the conclusion that it was just wrong and to get a scan tool while on the dyno or desireable testing area and look at the actual value (duty cycle or duration) comming out of the factory computer. That would be the best way because you are actualy looking at the injector duty cycle not the additional incection cycle.

There is know way it is accurate, I wish it was.


As RPM increases the actual amount of time for injector pulse duration decreases.
We will just use a redline RPM of 6500 for an example. At 6500 Rpm it takes the engine 9.23 milli seconds to complete one revolution. We will just say for example that the stock injector duty cycle 6.2 msec. 9.23-6.2=3.03msec. This is the margin for additional fuel injector duration. The available increase in percentage would be 9.23devided by 6.2 minus 1 equals .49, 49% injector duty cycle increase to ge to 100%.

Since we have a 4 cycle engne there is only one intake stroke every 2 revolutions. So we actually have double the time for the injector to be open. 18.46 msec for the injector to be open at 100%. We clearly don't need all of this time with larger injectors. That is why I am confused. If it was a bank fired injection system rather than a sequential system it would make more sense. I think the e-manage is seeing the value of time 9.23 msec the amount of time to work in rather than the full 18.46msec. But like I said I am confused because it is random. Some times the numbers are more reallistic and some times they are way out in flippin outer space.

This is just theory and thinking out loud, Maybe some one else can add to it for us to come up with a solution.

Well you also have to take into consideration that the emanage was not made for a j-body or any domestic vehicle really. With that said, there will be some interesting problems. I have read on here that people are getting different readings out of there emanage for injector duty cycle. My injector duty cycle never goes over 13% and I have the ford brown top injectors. My .02 cents

There are several vehicles that are imports that the emanage was designed for. A lot of vehicles use a sequential fuel injected fuel system and a map sensor. which is what ours uses that is why it works. Some just use different parameters in their voltage signals for the computer to decode. Honda for example uses the same type of sensors as GM just different settings and they use sequential fuel injection like GM. It does work but it is not 100% universal. There are some small areas which input signals and output signals are not 100% compatable. We have had to modify and create to get this far so in my opinion it will get the job done, we just might have to use our brain where the emanage slacks off.

Yep you're deffinately seeing the exact same thing as I am. Now my question for you is how have you been adding the extra fuel needed? You do have some pretty massive injectors so i can see how 90% of the time youre probably trimming fuel out not adding additional, but in my setup I know I'm going to need to add probably in the mid range.

In playing around with the settings in the add injection map I have gotten the emanage to add to the stock pulses, i can't remember the details but it was aroung 3k-4k rpm and i added somewhere around 40% just to see if it was working or not. I think stock PW was somewhere around 6.7in and it was near 9.2 out. Don't quote me on these #'s as being exact because this was 4 days ago and i'm going from memory, i don't have the actual data in front of me right now. But then as the rpm's climbed at say around 5500 the emanage went to thinking 100% duty cycle and pulses in and out were both the same. Now at that time I was running on a 1/2 tach signal which might have confused it even more, but at the same time if it saw half the true RPM shouldn't it also calculate 1/2 duty cycle??? Hopefully I'll get a friend to drive the car again this weekend and i can trouble shoot more with them driving.

I think like the last "issue" this one too can be solved once we pinpoint the problem. Remember the emanage is nothing more than a signal modifier. As long as you have the patience, knowledge, and desire you can make it work on almost any modern car that uses similar sensors as the cars it was "designed" for.

So in your setup Jamie, are you just using the airflow adjustment map to pull fuel out, or are you using the injector size correction feature as well?


<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~richnj221/smiley.gif>

Exterminator
So in your setup Jamie, are you just using the airflow adjustment map to pull fuel out, or are you using the injector size correction feature as well?

Yeah I am using the airflow adjustment map to pull fuel out along with the injector size correction feature. I haven't had the car driven for a little over a month. I have been using the winter for a major prep time. I plan on getting the car running this week end and doing some serious, extensive researsh and tunning on it. My dad has a snapon scan tool that I want to use to check and compare the readings for injector duty cycle and duration.

I also had a problem in my stock fuel tank. The line that ran from the pump to the outlet on the fuel tank burst and I had a fuel starvation problem and my sender assembly went bad so the fuel guage quit working. So, I put in an aeromotive 800hp pump and filter and fuel cell in. I left the regulater set where it was with the stock tank and my holley pump to see if the new pump and lines would supply more pressure. I had 20psi more fuel pressure than what was originally there so I adjusted it back down. It runs good but have not driven it yet, but it should be a lot better. no more starvation.