VTLoki wrote:I just thought about something too. What about installing a second map sensor? Like, some kinda small manifold absolute pressure sensor that would be installed near the map sensor already in the car. One that won't go low on voltage. But that will talk drilling, tapping, and such. Maybe thats too much work, but also an idea i'm throwing around.
Pointless purchase when the system should work with the stock one.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Hey guys looks like alot of us are in the same boat. I finally got my usb to usb clone cable and updated all my firmware today and about 5 seconds after i turned the car over, i had tripped error code 11
. Keep me posted if you find a solution please. PS i am using the Eo1 programmer\boost controller which is soooo sweet, i highly recommend putting the 110 dollars you would have spent on the support tool towards a Eo1 as if you buy from Mohd, he will send you a burnt copy of the support tool anyways. Just something to consider for all you guys who are buying soon.
Kyle
Cheese,
Do us a favor and check something if you can. When you get the chance, disconnect your MAP sensor and run a piece of wire connecting the GREEN and GREY wires together on the MAP sensor connector. After that, put your ignition into the on position and write down the voltage the E-Manage is seeing from the MAP sensor.
BTW: Do you have the stock 1-Bar MAP or a different sensor?
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
cheese...haha DO it DO IT...save all our asses, so he can figure out the resistor and shiet hahaha...o man this is exciting , a fully functioning emanage with no errors...O MAN...and Thanx pute for all your time...ANd jason, iv used yourwebsite so far , n this will help greatly if u can post this on there aswell, what wire and where to put the resistor ect, as soon as he figures it out..thanx guys for all your help...lets fix this @!#$t haha......
<a href="www.daptronics.com">www.daptronics.com Huge Discounts on Electronics</a>
Hey Guys i went out to the car thinking i could be helpful and checked my voltage. Turns out its reading 0 volts
with the map plugged in and when jumped. So hopefully all i have is a loose wire. Then the battery died shortly after an i don't have time tonight to work on it. But i'll keep u up to date, hopefully i'll be able to get out there in the next couple of days so i'll keep ya posted.
Also, i only started my car up last nite for the first time with the emanage. The car ran horribly rich where it would die if i didn't keep the rpms up a bit. If the ECU sees 0volts will it add fuel? Less voltage means less fuel i would think, but i don't know.
Sorry i couldn't help you yet.
Kyle
New update:
I got the new E-Manage last night. Fiddled around with a bunch of resistors and temporarily settled on a 680ohm resistance between the sensor output (green wire) and the 5 volt reference (grey wire.) This stablized my idle voltage to about .60 volts and the car runs like a dream...........almost. Around town driving, I'm not tripping the E-Manage code. However, when letting off the gas at a high rpm and letting the car throttle down, the code still trips. Boost is peachy on the system. The voltages into the E-Manage and out of it on the MAP sensor are equal when under boost or regular driving. When you let off of the throttle, the MAP sensor is throwing it's correct voltage into the E-Manage but the output from the E-Manage is around .15-16 volts at high rpms. I've even tried putting a full 50% richer setting into the 0% throttle row on the E-Manage MAP to see if that changed anything. No change. Still .15-.16 volts when throttling down.
This is now beginning to lead me to believe that the MAP setting for the Toyota that we're using on the E-Manage isn't doing what we want it to do. I'm not for sure on that though. I guess I should also state that my TPS calibration is pretty much correct. The E-Manage is showing .48volts as 0% throttle and 4.40 volts as 100%.
I also posted this on the E-Manage Yahoo group:
Quote:
I have a 2000 Chevy Cavalier Z-24 with the supercharged 2.4 LD9 engine. The airflow on the engine is controlled by a 2 bar MAP sensor and the igition is a two coil distributor-less system.
My settings on the E-Manage rotary switches are 3-4-2, I don't have subinjectors installed, vtec is disabled, ignition input is pull down, and ignition output is 5volt.
Since I received my first E-Manage, I've been having issues with tripping E-Manage code 11. On my car without the E-Manage, the sensor at idle is putting out roughly .47 volts to the ECU. Under boost, I'm seeing about 3.30 volts. NO voltages change with just the E-Manage wiring harness installed and the proper wires jumped together so I know my wiring is not the cause of the problem. When the E-Manage is installed on the car, the input of .47 volts at idle is roughly the same. However, the output from the E-Manage is around .15-.16 volts. This in turn is causing an idle that is surging between 900-1300rpm. You can tell the ECU is trying to fight the E-Manage in this case.
When the car is undre acceleration, the E-Manage is putting out the proper voltage (same as input due to the fact that I haven't messed with the A/F map yet). The second problem is when you let off of the throttle in pretty much any situation. When this is done, the E-Manage is outputting the .15-16 volts again. This event trips the code 11 in the E-Manage and also eventually causes a P0107 OBD code to go off on my car. The OBD code conditions are met when the MAP signal goes below .2 volts for 6.25 seconds above 1000rpm with the throttle position below 15%. This is easily done when the car is downshifted at a high speed and you keep off of the throttle.
To try combating the problems, I tried taking some voltage from the 5 volt reference on the MAP sensor and putting it directly into the sensor output to literally "shift" the voltage range up a notch. I settled yesterday on a 680ohm resistance which allowed idle voltage to jump up to about .60 volts. Now that this has been done, the idle voltage has been wonderful! However, throttle off voltages are still running down to .15-.16 volts on the output side of the E-Manage. This is really strange because voltages on the input side of the unit are around .40 volts right where they should be.
I should also state that throttle position has been calibrated correctly.
Jay, I'd appreciate it if you could datalog your MAP In/Out voltages with respect to rpm for me in the E-Manage. I'd like to take a look at it if you get the chance. Go drive around town, hit up the freeway, and then do some throttling down at high rpms.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Hey, if u guys were still wondering, i fixed my problem and the emanage sees 4.97 volts with the map sensor jumped. Thats on the stock 1 bar map. Strange thing is that my adjustments don't seem to make any difference. I can play around with the airflow adjustment and subtract or add the max amount and no matter what i do the output voltage to the map sensor will not change
. Same thing with the ignition, i can retard the timing 20 degrees, but the engine runs exactly the same, have any of you guys played around with this. I would think if you retard the timing at idle i should notice the engine become upset. Also the ignition output has to go threw the emanage then to the coils, so if it was wired wrong it just wouldn't work.
Have any of you guys played around with the timing at idle to see if it works? What were your results? Any ideas why my emanage isn't changing things I tell it to?
Kyle
Did you calibrate the TPS sensor? Gotta do that in the Main setup menu before you can do anything really.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Yep, that was calibrated, i'm stumped
Kyle
any update on anything pute???
like 2 make the idle better er anything... er any update on the voltage thats gettin messed up at low rpms...any help would be great, thanx for ur help guys
<a href="www.daptronics.com">www.daptronics.com Huge Discounts on Electronics</a>
I'll have an update on sunday. I'm away from home and the new E-manage was taken off for the long trip to where I am. I'll put it back on sunday and give an update.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
thannnxxx man, cant wait for the update haha, excited for this shiettttt.ahah
Perfectly working emange throwing no codes watsover would be a BONERR hahah
thanx man lookin forward to hearin from ya...pc bro
<a href="www.daptronics.com">www.daptronics.com Huge Discounts on Electronics</a>
Not really an update:
Didn't have time yesterday to mess with the E-Manage. Got home at 6:30 and promptly turned on the Superbowl and proceeded to get a little tore up
Anywho. What I didn't mention the other day was even with the 680ohm resistor, I managed to get a P0107 MAP Low Voltage code to trip in OBD. I talked with AIM name Heraiz (owner of mohdparts.com) regarding my problem. He said to keep messing with the last two rotary switches. It sounds like to him the Toyota one isn't what we need. I don't know.
I'm now deciding whether or not I want to take a different approach to this. I currently don't really have a need to mess with A/F and faking the MAP sensor out. My car is having trouble with a lean situation. Therefore, I don't need to take away fuel...I need to add more.
I've already ordered a wideband O2 sensor for my car and I'm thinking about trying to get the E-Manage to tune to that. The sensor (www.wbo2.com) has a linear 0-5 volt output (which is the same as the MAP sensor) to which 0 corresponds to a ratio of 9 and the 5 corresponds to a ratio of 19. With that, I can just hook up the WB signal to the MAP sensor input. If the disconnected MAP output starts to freak the E-Manage out, the schematics for the J-Body show a 57k resistor attached to an earth ground as the resistance on the input into the ECU. So attaching a 57k resistor as well as a ground to the MAP out should hopefully take care of that problem.
Like I said, doing it this way will only allow you to add fuel to your car (which is the main reason behind most of us purchasing this unit.) My goals for the E-Manage are to have it add fuel as well as control a high pressure alcohol injection system I'm developing. Fuel would be controlled off of the WB signal and the alcohol injection will be progressive with throttle.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
have you watched or recorded anything in real time?
I have messed with mine and it does work. You won't notice much difference in the way the car idles, but if you pay real good attention at idle you will notice a change in pitch of the exhaust. This is normal.
When you retard timing you will hear a more hollow/progressive exhaust tone.
When you advance it the tone will tighten up a bit.
it is more noticable around 15-20 degrees of timing adjustment.
just don't drive around to much with a heavy advance or you will run real hot and could dammage pistons and valves.
sorry to interupt can I use the emanage to control the regular
msd dis2 if i get the ignition harness
Another way to test the timing is to throw like 15 - 20deg of retard across the whole map and try to drive the car. We just installed my emanage tonight and me and my friend were out testing it all out. He decided to throw -16 across the entire ignition map. The car felt like it had a weedwacker engine in it. I KNOW that the ignition side is definately working correctly. Didn't get to crazy on the advance though, tried +5 deg but didn't really notice any difference.
We didn't mess with the fuel since i don't have my wideband yet. But i did notice that I too throw a code when you engine break the car. I believe it's a code 11 that I'm throwing in the emanage?
We'll see what the week has in store for trying to solve this.
<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~richnj221/smiley.gif>
Exterminator wrote:Another way to test the timing is to throw like 15 - 20deg of retard across the whole map and try to drive the car. We just installed my emanage tonight and me and my friend were out testing it all out. He decided to throw -16 across the entire ignition map. The car felt like it had a weedwacker engine in it. I KNOW that the ignition side is definately working correctly. Didn't get to crazy on the advance though, tried +5 deg but didn't really notice any difference.
We didn't mess with the fuel since i don't have my wideband yet. But i did notice that I too throw a code when you engine break the car. I believe it's a code 11 that I'm throwing in the emanage?
We'll see what the week has in store for trying to solve this.
Exactly the same code. The vacuum on the car freaks out the E-Manage. Again, I didn't have time to play with the car today. I'm picking up some wheels tomorrow. Hopefully then, I'll have time to tweak more.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Ok, i did some dataloging today just to see what's going on. Hear me out on this one IDK if I'm on to somthing or not.
Now the pressure sensor sends a signal from roughly 0 - 5v and the emanage interperates that(based on switch setting) into a pressure reading. Now if we do have the wrong setting the that conversion would show a wrong pressure value. Now i wonder if that conversion scale is wrong and the emanage thinks it's seeing 0.0 kPa which would mean there is absolutely no air present what-so-ever, right? I'm not sure if the pressure is in referance to absolute vacume (outter space) or if sea level pressure is 0 and anything below that is -psi or vac.
Now I think the pressure conversion is in reference to absolute zero. So that would mean if it refrences some voltage ( a very low one like 0.15V) to zero kPa(true perfect vacume) instead of maybe 13.6 or so ( about 2PSI above perfect vaccume) the emanage sees a perfect vacume which would obviously mess things up.
Back to the data i logged... I noticed that under deceleration the map signal voltage drops to between 0.1v and 0.2v. And the absolute pressure at that point reads 0. I know some of these facts have already been said, I'm just thinking out loud here. Basicly I really support you thinking Mr. Pute about us having the wrong SW settings, but I would like to use the emanages injector size correction which would require the map signal to be acurate. I think at this point I'm gonna go try different switch settings and see if i can get luckey. If youre just trying to add fuel and play with timeing i really don't see this as a big deal because you can still do thoes things without a map signal.
Ok I'm done my brain dump now, Again I know alot of this has already been said and I'm not trying to take credit for it, Just trying to figure some stuff out.
<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~richnj221/smiley.gif>
By all means, give it a shot. I don't feel like sitting there combining all 256 possible combinations to find the right one. Please keep us updated. Also, if you could, please send me whatever data you logged to thepute2@aol.com. I'd like to pry through it and see what I can come up with. Thanks.
Update: None really on my behalf. I picked up my new wheels today and tripped both the E-Manage and OBD codes again. Didn't have time to tweak.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
I don't understand why you are tripping an obd code at all. I always trip the e-manage. But never at idle like you have seen. Mine will only trip on deceleration. The only code i have tripped on the car recently was high idle. and that's because i'm running a 75mm LS1 throttle body. Since that code i have welded the hole shut and redrilled a smaller hole and fixed that little problem. But i have never had the CEL light come on due to the MAP sensor. And i have hours worth of time with the car on the dyno. Also, just to make it very clear. When the car is in "limp mode" it still runs the maps i have setup in the e-manager. I make the exact same hp numbers, and my a/r ratio stays exactly the same across the whole map. So technically there is no real "Limp mode". Just and error light on the e-manage. I have simply chosen to ignore the light completely. There's no way you're going to hurt the engine in any way during deceleration.
Todd wrote:There's no way you're going to hurt the engine in any way during deceleration.
I totally beg to differ!!! On deacceleration, my car normally puts up ~0.30 volts on the MAP sensor. When I have the E-Manage installed, I'm getting 0.15 volts from the E-Manage to the ECU. That's bad! Granted, no boost will be going through the system thanks to the bypass valve. However, the P0107 MAP Low Voltage code tripping definitely put the car itself into "Limp Mode".
Anything different than what I was getting at stock is not good due to the fact that this system should be completely passive provided no maps have been put on it.
Send me a datalog of your car please if you can. BTW: Your car is nuts! I love it. Gotta get some better timeslips up there though.
Exterminator: Your car is pretty much doing the same thing mine is doing. Under deacceleration, you're seeing roughly 0.15 volts given to the ECU. Also, I suggest you get a tach adapter to get the full rpm range into your E-Manage. I have one if you want it for the same price as mohdparts.com. I bought it before realizing that Pin 10 on my ECU has a full rpm signal. I'm not sure if yours does or not since the ECU is totally different. In any event, if you want it, hit me up.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
One more thing for now:
I'm heading to Lansing tonight for a J-BOM meeting. Roughly a 1-1.5 hour drive. I'm gonna play with the resistance again. See if adding more voltage will help.
<a href="http://www.j-body.org/members/mrpute"><img src="http://www.j-bom.com/images/sigs/putesig.jpg">
Sorry about that, you are right. The PO107 on the ece is a bad thing. But like i said, on my car i never trip the CEL at all. So I guess i should clarify that by tripping the error code on the e-manage it's not hurting anything.
Oh, and the time slips/dyno sheets, etc. I have all of them that are much better then what it shows. All of those slips are from before the turbo.
