finally fired it up, one problem - Boost Forum

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finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 8:37 AM
ok, so i've finally gotten everything installed. rolled the car out of the garage this morning to fire it up. sounds like a cammed v8. got my idle fuel pressure adjusted, wideband reads roughly 14.3-14.8 at idle.

here's my problem. it will idle fine for about 2 minutes and then it will start throwing the code for cylinder 2 misfire.
the first thing i should check is the spark plugs right?
and if thats not it i should check my connections for the injector plug
if neither of those solve the problem, what should i look for next?

here's what my setup consists of...

97 2.2L 3 speed auto
t3 turbo
7 psi internal wastegate
ebay manifold
afpr
adjustable fmu
top feed conversion, using ford red tops(36lb/hr)
2200 fuel rail, 2200 injector clips, stock fpr is gone
2.5 inch charge pipes
intercooler
2.5 inch downpipe
turbo xs rfl bov
aem uego wideband
boost gauge
oil psi gauge
heated 4 wire 02 sensor
i'm sure i'm forgetting a few things

hopefully someone will be able to help me get this misfire problem squared away so then i can drive and tune the car this afternoon.

thanks for the help








Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 8:42 AM
check all ign parts , and fuel parts for cyl #2








Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 9:35 AM
97cavie24ls(JDM&00s/c sedans™) wrote:

check all ign parts , and fuel parts for cyl #2


yep, thats what I would do first......




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 10:19 AM
fuel parts all look good.
what should my plugs be gapped at? i'm using ngk tr-6.






Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 11:50 AM
I think they come gapped at like .035 which should be fine.


Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 2:15 PM
Hope you get it fixed and make it to the meet tomorrow.



Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 4:16 PM
double checked the plugs and regapped them, misfire code went away. now it idles like crap. i'll start it up and the wideband will read 14.1-14.7 and then drop down to 11.2 and then slowly creep back up to 14.5 and pretty much stay there. not quite sure why it does that






Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 6:02 PM
your injectors are prob way to big for the motor

im running 5-7 psi with the gm s/c on my 2.4 and im running 36lb injectors and ive got the base fuel pressure about 30 psi


the 2.4 starts with 24lb ,and the 2.2 start with like 18-19lb







Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 6:03 PM
more problems...i got the misfire code to go away. took it for a drive around the block. my wideband is showing 13.5-15 while i'm cruising, and when i let off the gas it jumps up to 16.1-wideband doesn't even show numbers for how lean it is. is that normal? i haven't even attempted to get into boost. there aren't many straight roads around me to get a good pull to see what the wideband reads at WOT.

just to make sure, solid CEL for misfire means it had happened and its ok now, and blinking CEL means its actually occurring, right? or something to that effect

i think i have a vacuum leak somewhere as well. what should my vacuum read at idle?





Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 6:29 PM
Those a/f numbers are normal.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 6:56 PM
i may not be the smartest one here but i do know when you let off the gas, turbo'd or not, It'll shoot up to like 19:1 even, thats fine. I agee with 97cavi that your injectors might be a lil large. Try messing with base pressure n fmu some. And with skillz on the whole normal number issue.

Just try and hit boost in just one gear and see how she takes it, then slowly do a lil more, then lil more, until you tweek it to the best of your abilities then run it like a dog......

Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Friday, June 02, 2006 7:25 PM
idle mine runs from 13.9 to 15.9 , pretty much same on cruise

let of the gas peddal , and it goes up into the 20's

under accel ill see any were from mid 13's to low 12's before boost

under boost ill see low 12's to mid 10's


all depend on throttle position , temp of the motor , and outside temps , weather conditions , but should give you a range to look for some normal afr readings

ive got the inovate stand alone gauge , so ive got a wide range to read









Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:28 AM
so now the misfire comes and goes. if i let it idle for 5 minutes it will start blinking, but if i drive it the CEL stays on solid and will only blink when i am decelerating down a hill.

i definitely have a boost leak in one of my charge pipes, because anytime i get on the gas i hear a nice whistling sound. i'm almost 100% sure i know where that leak is

my idle fuel pressure is around 20 psi. at least thats what i calculated it to be based on the info in the fuel system faq

F2=(P2*F1)/(P1)

F2=flow at new psi
P2=desired fuel pressure
F1=flow at rated psi
P1=rated fuel injector psi

my stock injectors were 17lb/hr at 45 psi, and the new ones are 36lb/hr at 43.5 psi

i plugged in the numbers

17=((X)*36)/(43.5)

X=20.54 psi

after a few trips around the block, i pulled the plugs and they all looked good except for cylinder 2 which was white. so clearly its a fuel issue in that cylinder. i pulled my injector harness and resoldered all my connections(i used 2200 injector connectors) and check for broken or damaged wires. everything was good there. this afternoon i'm gonna pull the rail off. i think the injector for cyl 2 might be damaged or clogged. i bought these injectors from ebay, so that could be my problem right there. how would i be able to tell if the injector is clogged. should i just swap it with the one from cyl 3 and then start the car and see if i get a cyl 3 misfire code? that would tell me that the injector is bad and i would need a new one.

any help is greatly appreciated

is there any particular reason why when i start my car, the wideband says 14.8, and then the stock computer drops the a/f down to 11.2 and then slowly brings it back up to 14.7? is that what my computer is supposed to do or is that indicative of another problem?



Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:35 AM
yea, swap the injector with the cylinder next to it, easiest way to figure out if its the injector.

What are you running for a O2 for the stock ECM? A stock narrow band, or the narrow band output on the wide band?

keep us updated.




SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:42 AM
i'm using a heated 02 sensor from caspers for the stock sensor. plugged right into my harness, all i had to do was connect a ground and a switched 12v. this is the one i got, i knew i had seen someone post about it in the past and i spent about 2 hours trying to find the post with it. i finally found it, everyone said the sensor worked well, so i bought that one.





Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:18 AM
that sensor should work fine then.

I guess just swap that injector, and see if the problem follows......





SPD RCR Z - '02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT - '04 GTO 305whp
RACER X - '78 Opel Kadett W41 Swap

Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:20 AM
i just swapped the cyl 2 injector with the cyl 3 injector. cleared all the codes and started it up. it still did the weird thing where the computer made it really rich and then pulled it back to 14.5ish. no CEL and the idle sounded fine. the cooling fan came on about 2 minutes after i started it. i had thought that meant there was a code pending. i scanned it and P0507 was pending, which is the high idle code. that just means that i need to adjust the IAC right? i think someone said that cranking the key forwards a few times adjusts that, but i'm not 100% sure.

so why did switching the cyl 2 and 3 injectors seem to have made the misfire code go away? i'm a little confused on that one. as soon as the rain stops, i'll get back out there and take it for a spin to see if the misfire code comes back. hopefully it doesn't





Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 12:36 PM
Your AFR dropping down during start up is normal on a cold engine. Until the coolant temp comes up a little, the engine should run rich. You may have to drive it around a bit to see if the cyl 3 misfire decides to show up. You'll need to drive it around a bit anyway in order to get a new reading from the plugs anyway.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 1:31 PM
let it idle for about 10 mins and then made a few trips around the block. no CEL for misfire, just a pending code for high idle.

i'm gonna let the car cool down for a few mins and then check the plugs. my oil feed line for the turbo is also leaking, so i need to order a few things to replace it.

other than that, it seems like everything is running good. i've only hit about 2 psi because i've got a leak in one of my charge pipes, and the a/f was 12.1 when i stomped on the gas. for some reason, my gas pedal seems really stiff.





Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Saturday, June 03, 2006 3:48 PM
Fix that boost leak before you get on it any more, you don't want to over spool the turbo and kill it.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:15 AM
started the car this morning and let it idle for a while and the cyl 2 misfire code came back. so now i know that its not the injector being clogged or damaged. the problem must be somewhere in the injector wiring then, right? because that is the only other thing i changed when i installed the turbo. is it possible that i have the wires backwards on the injector clip? would that create problems? all the injector clips are wired the same for all 4 cylinders. i used a spare harness from a 96 cav that i had laying around and spliced the new connectors into that. there appeared to be no physical difference between the 96 harness and my 97 harness. however, reading about hptuners, it seems that 96 was set up a little different that 97. maybe i should pull that harness off and solder the connectors onto the harness from my 97. any ideas?






Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:51 AM
If it's a misfire code, the problem may be in the ignition. Try switchng your coils and plugs around (I hope you relocated your coil packs...if not, this would be a good time to do so)



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:47 AM
Vacuum leak?


sig not found
Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:58 PM
protomec wrote:

Vacuum leak?


i think you might be on to something there. if my cyl 2 injector wasn't sealing with the manifold and it was creating a vacuum leak, would that cause the misfire code to come up? it seems as though my cyl 2 injector doesn't fit as tightly in the manifold as the other 3.





Re: finally fired it up, one problem
Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:29 PM
Your plug was white, which means your injector isn't leaking into the manifold. If you don't smell gasoline, it's not leaking outside the manifold. I'm still betting on ignition. I can't think of a vacum leak that would cause a single consistant cylinder misfire, or a lean condition (without a high idle).



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
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