Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo - Boost Forum

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Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:07 PM
I have read and know the advantages and disadvantages of both routes.

Supercharger -

Pros

Easy install, Blower Whine, Tuning done by GM, Realiable

Cons

Its the M45, Not a lot of power for 1500 ish

Turbo - im looking at the T3/T4 60-1

Pros

Lots of power potential

Cons

Tuning

I am really in the air here as what to do

I wanna run boost for the upcoming bracket racing season. I want to maintain a realiable car here. Its not daily driven but would like to have it running when i want it

I know with the Turbo i will have to do the bottom end to reduce failure and do plan on it over the winter for which ever route i go. I have been told the LD9 can withstand around 7 PSI safely

The car is a 2000 Z Auto with about 160000 Kilometers on it, Royal Purple oil changed every 5 k


Can i safely run on the turbo at 7-8 PSI or should i just try and build the entire motor all at once? It would be hard but im sure i can make it all happen over a couple months.

I don't really have any Turbo experts i can fall back on here in my Home town but do have some good friends that know their way around motors and boost.

Tuning wise i would get the GM reflash for the turbo and have to adjust it with HPT im guessing.


Can i have a reliable car with a Turbo setup? or do you say S/C ?




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:35 PM



Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:16 PM
At 7-8psi either one would be equally reliable, it's really just a matter of opinion (do you want the blow-off sound or the whine).


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Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:26 PM
You'll have more hp/tq potential with the turbo setup, I guess it really depends on your ultimate goal. you said for bracket racing season what et/mph are you shooting for? I was in the same situation as you and I decided to build my motor and go turbo so hopefully I'll have it up and running soon.
Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:10 AM
I would like to eventually break into the 8s in the 1/8th which would be near impossible with the M45 without going with Nitrous. Would like to have around 300-350 WHP with my built bottom end.

My main goal is to do a Boost build that can be reliable and not sitting in my garage all the time getting fixed

I would like to be able to do this season without building the bottom end if possible also Can it be done with a Turbo?







Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 23, 2008 2:40 PM
Thats a pretty big turbo 300-350whp. You'd have a fuller power band and much more fun to drive car with a a smaller turbo like a T3/TO4E 50 trim.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:57 PM
judging by your post i would say the gm s/c is for you.

If you are looking for safe, reliable, no hassle, no tinkering with, no exhuast leaks, no oil leak boost . then the gm s/c is for you.


I been around turbo 2.4ls, and i had a cav with a m45 s/c on it. Turbo will get you more hp no doubt, but if you dont want to spend alot of $ and have a fun worry free daily driver then s/c it.


building the motor and turbo - you dont have to. i seen alot of guys do good on stock bottom ends, for a while.


up to you. i dont think you will be unhappy with a gm s/c and all the bolt on mods(intake/bigger t/b, full exhuast and water/meth injection. )


good luck.




Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 12:16 AM
To make 300+hp you'd be better off getting a turbo. The nice thing is that all you have to do is buy a bigger turbocharger when the time comes.


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Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 7:51 AM
A reliable turbo kit is going to cost you alot more than the 1500 for a brand new sc. If you peice together a kit you are going to have alot of decisions to make that in the end boil down to how much you want to spend. IE BB turbo or regular polished compressor housing or not jet hot coating or not and if so what parts what wastegate waht blow off valve what wideband and gauges and the list goes on and on....



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 8:16 AM
I still think that the supercharger would be the best for you Darren.

IMO if you are going to go the Turbo route it is allways the best to do it right the first time. Not build half of it then the other half later. That allways leads to headache.

Go Turbo if your really feeling it, cause you will never make 300-350 whp on the blower without alot of work. But wait till you get all the parts to do the whole thing.




Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 9:27 AM
you wont get that kind of power out of the blower, but i dont think you will get that kind of RELIABLE power out of a turbo either. when you start getting to that level of power, things will probably start breaking, depending on how you build it.

personally, i like the ease of use of the supercharger. it installs in a few hours with hand tools, is backed by GM, smaller pulley and alky will get you more boost than stock, and getting it s-ported will help you see more CFM's. the only downfall i see to the supercharger is that you eventually have to replace belts...

as for the turbo, like others said... thats a HUGE turbo to get that kind of numbers. with that size of a turbo, i dont think you will even be seeing half the potential of the turbo in the 1/8 mile.

you said you want to do this for bracket racing, right? then why do you need that much power for bracket? get something reliable and consistent, because if not your going to have people with 90 WHP NA Civics beating you because you cant hook up or something isnt working right. you dont need a @!#$ load of power for bracket racing, just be consistent.



1997 Cavalier Z24 - 16.3 in 1320 and falling...
Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 10:23 AM
I fully understand both sides of the story

Lets say this

M45 supercharger Kit, HO cams, Ported and Polished 2.4 L head running HO valve train.

Devilsown Progressive Kit running 50/50 Meth mix, ARP head studs from Karo. HO TB until i can find a 62mm

What kind of power estimates am i looking at there?


Then i can get a smaller pulley 2.7 or 2.6 after motor is built.

Just trying to get a feel for the power this kit can make me.




Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 12:41 PM
The most you'll ever get out of that blower is about 230whp, and thats with all the mods you've listed plus more.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 7:10 PM
Lets just say this...

my 1/4 mile times

15.0 N/A

14.8 S/C

13.2 T/C

I havnt lost any reliability aside from the things we discussed in PM.

Run the proper size turbo and get proper tuning.





BeardLife / Club Awesome Reject Blog
Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 8:55 PM
What turbo are you recommending?

T3/T4 60-1 a little big eh

Hows the T3 Super 60?

What do you recommend?



Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Monday, March 24, 2008 10:12 PM
For some reason the Edit button isnt there

T3/TO4 E is another one i was looking at

.57 Trim .60 AR Comp .63 Turbine with Stage 3 wheel


How would the be at 6 psi on stock bottom end?


Or would the .50 Trim that Skilz suggested be best?




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, March 24, 2008 10:15 PM


Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:41 AM
The T3/T4 50 trim would be good for 300-350whp and the T3/T4 57 trim would bet good for 350-400whp.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:31 AM
If your looking for reliabilty on a higher mileage motor go with the sc. Sure theres no way in hell you can make the power you can with a turbo, but anything is more fun than what you have now. Id say supercharge, enjoy the experience of it and plus you already have one, build your motor, and then turbo down the road. You can turbo and go fast of course, with maybe a few little quirks here and there but then if you decide you want to supercharge for some reason youll be losing power, and its no fun to go slower than you were I was planning to turbo but then decided to sc just to see what its like on my old motor, which I know when I build a motor Ill go with an all out turbo setup using maybe a turbonetics gtk or gt35r or something very large haha.

That is a alot of power your trying to make, and Id say go with a garrett gt series, something bb. With that much power there will be issues, even on a built motor. So it comes down to what exactly do you want...an issue free,bolt on and go,decently quick sc setup...a bit faster turbo setup with a few quirks and more work involved, or an all out fast car with problems here and there with alot more tuning and money involved?


Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:08 PM
Skilz10179 wrote:

The T3/T4 50 trim would be good for 300-350whp and the T3/T4 57 trim would bet good for 350-400whp.


Im having a hard time finding a good deal on a 50 trim

I have found a 57 trim for 600 brand new

Would this still give me a good response on 6 psi?



Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:19 AM
GT30R!

low lag time, and still makes power.

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 9:52 AM
http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/gat350trw63a.html


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:55 AM
Talk to Shifted and get him to mail order you his modified GM tune. It really cleans up the GM tune. If you end up building the motor DO NOT drop compession you will lose power. You can't apply the smame logic you would a turbo or centrifigual blower to a roots blower. It will make less power. If you don't believe me try it I've seen a car lose 50 horsepower from dropping the compression 1 point. Either leave it stock or increase the compression. It will help increase power substantially with the right tuning. You will be able to make more power with less boost thus less stress on other components. The Honda guys that supercharge have been aplying this theory for years, I saw an LS/Vtec build pull 273 to the wheels with an intercooled M62 supercharger and 11:1 compression on pump gas. LHT performance has a couple supercharged 280+hp hatches that are using an M62. Thats my 2 cents.

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:51 AM
Think the 50 Trim would be best ?



Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 2:15 PM
If you want a driver freindly car, yep 50 trim is the way to go. I drove a Civic hatch not too long ago with a 57 trim on a B16 I had also drivin the car with a 50 trim the same one Skillz posted the 50trim came on alot sooner and had an excellent powerband. When he upgraded to the 57trim he was making more power but it was making full boost 5500RPMs and when boost hit the tires melted. It was nice to know there was power there but I really like my low end as well.
Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 4:21 PM
sUiCiDe wrote:

Think the 50 Trim would be best ?


Unless you want to spend twice as much on a GT turbo.


- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.

Re: Turbo vs Supercharger ..... Im in limbo
Sunday, March 30, 2008 9:38 PM
Ya im liking the T04e

But do your recommend me sticking with the 50 trim over the 57?





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