2.6" without meth? - Boost Forum

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2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:22 AM
I was just wondering who has run a 2.6 pulley on their m45 without methanol? What kind of iat's were you seeing and how did the car run? I know this is not recommended at all, but Im bored of my 2.7 and am getting a meth setup soon. I have some meth parts, but think I want to just get a new kit from coolingmist or snow; I also have an obx tb spacer Im gona tap the meth into. I have a true cai, and plan to put in lsj injectors when the pulley goes on, but I just want to hear peoples opinions/experience or if theres any horror stories about this.

This may also be a very dumb question, but can you adjust fan settings with hpt? Like to come on sooner/ stay on until the car reaches a certain temp?



Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 6:57 AM
I do. Runs good. No idea on IATs, no HPTuners.


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
636 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:01 AM
How much boost are you seeing? Do you feel any difference over the 2.7? Im just worried about getting too much heatsoak in the sc, but i dont drive the car that much and wont have it on too long without meth. You using the belt from the kit or smaller?


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:32 AM
7 PSI, most see this with the 2.7" pulley.

I got 3-4 PSI stock. 4-5 PSI on the 2.7" pulley haha. And now 6-7 PSI on the 2.6". I'm using the stock 2.8" belt, thinking about getting the Gates.


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
636 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:42 AM
Yea when I first put the charger on I was seeing just about 7psi at redline with the 2.7 pulley, now Im only seeing just about 6psi at redline. I checked all the manifold bolts and vacume connections, but Im just guessing its the weather getting warmer as I saw almost 7psi the other night when it was cooler out. How does your belt feel, is there a bit of slack?


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:59 AM
Ya, there is.


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
636 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:09 PM
You have the part number for the recomended smaller belt? I wish I could get an overdrive crank pulley but as far as I know nobody is currently making them, and there was only 5 of the racetech pulleys made.


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:04 PM
I did some reasrch and this is what I found.

2.6 pulley = Gates Micro V k050720

2.5 pulley = Goodyear Gatorback 4050722

2.4 pulley = no info belt size info found

*NOTE* The last 3 numbers of the part number corespond to the lenght. The gatorback is listed as 72.25 inches so that means that the Gates listed for the 2.6 would actually be 72.00 inches which would be smaller than the one listed for the 2.5 so I if this is true what I have listed should be reversed.

The Goodyear Gatorback 4050722 can be bought from Auto Zone for 24.99 but it will take one day to get it as Auto Zone does not stock it. The Goodyear gatorback 4050722 can be ordered from Summit racing. Below is the link
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=GTR%2D4050722&N=700+115&autoview=sku
However it is 26.69 and then another 9.75 to ship it to my zip code.




FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:32 PM
Awesome thanks wade. I guess Ill be putting this in soon, Im about to order a light crank pulley so when that gets here Ill put the 2.6 on. Like I said I dont drive it much, and when I get my tax rebate Ill be picking up a coolingmist kit and an aem wb


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:02 PM
with a 2.6" pulley and no alky you are not seeing any more of a gain in power then you would with a 2.7" pulley and no alky.. (maybe 5hp at best) when i dyno tested mine (back when i was only supercharged) the 2.6" pulley was useless with out alky and a proper HP tune.. Thing just heated alot more and alot faster that was about it.



The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:05 PM
Oh and i forgot to say you are spinning the supercharger to its limits if not past what Eaton suggests... and they arent suggesting that because the bearings cant take it, they are saying that because the M45 becomes unstable at thoughs speed and you will start to get crazy boost spikes which makes tuning a "fun" task



The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:14 PM
^Interesting.

I'll probably pick up this smaller Gatorback belt soon and check it out.


2001 Olds Alero (LD9)
636 whp / 543 ft-lb
@turboalero
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Friday, May 09, 2008 5:54 AM
Yea I know its not recommended, like I said I wanted to hear people's experiences. I also wont be running it long without meth, and I dont drive the car much. But Id rather just pick up a smaller belt and put on the 2.6 when I do the crank pulley. Im gona pick up a spare rail to mod for my lsj injectors at the same time. Theres a guy local to me who flashed me for the sc so my car is registered and we can make changes. We cant do any real tuning yet since I need to get a wideband, which Im gona pick up the same time I get my alchy kit.


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Friday, May 09, 2008 6:35 AM
Josh F wrote:Oh and i forgot to say you are spinning the supercharger to its limits if not past what Eaton suggests... and they arent suggesting that because the bearings cant take it, they are saying that because the M45 becomes unstable at thoughs speed and you will start to get crazy boost spikes which makes tuning a "fun" task


Yep, i have the 2.5" and i am seeing 7psi with all my port work done and i get spikes at 9psi sometimes at 7k redline.

And i don't see why everyone says get a new belt, im using the STOCK gm s/c belt and it's plenty tight on the 2.5. You can run the 2.6" without meth, hell i did for over a year, the car runs ok but obviously your heat soaking the charger and leaning your ass out because going from no meth 15.0 at redline (ouch) and with the meth it was 11.6 at redline. Now i'm like 12.5 at redline due to no tuning and swapping to the 2.5" but still rips a$s




Re: 2.6" without meth?
Friday, May 09, 2008 6:43 AM
Considering the tensioner is spring loaded. The smaller the belt the tighter the tensoiner is compressed the tighter it holds the belt to the pulleys. Also keep in mind you are loosing surface area where the belt wraps around the supercharger pulley when you go to a smaller pulley. I am not saying you are going to have issues if you do not get a smaller belt but why not aside from the obvious answer.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Friday, May 09, 2008 7:00 AM
Yea thats why I want to put in the lsj injectors when I put the 2.6 pulley on. I know it will be getting very hot, but I realy only drive the car at night for the most part when its cooler, and I do have a true cai if that matters a tiny bit.


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Friday, May 09, 2008 9:06 PM
Josh F wrote:Oh and i forgot to say you are spinning the supercharger to its limits if not past what Eaton suggests... and they arent suggesting that because the bearings cant take it, they are saying that because the M45 becomes unstable at thoughs speed and you will start to get crazy boost spikes which makes tuning a "fun" task



No, your still safe.

i don't have the #'s any more, but with a IE crank pulley your still well within the safe RPM of it.


Hell, i was running a Overdrive crank pulley, and a 2.6 charger pulley for a good 6 months before i sold it.
(04 GTO FTW)

water injection is a MUST though.

Chris



'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Friday, May 09, 2008 11:24 PM
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:
Josh F wrote:Oh and i forgot to say you are spinning the supercharger to its limits if not past what Eaton suggests... and they arent suggesting that because the bearings cant take it, they are saying that because the M45 becomes unstable at thoughs speed and you will start to get crazy boost spikes which makes tuning a "fun" task

No, your still safe.
i don't have the #'s any more, but with a IE crank pulley your still well within the safe RPM of it.
Hell, i was running a Overdrive crank pulley, and a 2.6 charger pulley for a good 6 months before i sold it.
(04 GTO FTW)
water injection is a MUST though.
Chris


So if running the 2.6" pulley is well with in the limits.. what would you put the blame on for the wild boost spikes at the higher RPM's? A supercharger that is spinning with in its limits will not give you boost spikes, it is going to maintain a constant / smooth boost levels. I will try and find the charts again but I do remember the 2.7" pulley alone puts you close to the limits of a M45 on our engines, which puts the 2.6" past its suggested RPM. Sure down low you might feel a difference, but try and tune something up top that is spiking and un-predictable.



The First Twin Charged jbody
blue car (R.I.P) - 240whp @7psi..
silver car - 305whp 315lbs.tq @15psi (91 Octane) or 420whp & 425lbs.TQ @20psi (94 octane+Alcohol Injection)
All dynos run on a Mustang dyno
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:02 AM
Never had boost spikes when I ran a 2.4" pulley. It always behaved in the exact same manner as it did with the stock pulley on it.


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:37 AM
Josh F wrote:
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:
Josh F wrote:Oh and i forgot to say you are spinning the supercharger to its limits if not past what Eaton suggests... and they arent suggesting that because the bearings cant take it, they are saying that because the M45 becomes unstable at thoughs speed and you will start to get crazy boost spikes which makes tuning a "fun" task

No, your still safe.
i don't have the #'s any more, but with a IE crank pulley your still well within the safe RPM of it.
Hell, i was running a Overdrive crank pulley, and a 2.6 charger pulley for a good 6 months before i sold it.
(04 GTO FTW)
water injection is a MUST though.
Chris


So if running the 2.6" pulley is well with in the limits.. what would you put the blame on for the wild boost spikes at the higher RPM's? A supercharger that is spinning with in its limits will not give you boost spikes, it is going to maintain a constant / smooth boost levels. I will try and find the charts again but I do remember the 2.7" pulley alone puts you close to the limits of a M45 on our engines, which puts the 2.6" past its suggested RPM. Sure down low you might feel a difference, but try and tune something up top that is spiking and un-predictable.


High RPM, and a head that cant flow well = top RPM boost spike.

case at point.

stock pulleys, 2500-6000, 4.5-5 now 6500-7000, 6-7 psi

OS crank, and 2.6 charger, (with water) 2500-6500 7.5-8.5 psi, 6500-7000, 10 psi.

Stock cams, head, water pump, oil pump, ectra... and this is over a 100K mile time frame.


Chris



'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:17 AM
I've got the 2.6 pulley but i'm also running the Cobalt SS/SC injectors.....i need to get it HP Tuned but my A/f ratios were 10.1-10.6 all the way to fuel cutoff on the dyno......also only got 180whp....running too rich......haven't installed my meth kit yet....

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:27 AM
Im gona put in the lsj injectors when I get a spare rail to modify for them, a local guy has hpt and my car is registered so we can do what we need. Im getting a wideband very soon so I can actualy get some decent tuning done.


Re: 2.6" without meth?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:30 AM
NICE AFR's well with in the safe lim.

were you picking up and K\R?

Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Re: 2.6" without meth?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:10 PM
is that question for me??......if so i'm not exactly sure what you mean
Re: 2.6" without meth?
Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:08 PM
Blackwidow660 wrote:is that question for me??......if so i'm not exactly sure what you mean


K/R means knock retard. Since you are not familar with this term I doubt you would know what it is, how to monitor it, and how it affects engine performance. By the way at this point you would be better off with the 310cc injectors than the 370cc from the sscc cobalt since you are not tuned for them you are running way to rich killing your cat as well as the performance gain from you should be getting with a smaller pulley.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

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