Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good idea - Transmission Forum

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Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good idea
Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:30 AM
alright well people complained about the isuzu, and got the getrag

life was good.. then we started blowing differentials

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.

then the cobalt SS came out, with LSD available as a factory option

FYI:

-the 3rd gen cavaliers got the F23 getrag transmission, most of which being the M86.
-the cobalt SS has the L61 2.2 eco and the LSJ 2.0 s/c eco as available engines
-cobalt L61 has the F23 M86 getrag transmission 5 speed
-cobalt SS/sc has the F35 MU3 getrag transmission 5 speed

so in theory, the F35 would bolt up to our chassis since the F23 bolts into the cobalt chassis... with some minor swapping of trans mounts

the F35 MU3 is slightly different than the F23... it has equal length driveshafts, and the LSD from quaiffe available as a stock option. Gearing is slightly different, as well as final drive but overall top speeds in every gear is similar to that of the F23 M86.

so here's my theory:

swap the F35 MU3 transmission into a Jbody, get slightly better gearing, a newer design and (I would assume) stronger transmission with equal length driveshafts (helps to eliminate torque steer) AND get an LSD

I found one for $900.. about half the cost of JUST the diff for the F23

at the very least, perhaps the LSD will swap into the F23. Not sure how the final drive change will effect the gearing however... I'll have to run some more calculations at home

if the numbers all work out, I may buy one and experiment with a frankenstein getrag to get better gearing for acceleration and top speed.

if the F35 doesn't fit into our chassis, an internals swap may be possible from F35 into F23

I have a feeling in order for the F35 to drop into a jbody, you would need cobalt driveshafts as well since they're equal length. Another worry is flywheel/ clutch compatibility and spline count

As I find out more, I shall post

comments? ideas? prior knowledge?






Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:36 AM
As I recall....and you'll find this by searching I'm sure....the Cobalt trans doesn't fit in our car. PERIOD.



I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:49 PM
What's $900? Go for it, at least someone will have tried. Sorry if I stepped on anybody's toes.



Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:34 AM
The diff will fit your current Getrag, and I hope you're succesful in getting the entire tranny to swap, but it's never been done to my knowledge. The bellhousing will be the same as other ecos, and the tranny mounts are likely different, so no different than doing an isuzu to getrag swap really? How much are things like axles, and do they fit our front hubs? That could be the undoing right there.


15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:42 AM
the axle issue could be solved with a call to driveshaft shop

custom length stronger axles and that's taken care of

I'd like to use as many OEM peices as possible however, so that others may attempt the swap on their own.

I do know the F35 has more mounting points than the F23 (a subframe bar that goes across the engine bay just in front of the transmission/ motor)

Also, I may need to get cobalt SS shift cables since the hook ups may be in a different location. I need to pour over a cobalt SS and inspect the transmission to really see how its packaged, and, sensor locations and plug differences.

I'm also worried about the clutch/flywheel compatibility.. this is going to have to wait until I can actually bolt it up to an L61 and see if I can get it to work in the Jbody

$900 for a whole trans WITH LSD is a great price... even if my only option is to pirate the differential.





Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Thursday, August 03, 2006 2:56 PM
mmm.. post ur results of when u get it done!!

Nate



Evolution of Cavyboy-->C22t--> C24na--->c24s/c
1995 Cavalier W/2k1 Engine
GM S/C 13.940@99.78pmh w/2.068 60ft
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Thursday, August 03, 2006 4:13 PM
Never heard of issues with the diff on the getrag. I know I have never had a issue. I have about 200 track oasses on drag radials. Axles never a issue as well. I know other higher hp cars not having issues. Have you thought about the Team Green LSD? Also a Qauiffe?

In regards to the swap you want to do I think the tranny will fit in the J, but making a clutch could be a issue.



FU Tuning



Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:51 PM
john higgins wrote:

Have you thought about the Team Green LSD? Also a Qauiffe?


uh..

daflyinskwirl wrote:

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.


yes i have. its around $1600

some of the F35 MU3 comes with LSD in it, however the final drive change would make the gearing in an F23 incredibly short. The only option would be to swap all the gears from the 35 to the 23. The 35 should have a higher torque capacity than the 23.

i just need to get the trans shipped to me and gung ho





Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Friday, August 04, 2006 12:58 PM
Probly cheaper in the long run to just buy the qualife man.
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Friday, August 04, 2006 7:15 PM
i have had differential problems
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Saturday, August 05, 2006 1:26 AM
Quote:

at the very least, perhaps the LSD will swap into the F23. Not sure how the final drive change will effect the gearing however... I'll have to run some more calculations at home


listening


http://www.myspace.com/15102113


Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:55 AM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

The only option would be to swap all the gears from the 35 to the 23. The 35 should have a higher torque capacity than the 23.

i just need to get the trans shipped to me and gung ho


Thats what I am planning to do this coming winter. Let me know how you make out.



Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:40 AM
raven wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

The only option would be to swap all the gears from the 35 to the 23. The 35 should have a higher torque capacity than the 23.

i just need to get the trans shipped to me and gung ho


Thats what I am planning to do this coming winter. Let me know how you make out.


The gears won't swap, only the diff gears and LSD are interchangeable, the rest is totally different.


15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Saturday, August 05, 2006 1:55 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

john higgins wrote:

Have you thought about the Team Green LSD? Also a Qauiffe?


uh..



Can you explain that answer?



FU Tuning



Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Saturday, August 05, 2006 2:05 PM
Ian Brydon wrote:

raven wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

The only option would be to swap all the gears from the 35 to the 23. The 35 should have a higher torque capacity than the 23.

i just need to get the trans shipped to me and gung ho


Thats what I am planning to do this coming winter. Let me know how you make out.


The gears won't swap, only the diff gears and LSD are interchangeable, the rest is totally different.


Cool thats really all I need. Either that or I am going to make an F35 fit.



Quoth the Raven 'Nevermore
raven@accesswave.ca
Raven Autosports
55 McQuade Lake Cres,
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
(902) 850-3330
10.82@132
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Saturday, August 05, 2006 3:47 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

alright well people complained about the isuzu, and got the getrag

life was good.. then we started blowing differentials

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.

then the cobalt SS came out, with LSD available as a factory option


if you read, I mentioned the quaiffe in the opening post so yes i have thought about it.






Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:05 AM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

alright well people complained about the isuzu, and got the getrag

life was good.. then we started blowing differentials

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.

then the cobalt SS came out, with LSD available as a factory option


if you read, I mentioned the quaiffe in the opening post so yes i have thought about it.



i tell ya, the JBO should set up some "sunday" reading schools for its "members"


Kardain wrote:

Tonite on Fox:
When X's attack

Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:37 AM
Not that is adds anything to the conversation but a company called Strange actually made my "Torsen" rebranded W41 dif. Quaife had nothing to do with it. I wish I still had it..

Also, do we really KNOW the stock LSD from the F35 will swap to the F23? As far as I've read no one has done it.



Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:12 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:

alright well people complained about the isuzu, and got the getrag

life was good.. then we started blowing differentials

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.

then the cobalt SS came out, with LSD available as a factory option


if you read, I mentioned the quaiffe in the opening post so yes i have thought about it.


Ok well re-read my post. What about the Team green LSD??????? I had 2 things in it.
Yeah I agree some people need to have reading school!! Like you guys!



FU Tuning



Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Sunday, August 06, 2006 3:28 PM
well, another post ruined by the famous org; credit to mr john higgins.

If I wanted the team green LSD, I would have posted about it

I've been a member for a long time, I know what is and isn't available for the getrag and the ecotec.

comparing the two (actually 3 LSDs) available, I'd prefer to have either the engineered clutch style lsd, or the quiaffe, but since I haven't heard from engineered, and a clutch style LSD will need to be rebuilt when the clutches wear out, I would prefer to have the quiaffe unit... the only downside is the cost

which I mentioned in my first post, and explained in my second post, but had to FURTHER simplify so you would understand in my THIRD post.

my first post wrote:

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.


john higgins wrote:

Have you thought about the Team Green LSD? Also a Qauiffe?


my second post wrote:


john higgins wrote:

Have you thought about the Team Green LSD? Also a Qauiffe?


uh..

daflyinskwirl wrote:

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.



yes i have. its around $1600



john higgins wrote:


DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) wrote:


john higgins wrote:

Have you thought about the Team Green LSD? Also a Qauiffe?


uh..

Can you explain that answer?


my THIRD post wrote:


DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ) original post wrote:



alright well people complained about the isuzu, and got the getrag

life was good.. then we started blowing differentials

quaiffe made the torsen LSD but the price is still astronomically high.

then the cobalt SS came out, with LSD available as a factory option



if you read, I mentioned the quaiffe in the opening post so yes i have thought about it.


how many times do I have to explain it before you understand john? do I have to spell it out for you?

lets recap:
YES I know about the quaiffe, thats what this post is about and has been about since the beginning. Thank you for posting completely useless, recycled information that I already know. Try READING before posting.

NO I do not want the team green LSD. It serves its purpose in other applications, and does work, but is not for me.

do you understand now? who needs the english class here? lol

oh well looks like the F35 swap will be posted about when its either completed or attempted and failed. But since nobody really knows whats going on, I'll just try it myself. I should know better than to make posts preceding high potential scenarios since they're always ruined by either naysayers or members who are illiterate.

I'll make a follow up post in a few months of my success, or failiure. Until then, keep your fingers crossed.





Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:12 PM
You know you posted about issues you are having (which have not been on here before). I understood for comments about the price of the Quaiffe (I agree with you on it). That is why I mentioned the Team Green LSD. I mentioned it as a idea. Trying to help you, give you ideas on a issue that makes no sense. Now I could be wrong on this part here but Team Green has a LSD for the getrag, which would include all getrags (Ecotec or non Ecotec). Which is why I kept posting because you only responded to the Quaiffe part. The reason I say the Team Green would work on the Ecotec getrag is because it has been posted on here many times about the getrag (Ecotec and Non-Ecotec being the same). I know I'm sawping the internals from a Ecotec Getrag into my 2.4 getrag. Iw as trying to help, you can thank yourself for ruining another post on the org like typical ORG members do.Good luck on your issues. I have a feeling you will always have them.



FU Tuning




Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:41 PM
John Higgins wrote:

In regards to the swap you want to do I think the tranny will fit in the J, but making a clutch could be a issue.


Ummmmm, j-body flywheel and pressure plate, and Cobalt clutch plate???




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!

Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Monday, August 07, 2006 8:31 AM
John Higgins wrote:

I know I'm sawping the internals from a Ecotec Getrag into my 2.4 getrag. I


Why not just swap bellhousings, the rest of the tranny is identical, and the bellhousing is a seperate peice external to the tranny case.

I didn't read anything that John posted that warranted that kind of outburst, looked like he was just trying to help, take a step back and relax before posting maybe.


15.3 @ 89.97mph, 14's on the way?
Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Monday, August 07, 2006 2:50 PM
Ian Brydon wrote:

John Higgins wrote:

I know I'm sawping the internals from a Ecotec Getrag into my 2.4 getrag. I


Why not just swap bellhousings, the rest of the tranny is identical, and the bellhousing is a seperate peice external to the tranny case.

I didn't read anything that John posted that warranted that kind of outburst, looked like he was just trying to help, take a step back and relax before posting maybe.


Nornally I would attempt this (to make sure it would work), but the outside of the spare tranny is no good, so have to swap internals, and thiking about a Team Green LSD as well for my car.



FU Tuning



Re: Doing som getrag research - my seemingly good
Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:17 PM
What do you need to know from Engineered? Their shop is about 30min from me


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200

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