A key symptom the OP mentions is his clutch pedal. A worn clutch could be dragging and not releasing cleanly enough to "unload" the tension in the transmission; this can cause hard shifting.
The Getrag is a fine piece in its own right. We've pounded 750 HP through them with no failures. Don't fool yourself into thinking its a crappy trans just because it comes in an economy car!
Its still crap to me. I don't care if someone pushed over 1k hp. My stock one kept popping out of 2nd gear once power was applyed you couldn't even hold it in gear that was with only 150k miles on the clock. My 2nd one I have a feeling is going out its made noises all the time like the getrag tranny noise post. My friends mom her Saturn vue has a getrag and she has been through 3 of em. To me there junk. I'll never have one again.
yup, the trans is junk because the synchro got worn out.
you know what wears out synchros, right?
sounds to me like the user(s), not the transmission.
the only time I've ever had problems with the F23 was when I didn't shift right. busted the tips off a shift fork.. lost 1 and 2.
the other is when I had the skwirl too low, and bottomed out several times really bad and cracked the trans casing.
the getrag is one of the best things that happened to the Jbody platform.. if you think otherwise, well... I can't say I'm surprised with this group of "enthusiasts".
Im on #7 or 8 in my 02. The last dealer I worked at replaced several and I know a few people that have gone through a few F23s. Its not as great of a trans as its made out to be. My moms SSlowbalt @!#$s feel just as loose as my car always has. My Isuzu on the other hand has always had a very positive shift feel to it.
You may have some bad shifting habits?
I talk to customers daily with these units who, even with 230-400 WHP, experience none of these issues. They granny shift them and don't court disaster. How do you shift yours to go through eight transmissions?
If I had bad shifting habbits then my 98 should have gone through a few synchros by now and my truck should be needing a new trans as well. Even my mom complains about how her SSlowbalt shifts. The getrag just isnt all that smooth of a transmission. Also, I never stated that all of mine failed due to synchro issues. However I do find it odd when you loose 5th gear synchro. That would be the least abused one and on one of my transmissions it just "failed" one day. No warning, just suddenly decided to not stay in 5th once power was applied.
"I would totally eat a marshmallow fairy." - Pintsize
I suppose the fact that you are slam-shifting your truck as well indicates the most about your shifting. I also get the feeling (and I may be totally wrong!) that Mom didn't mash the synchros in her car either...how much have you driven that one?
All kidding aside, yes...these transmissions are less tolerant of slam-shifting than the others you're used to thrashing.
Nonetheless, I'd have started to be a little easier on the shifting around..oh, I don't know...the third or fourth transmission!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, October 12, 2009 7:11 AM
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988 www.turbosystem.com
Something I recently come to realize about shifting issues, which tend to lead to messe up shift forks tips is clutch fluid. It does not really get hot like the brakes, but none the less it needs to be flushed. just did mine recently. Had black crap floating in it. Now it is nice and clear. Thing was from the outside it looked ok, but once I opened it and looked in I could see different.
I will admit I have over looked this, and this can change the way the clutch system functions.
I dont slam @!#$ any of my cars. I had "abused" the first Isuzu and a few of the Getrags and have had a few #2 synchros go but most of mine had some differential issue as well. The Isuzu was just a diff. failure due to an error on my part. The last few that went were even with very easy driving, I never abused the last few. My mom drivers her car a lot harder than I have ever driven it and my 98 used to be hers before i purchased it from her.
My transmissions I am used to "thrashing" are the Isuzu in my 98 Z24, the Getrag in my 02 Z24, and the NVG 3500 in my 96 K1500. So far I like the NVG3500 and Isuzu the best as far as shift feel and reliability. Most people I know that have driven a Getrag car will have some complaint about teh shift feel. It just isnt that precise and it feels rough.
"I would totally eat a marshmallow fairy." - Pintsize
I mean, maybe somethings failing within my system. What i feel/expirience cant be the same thing you guys are talking about. Granted, im a young kid. This is my first standard. I just cant help but wonder how the accord sedan down the street can feel HAT much better under the same driver.
Maybe its time JayJay sees a tranny guy.
I dont even know what a damn synchro is.. i know nothing about transmissions.
Aside from that though, ive heard from many, many people that the getrag is the best tranny a J has ever seen. Theyre not just pulling that out of thier %#$.
The cobalts use a getrag but not the same one. I think they shift considerably better than the F23 which is what the 2000+ jbodys have.
I used ATF 4 in mine and it seems to work well. The only problem I ever had with shifter feel was due to a clutch that was not fully releasing. My trans has taken a beating and is still going strong.
How did you determine the clutch wasn't releasing fully? I am starting to think my spec clutch is doing that espically when the car is on a slight incline from side to side if the driver side is lower than the passenger side my clutch feels like it grabs as soon as I let the clutch pedal go all the way to the top.
It got harder and harder to shift. I replaced the clutch master cylinder and line thinking it might have been pulling air into the system. When that did not fix it after being bled multiple times and no air coming out I decided it might be the synchros. Went to remove the trans and noticed that my pressure plate bolts had backed partially out. I tightened them up and it was much better but the feel was not the same so I removed the pressure plate and installed a new one. It works great now.
Having driven both the isuzu and getrag I prefer the getrag hands down.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I mean, maybe somethings failing within my system. What i feel/expirience cant be the same thing you guys are talking about. Granted, im a young kid. This is my first standard. I just cant help but wonder how the accord sedan down the street can feel HAT much better under the same driver.
Maybe its time JayJay sees a tranny guy.
I dont even know what a damn synchro is.. i know nothing about transmissions.
Aside from that though, ive heard from many, many people that the getrag is the best tranny a J has ever seen. Theyre not just pulling that out of thier %#$.
i wanna drive someone elses J. Just to know.
Comparing a good condition Honda trans to a getrag is night and day. I have a driven and integra with a short shifter that you grab it like a joystick and no more than flick your wrist to shift and it was smooth as butter and precise feeling. Even my Lancer Evolution does not shift like that Honda.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
Something I recently come to realize about shifting issues, which tend to lead to messe up shift forks tips is clutch fluid. It does not really get hot like the brakes, but none the less it needs to be flushed. just did mine recently. Had black crap floating in it. Now it is nice and clear. Thing was from the outside it looked ok, but once I opened it and looked in I could see different.
I will admit I have over looked this, and this can change the way the clutch system functions.
What's the best way to do this? I've Got stuff in mine and never thought about changing the fluid.
Something I recently come to realize about shifting issues, which tend to lead to messe up shift forks tips is clutch fluid. It does not really get hot like the brakes, but none the less it needs to be flushed. just did mine recently. Had black crap floating in it. Now it is nice and clear. Thing was from the outside it looked ok, but once I opened it and looked in I could see different.
I will admit I have over looked this, and this can change the way the clutch system functions.
What's the best way to do this? I've Got stuff in mine and never thought about changing the fluid.
What I did was open the bleeder valve and let it gravity drain until it emptied. Cleaned the container out filled with new fluid let it gravity drain for a while, then bleed it by pumping pedal 3 times and holding it down while opening the valve, and repeat until I got the pedal I wanted. Pedal feel changed alot after this.
I'd offer that everyone should do this at least once or twice in their car's life. Same goes for brake fluid.
In luxury makes such as Benz, Porsche, BMW, etc, they routinely flush these fluids every two years or so. They know how to take care of their cars and keep them performing at their utmost
Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft
World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988 www.turbosystem.com
Something I recently come to realize about shifting issues, which tend to lead to messe up shift forks tips is clutch fluid. It does not really get hot like the brakes, but none the less it needs to be flushed. just did mine recently. Had black crap floating in it. Now it is nice and clear. Thing was from the outside it looked ok, but once I opened it and looked in I could see different.
I will admit I have over looked this, and this can change the way the clutch system functions.
What's the best way to do this? I've Got stuff in mine and never thought about changing the fluid.
What I did was open the bleeder valve and let it gravity drain until it emptied. Cleaned the container out filled with new fluid let it gravity drain for a while, then bleed it by pumping pedal 3 times and holding it down while opening the valve, and repeat until I got the pedal I wanted. Pedal feel changed alot after this.
i rate the shifting feel and tranny as a 10 (on a number of Jettas and GTIs)
if thats the scale then i must put Js about a 2
which is hilarious, considering that Getrag is a GERMAN company, and used in many german vehicles.
whats hilarious is that you are missing the point completely and dont exactly know your stuff...
VWs drive like a DREAM. thats german.
yes Getrag is a German "founded" company. but F23s are primarily manufactured in Italy and are used in newer Cavaliers / Cobalts / Sunfire / G5 / Grand Ams ect...
so my point stands.... ive driven early 90s Civcs, early 2000 Jettas, 2004 GTI....all good. GTI was absolute perfection though.
both cavaliers and the cobalt i have driven?
garbage.
i rate the shifting feel and tranny as a 10 (on a number of Jettas and GTIs)
if thats the scale then i must put Js about a 2
which is hilarious, considering that Getrag is a GERMAN company, and used in many german vehicles.
whats hilarious is that you are missing the point completely and dont exactly know your stuff...
VWs drive like a DREAM. thats german.
yes Getrag is a German "founded" company. but F23s are primarily manufactured in Italy and are used in newer Cavaliers / Cobalts / Sunfire / G5 / Grand Ams ect...
so my point stands.... ive driven early 90s Civcs, early 2000 Jettas, 2004 GTI....all good. GTI was absolute perfection though.
both cavaliers and the cobalt i have driven?
garbage.
) at 26K.....
