throw is the angle the shifter has to move, NOT the distance the top of the stick moves.
the height above the pivot only effects the effort needed to shift, not the throw.
PJ that was a much calmer response than I anticipated.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
Thats cuz PJ is tolerable to annoying requests and other stuff. SPEAKING OF.......
Mine done yet?
changed some of the hardware around today.
side to side play is still there but its tighter now, so you have to use more effort in order to feel it...
I also noticed some more interferance along the bottom of the stick. I didn't originally plan on using a rod end that way so my side to side clearance is a little off.
overall, the stick is a bit tighter now. I'm gonna see if I can not mess with it for the remaining 29 days. If it makes it then I'll see about starting a GP.
thats badass man. very nice work. i'm totally in for an isuzu one. can't wait to see what the next month brings.
i was just considering a short throw and BAM found this thread, id love to buy one. any idea on pricing yet?
pricing is still up in the air... cost is actually going to go down a bit since I eliminated 2 of the bearings ($10 right there alone) and material cost is going to go down slightly since I reduced the height of the uprights to fit under the console.
My initial estimation is slightly more expensive than the B&M shifter was... so in the neighborhood of $175-$225 but again, I'm not 100% on that yet until I can do a more accurate pricing on the materials and laboring/ tooling costs.
but you get a lot more for the money... all pivots are double sealed bearings and spherical rod ends.
the B&M was just the stick, this replaces the entire stock unit so installation is simpler. You don't have to pull apart the stock plastic peices..
remove the center console, two plastic clips on the cables and 4 bolts and the stock shifter is out. Bolt this one in, slide on the cable adapters, connect them together and done.
I'm willing to bet install can be completed in less than half an hour.
shifter feel is vastly improved too... no rubber isolation bushings on the bottom of the base. the base isn't made of plastic.. the entire shifter is made of steel. Its pretty heavy, but I'm going to see about reducing weight slightly on the production versions.. ultimately I don't want to sacrifice rigidity for the sake of weight, and unfortunately aluminum is out of the question.... the costs will double.
so I can get a better idea as to how many of these things I'm looking at producing, lets get a FEELER list going.. it'll help me get my materials together.
I may do a limited initial GP (5 units) just to get a few out there so I can have some feedback and testing from other parties. If I'm pleased with how that goes and assuming I don't kill myself making them (these will all be hand made by me) I will run another larger GP.
Getrag Full Metal Shifter - FEELER LIST.
Projected cost $175-$225
1. Vince Morris (I already know you want the first one man lol)
2.
3.
4.
5.
Isuzu guys: I realized I have a friend who has a 98 sunfire thats stickshift so once I can get something worked out with him I'll be looking into an Isuzu version in the near future. Assuming the Getrag FMS does well I'll use the lessons learned there for the Isuzu version, so I may jump into a larger GP right off the bat with the Isuzu.
Disclaimer:
To keep costs as low as possible, I am making these all by hand with the machinery I have access to at my job. This means that I will do my best to have holes perfectly centered and things mounted square. HOWEVER, speaking realistically, there will be slight deviations from one unit to the next since I'm making them by hand. If you cannot accept this, then do not sign up.
1. Vince Morris (I already know you want the first one man lol)
2. Jon Leith (Leafy) (even if I have to steal money from my tuition payment)
3.
4.
5.
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DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:throw is the angle the shifter has to move, NOT the distance the top of the stick moves.
the height above the pivot only effects the effort needed to shift, not the throw.
we argued about this years ago and you are still slightly wrong, throw is not only the angle that the shifter has to travel but it also the linear movement it travels, so yes changing the height above your pivot point helps to reduce the linear throw thus reducing the travel of your shifter to completely engage into the next gear. The whole goal in a short shifter is to shorten the movement that you do while still fully engaging into the next gear. changing the angle is the most effective way in reducing throw but the height above the shaft also aids in linear throw.
back to your simple lever, the pivot point as well as the height above effects effort and throw.
Quote:
What is a short shifter?
This is a question that we at TWM Performance hear from curious customers every day. The desired effect of a short shifter is to reduce the distance your hand needs to move to engage the next gear, thus reducing the amount of time spent shifting, reducing wasted time between shifts, and resulting in improved performance. A common misconception in the tuning world is that a short shifter is just a chopped off version of the stock shifter. In fact, chopping your shifter has no effect on the angle that your shifter shaft travels through between gears and therefore does not reduce the shifter's angular throw. here is where you stopped reading, angular throw
A true short shifter decreases throw by reducing the angle that the shifter shaft travels through during its stroke between gears. By reducing the angle that the shaft travels through between gears, the distance that your hand needs to move between gears is also reduced. In many cases, the shifter shaft is also re-designed to be shorter than stock thus creating a sportier look and feel, as well as aiding in reducing the linear throw length when coupled with the reduced angular throw.
The geometry of a short shifter differs from the stock shifter in order to reduce the distance that the upper section where your shift knob threads on needs to move to achieve the same degree of movement in the lower section where the shift rod or shifter cables attach. This ensures that although your hand is moving a shorter distance, the transmission is still fully engaged in every gear. The main pivot point, or fulcrum of the shifter lever is re-positioned on the shaft in such a way that the lower section which connects to the shift rod or shifter cables is longer than stock, resulting in the desired effect. A TWM short shifter is carefully designed to create the optimal throw length, angular shift throw, and shift knob height resulting in the ultimate short shifter.
The end result is a shorter, more precise shift, which requires a shorter hand movement to engage the next gear, and looks and feels sportier than the unsightly long shifter shaft most cars come stock with.
carry on, good work on the shifter.
wohoo you got me as #1 lol good call! get it all wrapped up and get mine made lol. If you dont do a how to, i will.
also, dont OVER work it. Seems like you keep changing and changing and changing. Just dont go over thinking it and over working it and causing yourself unnecessary work or extra work.
So plan on using the super beater for the isuzu huh? It is just sitting around right now so im sure joe wouldn't mind.
I <3 JGM
I think bigfoot is blurry,
that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra
scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster, roaming the countryside.
"Run! He's fuzzy!" "Get outta here!"
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cool beans that means i can get more body work done on it.
I <3 JGM
I think bigfoot is blurry,
that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra
scary to me. There's a large, out-of-focus monster, roaming the countryside.
"Run! He's fuzzy!" "Get outta here!"
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
well see i prefer a 'short' shifter. dont ask me why, just personal preference. so thats why i ask... but if its shorter than the b&m i wont need to shorten it. should be just fine.
Underdog Racing
1. Vince Morris (I already know you want the first one man lol)
2. Jon Leith (Leafy) (even if I have to steal money from my tuition payment)
3. Jonathan French
4.
5.
Again as long as this works well for a daily driver application and I can use the stock shift knob. Will the reverse lockout thingamajigger work too?
MiniTransAm/02WS6TA wrote:Again as long as this works well for a daily driver application and I can use the stock shift knob. Will the reverse lockout thingamajigger work too?
it'll shift the gears, so yes it'll work in a daily driver.
so far as the stock knob goes, the verdict is still out on that... if it doesn't utilize the stock knob it will come with something very similar.
and to answer your other question, the very first post in this thread:
DaFlyinSkwirl(PJ) wrote:There will be no reverse lock-out.
Zyaaaa wrote:well see i prefer a 'short' shifter. dont ask me why, just personal preference. so thats why i ask... but if its shorter than the b&m i wont need to shorten it. should be just fine.
again, in a previous post I had said that side of the shifter wasn't sized yet. this is a shot of the shifter installed with the new larger stick cut to size.
its roughly the same height as the B&M. the boot sits higher because mine does not have a reverse lock-out mechanism.
So how would the boot be secured on the shaft?
Are you going to make a little piece welded on the shaft to where the boot would grab on too?
13.520 @ 98mph! 220whp 234tq
02cavcruzin wrote:So how would the boot be secured on the shaft?
Are you going to make a little piece welded on the shaft to where the boot would grab on too?
it depends on what I do about the knob. I like threaded knobs better since they don't loosen up as much as slip-fit knobs do.
Yeah me to, I hate the slip fit knobs.
I just wouldn't like for the boot to be loose and have the shift rod exposed...
13.520 @ 98mph! 220whp 234tq
02cavcruzin wrote:Yeah me to, I hate the slip fit knobs.
I just wouldn't like for the boot to be loose and have the shift rod exposed...
the stock shifter and B&M or knock off versions, the shift rod IS exposed.. the only difference is its the lock out mechanism so it dresses up the stick a little bit.
I'm working on something but I can't make any promises it'll work AND look good.. I'll post up results as soon as I can. But I said in the first post... I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get the stock boot to work.
Well damn, I'm sure you will figure something out!
13.520 @ 98mph! 220whp 234tq
1. Vince Morris (I already know you want the first one man lol)
2. Jon Leith (Leafy) (even if I have to steal money from my tuition payment)
3. Jonathan French
4.Dave De Stefano(and i don't even have a manual yet!lol!)
5.
Depending on the final cost I would be interested. Also would you have a way to add a small bend in the stick, to angle it back towards the driver a little bit ? Where I tend to sit in my Cav, I have to kinda lean forward a little to shift into 3rd & 5th. Below is a picture of the stock shifter showing height from mounting base & I removed my reverse lock, thing was far more simple to do then I was thinking !
that video illustrates the play I'm talking about beautifully. B&M shifters are the same left to right. partially because of the cable, partially becuase of the ballsocket moving in the base of the shifter (if you watch when he wiggles the stick left to right in gear you can see the ball moving around down there... it isn't supposed to do that, but is a side effect of the way it was designed).
as far as the angle of the stick goes, there will be some amount of adjustability on the cable connection. to move the stick a bit further back, you can move the connection on the cable slightly (similar to the stock plastic clips). But if it still isn't enough I can make a one-off stick for the assembly pretty easily.
the other thing working in your favor is the throw is a LOT shorter than stock, and a bit shorter than the B&M, so to hit the upper gears its not as far of a push.
