Whats this fulcrum you speak of?

Brian,



PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

well yeah but for me it made it eaiser to shift idk why but it did and i may not know my trans. facts but i know my ups and downs of the 2.4 motor

This theory works with any car, any manual transmission.


"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"

patrick bush wrote:well yeah but for me it made it eaiser to shift idk why but it did and i may not know my trans. facts but i know my ups and downs of the 2.4 motor

By easier you mean harder.... Apparently you do not know your ups and downs at all.




PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO

dude did u not understand what i put because i have a truck not a 2.4 im trading my truck for a J body but till then i have headers

im trading my truck for a 2.4 cavy z24

Patrick..loves teh cawk

hahah ur funny...not and no i dont i read in a book that the only people that likes teh cawk or however u spelled it is the ones that like to talk about it

patrick bush wrote:hahah ur funny...not and no i dont i read in a book that the only people that likes teh cawk or however u spelled it is the ones that like to talk about it

then i'm sure you won't mind explaining how a cut down stick shortens trow instead of just decreasing the leverage?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, May 28, 2011 2:40 PM


JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

hell bro i never said it shortened the throw

Patrick bush, go play in traffic. Or learn to type... or learn to read.... or SOMETHING!

larger tires rotate less at the same speed then a smaller tire,

same reason a shorter shifter shortens the throw. by increasing the leverage you increase the lenth of the shifter, so if you say he lost leverage then you admit he shortened the throw distance

hey ss why dont you shut the @!#$ up you dont know me so why sont u get a map and find @!#$ off

To OP, you can not cut your shifter anyways cause its a plastic unit, the 99 and older j bodies can because they have a metal shaft.

As for the argument about a cut/shorten shifter not being a shorter throw, you are wrong. It still shortens the actually throw on the upper part of the shifter. It is not as effective as a "true" Short throw shifter which lowers the shifter height plus increases the pivot point, but it still does shorten the throw.

Will cutting the shaft down make a big difference? not really, but it will still make a small decrease in the throw.
If you say there is no difference, think about this, add 10" to the top of the shaft, you will now have probably +15" of travel from 1st to 2nd.
I don't have exact measurements so i am just making up numbers but lets say your stock shifter is 6" tall above the pivot point and requires 5" of movement to go from 1st to 2nd, if you cut the shifter down to 4", the distance from 1st to 2nd is now about 4", making shifts shorter/quicker. Saying that, if you increase the height below the pivot point, it will make a much bigger difference.
Changing the heights on both sides of the pivot point will make a difference though. For shorter throw, the point about the above the pivot needs to be shorter and/or point below needs to be longer. vice versa if you wanted a longer throw.
I don't have fancy CAD drawings and I am not the smartest guy in the world but this is basic physics, don't know why so many people are wrong with this.
For the CAD drawings on page 1, the one image showing the difference with a short throw shifter, the distance below the pivot would not increase, it would stay the same as the stock shifter, the tranny would not let it go any farther. However, the distance above will decrease. Look at the picture with the stock shifter, imagine the rod above is 6", cut it down to 4" and look at the decrease in distance it takes to shift.
A "cut shifter" will require more force to shift, yes, but a "short throw shifter" will also require more force to shift as well, anything you do to increace the pivot point will shorten the throw and require more force.

Hope this make's sence....




2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

No rick, this doesn't make SENCE.

Patrick, don't you have headerS to install on your cavalier? Hahaha

So assuming the lenght is the same below the pivot point, it would not make a differance in shifting if the rod above the pivot point was 4" or 15"?? You would be able to shift the same?? Doesn't matter if the distance between 1st and 2nd is 4" or +10"???


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

the thing is, the throw is measured in degrees, not inches. extending the length below the pivot point means the upper portion has to follow a shorter path (in degrees) to go between gears. here's a practical experiment anyone can do: take a pen and a AA battery. use the battery as an indicator of the same throw LENGTH. hold the pen with two fingers an inch from the bottom, and hold it just above the battery. move the top of the pen, and not how far you have to swing it IN DEGREES to reach end to end on the battery. now, holding the pen an inch from the top, and now try again, imagining the pen were extended the same length above the pivot point (my actual short throw is the same length up top as my factory one, just bent back further) the throw in INCHES is only slightly shorter, but in DEGREES, it's much less.



JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

I agree the angle is the same no matter how long the shaft is above the pivot point. But it still makes shifting faster/shorter distance with a shorter rod. It is more effective when you extend the rod below the pivot but I think there is still a benefit if a person cuts the rod down. It is not as great as a true short throw but if its free/cheap, why not?


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

Rick wrote:I agree the angle is the same no matter how long the shaft is above the pivot point. But it still makes shifting faster/shorter distance with a shorter rod. It is more effective when you extend the rod below the pivot but I think there is still a benefit if a person cuts the rod down. It is not as great as a true short throw but if its free/cheap, why not?

but the angle IS NOT the same.



JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

On the stock shifter(same length below pivot ) whether the length above pivot is 4" or 10", the angle IS the same...... the distance the shift knob has to go between 1st&2nd is the only thing that changes.



2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

Rick wrote:On the stock shifter(same length below pivot ) whether the length above pivot is 4" or 10", the angle IS the same...... the distance the shift knob has to go between 1st&2nd is the only thing that changes.

who's talking about a stock shifter? i'm citing WHY a true short throw actually works instead of just decreasing leverage (cut down stick)



JBO Stickers! Get yours today!

I mis read your post above and thought you were saying that a cut shifter has the same angle and that is why its not a short throw when you were talking about the angles. Both a cut shifter and a short throw both decrease leverage and both decrease the distance needed to shift from 1st to 2nd. IMO leverage is not that important, you are shifting a transmission, not using a big pry bar to pry on something. I dont have any proof/drawings to back up my thoughts but IMO, a true short shifter will actually have even less leverage than just a cut down shifter, anything thing with a shorter throw will. What does most short throw shifter's advertise, like a 45-50% reduction in throw? that is how much leverage your would lose.
The distance the shifter moves below the pivot will never change because the transmission only allows it to move so far but the distance above (the shift knob) does change and that is how the short throw is measured IMO. By just cutting dow the know, it still decreases the throw but not as much as it would by adding some length to the rod under the pivot. If the B&M for eamaple is a 45-50% reduction in throw, by making a guess, I would say just a cut down shifter will make around 10-20% reduction in throw(again just a guess, could be more or less)

Angles will be differant on a short throw shifter, yes but IMO, angles dont make a differance, Its the differance between how far you have to move the shift knob to shift (throw).

I am going to try to contact B&M to see if they think my thereoy is true or if I'm just crazy.


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

I worded that last part wrong, The actual angles dont matter to me but the reduced throw resulting by changing the angles matter. There is angular throw (changing the pivot point) and linear throw (shorten the shaft above the pivot point). Both of these shorten the throw. Linear throw does not make a big diffance compared to the angular throw but it still does make a differance.


2000 Cavalier Z24 5spd - Intake, Dynomax muffler, Hawk Pads, Powerslot rotors, Sportlines/Koni reds, Neon Coil, MSD 8.5 Wires - **SOLD**
2014 Kia Forte Koup SX 6spd - 1.6L Turbo - My new car
2015 Kia Sorento EX V6 AWD - Wifes Car

i have a belly button...


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.