Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha - Transmission Forum

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Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Friday, April 11, 2014 6:33 PM
Whats up fellows and would be grease monkeys !!! I have an issue here with my Getrag f23 m/86, I did a swell job of bleeding the system and had an extremely good pedal ..... went to the car wash and cleaned er' up and now the pedal feels soft again (wah)

Little history ...... I just replaced this trans into the car (used) cuz my old f23 would not get into 5th and Reverse, figured a bad shift fork, so I rolled the dice on a 100k mile f23 and luckily all gears work !! .... and well also, however, I did not swap slaves in the process and I'm thinking this could be the issue ?? Perhaps I need to bleed a few times to get all the air out? Just seems weird to have such a good pedal and then for it to go away ....

I used the line out of the Brake fluid bottle to bleeder fitting technique and cycled (bled) the lines "numerous" times and as I stated, the pedal was excellent.

Do the experts here feel that I should keep going at this and might possibly win the fight ? .... or must I pull the trans "again" and install a new slave ??




Thanks for any info guy's !!! Much appreciated

GD

Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Saturday, April 12, 2014 7:13 PM
So you still have a pedal that works, just not the same feel?

If so I would say bleed it some more.



FU Tuning



Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Sunday, April 13, 2014 3:09 AM
I'd agree, these systems can be tough to bleed.

Sucks you didn't change the slave out. It's almost something you should always do while you have access to it.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Sunday, April 13, 2014 7:59 PM
Pedal still failing ... bled system a couple more times with pedal right up top only to get bad again.....

I'll do it a couple more times during the week just for @!#$s and giggles but I'm fairly certain my procedure is more than effective. I can replace the slave next Sun when I'll have time and now that I know the tool layout, I'm sure I can be bleeding a new slave in 3 hrs or less .... these cars are actually very simple


Thanks guys for any input
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Monday, April 14, 2014 5:20 AM
A bad slave/TOB on these cars will normally leak out the bottom of the tranny.


So my question is once you bleed it and it goes "bad" do you still have some pedal, just really poor?

I have never had a bad TOB bleed up to a good pedal. They always leak and never build a pedal. This leads me to believe you have a master cylinder issue.



FU Tuning



Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Monday, April 14, 2014 7:11 PM
Addicted to meth wrote:

A bad slave/TOB on these cars will normally leak out the bottom of the tranny.


So my question is once you bleed it and it goes "bad" do you still have some pedal, just really poor?

I have never had a bad TOB bleed up to a good pedal. They always leak and never build a pedal. This leads me to believe you have a master cylinder issue.


You may be on to something here my man ..... Today, I started with good pedal and then had some gradual fade on the stroke .... however, I am now stroking the pedal multiple times while driving and it brings the pedal back up ?? The strokes I'm using only go from the very top (where the pedal reside's normally) to only the "begging" of engagement on the clutch. Doing this multiple times between shifts "does" bring the pedal back, without bleeding


Another observation,.... while having the front end jacked up with suspension hanging low, I could see over the tire where the rear strut tower panel meets the framerail ... there appears to be a bit of "saturation" of fluid. Not fresh but like a buildup over time, just in that area? Now this wasn't a detailed inspection (yet), but I think I will be looking closer into that saturated appearance tomorrow.


Oh, there is a slight drip at the base of the case, but I might attribute that to the residual from the bleed(s)
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:14 AM
I would say most of the points to the master cylinder.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:04 PM
gary scherbarth wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

A bad slave/TOB on these cars will normally leak out the bottom of the tranny.


So my question is once you bleed it and it goes "bad" do you still have some pedal, just really poor?

I have never had a bad TOB bleed up to a good pedal. They always leak and never build a pedal. This leads me to believe you have a master cylinder issue.


You may be on to something here my man ..... Today, I started with good pedal and then had some gradual fade on the stroke .... however, I am now stroking the pedal multiple times while driving and it brings the pedal back up ?? The strokes I'm using only go from the very top (where the pedal reside's normally) to only the "begging" of engagement on the clutch. Doing this multiple times between shifts "does" bring the pedal back, without bleeding


Another observation,.... while having the front end jacked up with suspension hanging low, I could see over the tire where the rear strut tower panel meets the framerail ... there appears to be a bit of "saturation" of fluid. Not fresh but like a buildup over time, just in that area? Now this wasn't a detailed inspection (yet), but I think I will be looking closer into that saturated appearance tomorrow.


Oh, there is a slight drip at the base of the case, but I might attribute that to the residual from the bleed(s)



I think it is your master that this point.

If the TOB has a leak it is done and would not allow you to build a pedal up.



FU Tuning



Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:24 PM
Well, I know this is gonna sound kinda nuts but,? It seems to be working fine at this point ?? I'm not really sure what the hell is going on here but the pedal is "staying" right up top at this point ..... ? Better that it had with the other trans also . It's sort of got me puzzled cuz I'm a firm believer that if it's showing an issue it doesn't just dissapear. I've been working with cars for some 35 yrs now and wondering what's up, not that I'm complaining, just a little miffed

I looked at the area around the firewall and apron just behind the strut tower and the saturation area appears to be some spilled fluid not any direct leak .... hmmmm

I guess I'll just keep driving and see if there is any difference here in the next day or 2 and report back but as of right now all looks good ?? ... crazy



Ok, while I'm here .... I'm wanting to pull apart the old Getrag and do an inspection of the internals to see what is up with that.... I was attempting to split the case and something seems to be hanging up ? I have all the bolts out and the snap-ring behind the cap inside the case, but it still seems like something is holding them from separating .... Any quick ideas ??


GD
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:35 PM
Either the slave or master is going bad those are the only options really unless you still had air in the line. Did you check the master cylinder? Sometimes the plastic tabs that bolt it to the firewall break off.

For the trans, there's a hidden allen bolt that's super tight behind what looks like a freeze out plug on the bell housing side. It's right next to the input shaft. The new plug is a little under 30 bucks from gm. I kid you not, the suggestion from gm is to poke a hole in the middle of it to get it out, then silicone it back up and reinstall it when you're ready to put it back together. Picture I have is too big to attach via mobile. If you need a picture email me at r.pitt@live.com.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:41 PM
Y3llowCav wrote:

Either the slave or master is going bad those are the only options really unless you still had air in the line. Did you check the master cylinder? Sometimes the plastic tabs that bolt it to the firewall break off.

For the trans, there's a hidden allen bolt that's super tight behind what looks like a freeze out plug on the bell housing side. It's right next to the input shaft. The new plug is a little under 30 bucks from gm. I kid you not, the suggestion from gm is to poke a hole in the middle of it to get it out, then silicone it back up and reinstall it when you're ready to put it back together. Picture I have is too big to attach via mobile. If you need a picture email me at r.pitt@live.com.


No I haven't really dup to the firewall yet, need to take off the cowl screening up top to access that I suppose ??


\I found that plug/cap and got it off with a small crow-fork tool in one piece (no holes) ... i will re-use it later on... Is the bolt you reffer to the 8mm allen in the center of the bearing ??


GD

Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:46 PM
Also, when I pulled out the magnetic pickup sensor (retained with bolt & fork), there was a decent amount of shavings on that bad boy .... curious to see whats inside
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Wednesday, April 16, 2014 4:19 AM
gary scherbarth wrote:

Is the bolt you reffer to the 8mm allen in the center of the bearing ??

Yes. I just took mine apart 2 weeks ago so I took pictures. Just couldn't attach them via mobile last night because they were too big.















"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Bleeding issue 05 Cavalier ..... 1st post !! Yee Ha
Wednesday, April 16, 2014 5:27 PM
Thanks for pics .... yeh, I would of had it apart last night but I didn't have my reducer to for my Impact. Once I did get home from work I went at it and got the bolt out and the case came apart rather easily, then on to inspection ....

Diagnosis; R-5 shift fork is missing the Nylon tips on either side of the fork, so when trying to get into gear with the shifter, there was too much slop to move the gears far enough to engage .... fore and aft. I did find small pieces of the nylon debris randomly inside the case... also a decent amount of fine shards/slivers of steel on the magnet close to the Ring gear. I also concluded that it's going to take a little disassemly to get the shift fork out to replace it, wonder how many you boy's have done it and can give a couple tips ?? ... I'm absolutely sure I can do this, no problem, just wonering about availability of parts



As far as the clutch pedal as present with the new trans in ...... it's still very much up to snuff with no fade, not even any minor pumping between shifts. It seems it just needed some time to work as it should
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