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Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 2:54 PM
forgot , if this was supposed to be for a fiero , its gotta be earlier than 88 since that is when they quit making them







Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:21 PM
ummm pure sex









Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:23 PM
97cavie24ls() wrote:

forgot , if this was supposed to be for a fiero , its gotta be earlier than 88 since that is when they quit making them


I was thinking this also. Unless they were trying to revive it in the early 90s.



Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:35 PM
thats kinda crazy. do want more pics! i hope those numbers are accurate, thatd be awesome.

looking again, it looks like a quad bell housing pattern. very cool.

it looks damn close.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, February 09, 2011 3:42 PM


Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:18 PM
First and foremost... the best thread in a LONG time on this section. Us Quad-4 guys get a kick to see this $hit. And really I never come to this section but because I saw "Prototype Quad4" on the right side of the home page, I had to click.
Second, if my memory serves me correct, GM had a Quad 4 derived engine, but a prototype engine for the Saturn. This engine has too many similarities to the 1991 DOHC design Saturn I4. And I would not be surprised if this was it. At the time I read this in a magazine in the 80s it was in black and white and details were sketchy.

I prefer this engine's water-pump location, just wonder if it was pulley driven, instead of the dreaded & F-ing chain driven design.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 4:24 PM
newt wrote:

Looks like some weird Quad 4 / Saturn 1.9DOHC Hybrid......actually it looks more like a 1.9 Saturn motor than anything.

Very interesting tho, I'll be watching this thread...I love prototype stuff like this.

My buddy is the one that ended up with that experimental GM Quad 4 they build for testing transmissions, Supposedly made 250hp all motor. Sadly tho it got stripped, and the remaining bits sit in a box at his house.

I think Brad (zyaaa) you ended up with the intake manifold from that motor.


What doesnt this thing look like lol? Personally I think alot of GMs late 90's four cylinders may have derived from this. Do I know for sure no, but thats where logic would lead me to think. Everything that you guys have thought i've said to myself over and over. I mean we have saturn, ecotech, and quad in this thing, it's really mind numbing. I got an amazing deal on this thing for one, and if it turns out to be what its suppose to be, even if i blow it up in my car it will still be bad ass sitting in the corner of my garage. I would rather it be destroyed doing what it was intended than never see the light of day.

I finally got some time away from one of my jobs and have some free time to catch up on other things, but tomarrow ill go out and take some more pictures for ya guys. Mabey ill drop it off the stand and fit a tranny up to it as well.
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:30 PM
how about engine mount? does it have any?
we wants more pics!!!



Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:59 PM
Thats a different waterpump bolt pattern than the saturn 1.9, also the timing cover reminds me alot of the SOHC saturn engine, the head/cam setup is damn near identical to the DOHC saturn engine. Im curious to see the bottom end of it and see what oil pump setup it has. does the timing cover and oil pan use a gasket or just silicone(Straight saturn style lol). On the water pump you could probably get it sent off and rebuilt with new seals and impeller.Does the upper motor mount attach with 3 bolts vertically to the timing cover?




Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:26 PM
I think we talked about this motor at the Bash actually. From info I gathered it would only make 150-160BHP.

Looks like a SHC to me, but would like to see more pictures.



FU Tuning



Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:30 PM
I'll also add that when this engine was in development (mid, late 80s), the US Ecotec was not even a twinkle in GM's eye. Being that the Quad-4 was a Oldsmobile engine, and early Saturn prototypes of the early 80s looked like a small Olsmobile (what it looked like on a J-chassis) I would not be surprised this was a offspring of the Quad-4 destined for the Saturn. I wished I would have saved all of the crap on GM from back in the day (80's). Eventually Saturn got a true clean sheet design on its own.

For the record, Saturn's engine's waterpump is driven by a pulley, love it that you can change it in under an hour.




>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:34 PM
Here is the 1991 Saturn engine I was referring.





>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----


Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:18 PM
sorry, but when I saw that I was thinking Saturn...

I might not be a Saturn expert, but maybe you guys can dispell the inconsistencies with the story post, or the facts fro the time mentioned...

fact:
*The first example of the Quad4 that I have found in print is from the April 1986 Car Craft(pg27); the engine is near production ready, and only sports pre-production intake, and oil pan.
*The next article I have is found in the March 1987 Hot Rod, pictured is a complete production engine along with other design study variants; the article mostly focuses on the Olds Aerotech.
*The following article is from the April 1987 Hot Rod, and is almost entirely about the production motor, as well as production based running prototypes of;
    [*] supercharged/intercooled production variant
    [*] single turbocharged production variant
    [*] production variant running dual webber carbs
    [*] Batten Engineering single turbo variant
    [*] Fueling Engineering dual turbo variant

*Quad4 was released to public in limited run of Oldsmobile Calais coupes very late in the 1987 model year (presumably available late spring/early summer 1987).
*The Quad4, in it's first incarnation was a 150hp motor with what appears to be absolutely nothing being shared on this "prototype" motor less the crank pulley.
*By February 1988, the information about the proposed "High Output" 180hp version, as well as the turbocharged 250hp variant (a version which I do have pictures, and a short article on running around Detroit in an Olds 88)
*Approximately half way through the 1988 model year, Pontiac's Fiero was killed off; after a small handful of 1989 model year pre-production cars, as well as a single 1990 pre-production Fiero was already built.
*By late in the 1989 model year the "High Output" engine was released in a limited run of Grand Am SE's & Calais International Series coupes.

From all the information I have read, the "High Output" engine was slated to be the standard engine for 1990 model year Fiero's (this was the first full model year in which it was offered).

Now, with all this information that I provided, please piece together logic as to;
Why another version of the Quad4 (appearing to be a clean-slate redesign) would be commissioned, to make the same power as the regular engine, only to be axed presumably (based on Fiero timeline) during the 1988 calender year??

Also, since the material used for the intake manifold pictured is a composite design, which was not used (to the best of my knowledge) before 1996 - the better part of a decade after the Fiero was axed... it leads me to believe that this engine, was probably being designed after the Fiero was axed;

If this is in fact a prototype Saturn 1.9l, this would make more sense;
Saturn's only came out in 1991 - so it would stand to reason that if it was in development that it might have parts similar to what would come out later...

I am not posting here to reign on your parade, but rather since the Quad4 would go on to be re-engineered and retained the basic architecture through till it's demise in 2002, it just doesn't stand to reason that this engine might be some missing link in Oldsmobile's engine development history...


signatures are for loosers.
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:24 PM
I wanted to do a light edit... but cannot see an edit button... and well screw it
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:53 PM
unruhjonny wrote:

I wanted to do a light edit... but cannot see an edit button... and well screw it


you have to be premium to edit.



Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:11 AM
Looks like a Hemi.




Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:34 PM
I don't think its a "Quad 4 or Twincam" in any way shape or form.

It might be a DOHC with 4 valve per cylinder and a hemi but just by the looks, i don't think so.





Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:57 PM
nice post jonny. i agree.



If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:22 PM
unruhjonny wrote:

sorry, but when I saw that I was thinking Saturn...

I might not be a Saturn expert, but maybe you guys can dispell the inconsistencies with the story post, or the facts fro the time mentioned...

fact:
*The first example of the Quad4 that I have found in print is from the April 1986 Car Craft(pg27); the engine is near production ready, and only sports pre-production intake, and oil pan.
*The next article I have is found in the March 1987 Hot Rod, pictured is a complete production engine along with other design study variants; the article mostly focuses on the Olds Aerotech.
*The following article is from the April 1987 Hot Rod, and is almost entirely about the production motor, as well as production based running prototypes of;
    [*] supercharged/intercooled production variant
    [*] single turbocharged production variant
    [*] production variant running dual webber carbs
    [*] Batten Engineering single turbo variant
    [*] Fueling Engineering dual turbo variant

*Quad4 was released to public in limited run of Oldsmobile Calais coupes very late in the 1987 model year (presumably available late spring/early summer 1987).
*The Quad4, in it's first incarnation was a 150hp motor with what appears to be absolutely nothing being shared on this "prototype" motor less the crank pulley.
*By February 1988, the information about the proposed "High Output" 180hp version, as well as the turbocharged 250hp variant (a version which I do have pictures, and a short article on running around Detroit in an Olds 88)
*Approximately half way through the 1988 model year, Pontiac's Fiero was killed off; after a small handful of 1989 model year pre-production cars, as well as a single 1990 pre-production Fiero was already built.
*By late in the 1989 model year the "High Output" engine was released in a limited run of Grand Am SE's & Calais International Series coupes.

From all the information I have read, the "High Output" engine was slated to be the standard engine for 1990 model year Fiero's (this was the first full model year in which it was offered).

Now, with all this information that I provided, please piece together logic as to;
Why another version of the Quad4 (appearing to be a clean-slate redesign) would be commissioned, to make the same power as the regular engine, only to be axed presumably (based on Fiero timeline) during the 1988 calender year??

Also, since the material used for the intake manifold pictured is a composite design, which was not used (to the best of my knowledge) before 1996 - the better part of a decade after the Fiero was axed... it leads me to believe that this engine, was probably being designed after the Fiero was axed;

If this is in fact a prototype Saturn 1.9l, this would make more sense;
Saturn's only came out in 1991 - so it would stand to reason that if it was in development that it might have parts similar to what would come out later...

I am not posting here to reign on your parade, but rather since the Quad4 would go on to be re-engineered and retained the basic architecture through till it's demise in 2002, it just doesn't stand to reason that this engine might be some missing link in Oldsmobile's engine development history...


Hey this motor doesnt make sense to you, me, or anyone else. All I know is what I was told by the guy that built it. It could either be the badass engine that its suppose to be, or I could have been hosed and it might just be some random parts thrown together with a story for him to make some money. We will never know untill I get it running and in the car. Even then it will probably be controversial as to what it really is. Everyone will have their opinion. Now IF it is what its suppose to be, it is a quad 4. Not a saturn, not an LD9. It obviously is not a traditional quad4, which is why its called a protoype and has an experimental badge on it. But it was made as a quad 4 none the less. Obviously this motor had some sort of impact on motors that followed it. Whether it was made for the fiero, or was a quad variant meant to help launch saturn. Either way it was built as a quad, sat under a workbench as a quad, and I bought it as a quad.
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:43 PM
I want to see the bottem end in this sucker, If it made 300 hp,(not saying it did not) it would need some sort of built bottem end. So I dont know how crazy you are about pulling the pan off of it, but im pretty sure im not the only one curious to see this. Also I am curious to see the oil pump setup in this thing, I wonder if they put the ld9 style in it or 2.3 pump, makes me really curious.

Lets get some close up pics of this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:53 PM
Slowzee wrote:

I want to see the bottem end in this sucker, If it made 300 hp,(not saying it did not) it would need some sort of built bottem end. So I dont know how crazy you are about pulling the pan off of it, but im pretty sure im not the only one curious to see this. Also I am curious to see the oil pump setup in this thing, I wonder if they put the ld9 style in it or 2.3 pump, makes me really curious.

Lets get some close up pics of this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I was gonna get some today but it was just to cold out. Ive had the pan off to make sure everything was tight and ready to run. It is not a quad style pump at all. And the rods are pretty beeffy looking. Ill get the valve cover off (hard to do i know) and get some pics of the adjustable cam gears while im at it. The only thing i wont pull of is the head. Sorry but i aint going that deep into something like this.

Part of me really doubts its gonna make that number, for the simple fact it's got to be to good to be true. But looking at the extreme details that were taken in its design make me optimistic for sure.
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:32 PM
you definitely wont be making 300hp with that 'header'.. thats for sure.



If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing

Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:48 PM
z yaaaa wrote:

you definitely wont be making 300hp with that 'header'.. thats for sure.


What makes you say that?
Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:10 PM
I will trade you my quad 4 for your quad 4









Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:38 PM
Justin Stinepring wrote:

unruhjonny wrote:

sorry, but when I saw that I was thinking Saturn...

I might not be a Saturn expert, but maybe you guys can dispell the inconsistencies with the story post, or the facts fro the time mentioned...

fact:
*The first example of the Quad4 that I have found in print is from the April 1986 Car Craft(pg27); the engine is near production ready, and only sports pre-production intake, and oil pan.
*The next article I have is found in the March 1987 Hot Rod, pictured is a complete production engine along with other design study variants; the article mostly focuses on the Olds Aerotech.
*The following article is from the April 1987 Hot Rod, and is almost entirely about the production motor, as well as production based running prototypes of;
    [*] supercharged/intercooled production variant
    [*] single turbocharged production variant
    [*] production variant running dual webber carbs
    [*] Batten Engineering single turbo variant
    [*] Fueling Engineering dual turbo variant

*Quad4 was released to public in limited run of Oldsmobile Calais coupes very late in the 1987 model year (presumably available late spring/early summer 1987).
*The Quad4, in it's first incarnation was a 150hp motor with what appears to be absolutely nothing being shared on this "prototype" motor less the crank pulley.
*By February 1988, the information about the proposed "High Output" 180hp version, as well as the turbocharged 250hp variant (a version which I do have pictures, and a short article on running around Detroit in an Olds 88)
*Approximately half way through the 1988 model year, Pontiac's Fiero was killed off; after a small handful of 1989 model year pre-production cars, as well as a single 1990 pre-production Fiero was already built.
*By late in the 1989 model year the "High Output" engine was released in a limited run of Grand Am SE's & Calais International Series coupes.

From all the information I have read, the "High Output" engine was slated to be the standard engine for 1990 model year Fiero's (this was the first full model year in which it was offered).

Now, with all this information that I provided, please piece together logic as to;
Why another version of the Quad4 (appearing to be a clean-slate redesign) would be commissioned, to make the same power as the regular engine, only to be axed presumably (based on Fiero timeline) during the 1988 calender year??

Also, since the material used for the intake manifold pictured is a composite design, which was not used (to the best of my knowledge) before 1996 - the better part of a decade after the Fiero was axed... it leads me to believe that this engine, was probably being designed after the Fiero was axed;

If this is in fact a prototype Saturn 1.9l, this would make more sense;
Saturn's only came out in 1991 - so it would stand to reason that if it was in development that it might have parts similar to what would come out later...

I am not posting here to reign on your parade, but rather since the Quad4 would go on to be re-engineered and retained the basic architecture through till it's demise in 2002, it just doesn't stand to reason that this engine might be some missing link in Oldsmobile's engine development history...


Hey this motor doesnt make sense to you, me, or anyone else. All I know is what I was told by the guy that built it. It could either be the badass engine that its suppose to be, or I could have been hosed and it might just be some random parts thrown together with a story for him to make some money. We will never know untill I get it running and in the car. Even then it will probably be controversial as to what it really is. Everyone will have their opinion. Now IF it is what its suppose to be, it is a quad 4. Not a saturn, not an LD9. It obviously is not a traditional quad4, which is why its called a protoype and has an experimental badge on it. But it was made as a quad 4 none the less. Obviously this motor had some sort of impact on motors that followed it. Whether it was made for the fiero, or was a quad variant meant to help launch saturn. Either way it was built as a quad, sat under a workbench as a quad, and I bought it as a quad.

Which is why my post made the most sense, beside there were articles in the 80s about this.
This engine's basic architecture comes from a Quad-4, you can tell. But it looks like it was evolution/offspring destined for Saturn (the question is what is the displacement?), which is why you can see the similarities with the Saturn engine pics I posted. But in the end... and I repeat again, GM and Saturn scraped this engine and decided to do a clean sheet design instead.
I really don't think the engineer was blowing smoke up your ass either, it could've been for the Fiero which was also on a Spaceframe chassis (good test bed), just like Saturn's. Or maybe that "Fiero" was possibly the next Saturn.
Either way I would like to hear how this thing sounds. And getting parts will be an adventure.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Re: Found a prototype quad4
Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:57 PM
K first off I have seen this motor in person and got to measure some things. Header could easily support 300hp, ya know why... its called R & D. The reason that so many "enthusiasts" over build things is because they cant test and calculate things like an experienced and financially supported team/ corporation. Its not always about bigger, velocity plays a part also.

Heres another interesting fact: Cam lift on this motor is only .375", is that too tiny for 300 horses? RPM, CR, and cam phasing will affect this greatly. Remember the production w41s made almost 200hp in stock, emissions passing trim on a considerably lower compression ratio.

While the internal specs on the motor are just what we were told and we are taking this guys word for it. If you doubt the numbers then I wish you could see his shop and the photo albums full of GM factory proto cars that this guy built and is sitting in and standing next to.







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