Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM - Page 2 - Photos & Media Forum

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Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Monday, April 09, 2012 5:20 PM
I'm with Jason that at a 14:7 ratio you still have O2 in the mixture.



FU Tuning




Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Monday, April 09, 2012 5:50 PM
Here's a good article of interest on the subject.


Injector Dynamics - Alcohol Article


Again, I'll stick to 110 + Water injection, thanks











Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 9:57 AM
lol, @!#$in jbo.

someone finally comes along and does an e85 build and puts out 400whp with 2.5" exhaust piping and the jbo has to stand back and say "omg that's not safe, this isn't correct, that isn't correct!".

who the @!#$ cares if it's "correct"? it's this guys car let him do what he wants to do, i don't remember seeing anyone else build a j for e85, and there were alot of people that didn't even think it was possible. now here it is and we stand back and scoff?

@!#$in losers. props to this guy for doing something different, which apparently is not well excepted in the j world.



Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:30 AM
Garys car was built for E85 and runs perfectly fine on a standalone setup. He made great #'s too.

It's not a matter of whats possible, it's simply a matter of whats safe. Good tuners on this site are saying "yes it runs but I know I wouldn't do it"... nobody said that what the owner has accomplished doesn't mean much.

I know I wouldn't do it, but I'm not here to argue that point with anybody.

Tell your boy to get his breathing up to snuff and re-dyno on a non-heartbreaker! I'm curious to see what he pulls out of it on that fuel.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:05 AM
blucavvy wrote:lol, @!#$in jbo.

someone finally comes along and does an e85 build and puts out 400whp with 2.5" exhaust piping and the jbo has to stand back and say "omg that's not safe, this isn't correct, that isn't correct!".

who the @!#$ cares if it's "correct"? it's this guys car let him do what he wants to do, i don't remember seeing anyone else build a j for e85, and there were alot of people that didn't even think it was possible. now here it is and we stand back and scoff?

@!#$in losers. props to this guy for doing something different, which apparently is not well excepted in the j world
.

Actually, that has nothing to do with it... This car is still not "built for e85"..... The fact of the matter is, we do NOT have access to the proper tables to make this 100% safe. With the HPT access to the Jbody PCM, there is no Stoich control, along with missing fuel and spark modifiers. There are other factors involved as well, but I'm tired of sounding like a broken record and repeating them. Can e85 be ran in a Jbody? YES .. Would I do it knowing that the proper tables/failsafes are not in place, and there could be a potential meltdown? HELL NO! If people want to try this, GO FOR IT, just don't come back crying when you have a meltdown....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:39 AM
Im curious...there has got to be a way for us to all contact the HPTUNERS owner and tell him we need these missing tables? Has this been done before?

We are basically getting half the product.


GMR has got nothing on this
Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:57 AM
We have tried. They don't care and have flat out said there will be no more development for the JBODY PCM.

This is still far better than the nothing we had in 2006 to tune with, lol.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 12:20 PM
SweetnessGT wrote:We have tried. They don't care and have flat out said there will be no more development for the JBODY PCM.

This is still far better than the nothing we had in 2006 to tune with, lol.

-Chris-
QFT!



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:31 PM
SweetnessGT wrote:We have tried. They don't care and have flat out said there will be no more development for the JBODY PCM.

This is still far better than the nothing we had in 2006 to tune with, lol.

-Chris-


X2



FU Tuning



Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:09 PM
Even if we are willing to pay extra to get the missing tables?

I understand tuning has been done without them but thats because the tuner is familiar with the Jbody PCM correct?

Why dont we promote more stand alone systems here then if Hptuners is not willing to help us? Heck i would hate to have a 500+hp cavi but could only be tuned to 350 or 400hp due to the limits of hptuners...




GMR has got nothing on this
Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 2:36 PM
DOHC_tuner wrote:Even if we are willing to pay extra to get the missing tables?

I understand tuning has been done without them but thats because the tuner is familiar with the Jbody PCM correct?

Why dont we promote more stand alone systems here then if Hptuners is not willing to help us? Heck i would hate to have a 500+hp cavi but could only be tuned to 350 or 400hp due to the limits of hptuners...

Your pcokets aren't deep enough.. Its a dead platform that we are honestly lucky to have support we do have... And you can have a 500whp+ Jbody... I have done a few! As for Standalones, most people here are a bunch of cheap asses.... Why would they buy a PCM that is more than what 90% of the cars on this site are valued at?





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq


Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:23 PM
QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:
DOHC_tuner wrote:Even if we are willing to pay extra to get the missing tables?

I understand tuning has been done without them but thats because the tuner is familiar with the Jbody PCM correct?

Why dont we promote more stand alone systems here then if Hptuners is not willing to help us? Heck i would hate to have a 500+hp cavi but could only be tuned to 350 or 400hp due to the limits of hptuners...

Your pcokets aren't deep enough.. Its a dead platform that we are honestly lucky to have support we do have... And you can have a 500whp+ Jbody... I have done a few! As for Standalones, most people here are a bunch of cheap asses.... Why would they buy a PCM that is more than what 90% of the cars on this site are valued at?


Understood, now please respond to my messages about getting my car tuned! There is a local tuner here in SA...new to HPTUNERS, but he has yet to tune a jbody.


GMR has got nothing on this
Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 4:13 PM
I thought I replied back to everybody.... Resubmit



P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:49 PM
gmanz24 (The Bash Whore) wrote:
TheSundownFire wrote:
gmanz24 (The Bash Whore) wrote:If I need a Works Cited page to source some information and equations I can do MLA or APA maybe even IEEE if necessary (;
jk but for real. Do some Math and Chemistry and understand how the sensors of vehicles work with their computer and you will realize this works.


Ethanol and Gasoline have different chemical formulas so when they burn they break apart differently. So the amounts of oxygen in the exhaust could be different. Idk the comps of of the top of my head but its something to consider.



It has been considered when you balance stoichiometric equations. Stoich for one fuel means that there is no o2 found in the burnt products, which also means that with another fuel there is 0 o2 in the burnt product at stoich, so regardless of how they break apart, stoich is stoich. this is the reason you need to flow 1/3 more fuel with e85, that is accounting for the difference in the need for more reactant to create the same stoich burn.

If anyone wants to bring an intelligent argument to the table please do. till now everyone has just been a neigh sayer and has yet to back up reasoning as to why this will not work. If you want to argue that it is unsafe to boost and run e85 than you are also saying that it is unsafe to boost and run gasoline on our computers. Boosting in general on our computers doesnt allow proper fueling and tuning, but till someone validates an argument as to why e85 isnt as safe as gasoline, step down. Our computer has no knowledge as to what fuel is being put through the motor. either does the o2 sensor.
If you were to create a test cell where you burned 5 different types of fuel, and measured that cell with an o2 sensor, at the same mass flow you would see different voltages returned by the sensor. but if you flowed proper amounts of fuel to reach stoich in the cell, the o2 sensor would return the same voltage for each fuel.


Back to fuel the sh*t storm again but I just wanted to say that I completely agree with what has been said here. In a perfect combustion reaction there is no leftover oxygen (thats stoich people). The only remnants are water and carbon dioxide. Any basic high school chemistry class teaches you this. This is a stoichiometric equation for everyone out there. By convention you have to balance the equation so that you have equal numbers of each molecule on each side of the equation. I wish I could do subscripts in here. For standard gasoline its something like C8H18 + O2 = H2O + CO2. For E85 its something like C2H6O + C8H18 + O2 = H2O + CO2. I havent actually balanced the equations because Im about to head to bed but Id expect to see what Gary has already said about the products being the same because well they are. When running E85 you would physically be pushing more fuel into the cylinders to see the same PPM of water and CO2 leaving the cylinder. We all just need to remember that all that sensors are are gauges and they can be fooled tricked and screwed with just like any other gauge.

Thats all I have to say. Just trying to bring something productive to the table from an engineering perspective because apparently all of the engineers we're laughing in here according to some ignorant peeps.



Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Monday, March 11, 2013 12:33 AM
There have been no engineers laughing, he just felt dumb for being ignorant and wanted some "authority" lol. This car has not melted down or had any issues due to e85, still running strong and I am installing an ld9 harness to run speed density tuning now. Time for more boost last synonym session netted 414whp on this exact dyno on 21psi.









Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Monday, March 11, 2013 7:16 PM
This really does make me curious. Just dont like the fact of vary'ing e85 levels (summer blend) etc




Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:51 AM
gmanz24 (The Bash Whore) wrote:There have been no engineers laughing, he just felt dumb for being ignorant and wanted some "authority" lol. This car has not melted down or had any issues due to e85, still running strong and I am installing an ld9 harness to run speed density tuning now. Time for more boost last synonym session netted 414whp on this exact dyno on 21psi.


Quoting myself because I can't edit. It was supposed to say last tuning* session not synonym.


The issue with summer/winter blend only comes into play when beating on the car and you really shouldn't be beating on the car during the winter anyway. Also if your car is tuned to summer blend and you drive year round then you will notice the car run slightly richer when on winter blend e85. I drove this car yesterday, it's tuned for summer blend and we just put some current e85 in it and it still runs normal. Now I don't plan on going out and racing it anytime soon but the car still runs and drives as it should.






Re: Turbo Ecotec E85 Stock PCM
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:40 AM
gmanz24 (The Bash Whore) wrote:
gmanz24 (The Bash Whore) wrote:There have been no engineers laughing, he just felt dumb for being ignorant and wanted some "authority" lol. This car has not melted down or had any issues due to e85, still running strong and I am installing an ld9 harness to run speed density tuning now. Time for more boost last synonym session netted 414whp on this exact dyno on 21psi.


Quoting myself because I can't edit. It was supposed to say last tuning* session not synonym.


The issue with summer/winter blend only comes into play when beating on the car and you really shouldn't be beating on the car during the winter anyway. Also if your car is tuned to summer blend and you drive year round then you will notice the car run slightly richer when on winter blend e85. I drove this car yesterday, it's tuned for summer blend and we just put some current e85 in it and it still runs normal. Now I don't plan on going out and racing it anytime soon but the car still runs and drives as it should.


Also, most tuners Ive dealt with will tune you a little conservative for a street car. Theres enough variation in regular pump gas that you dont want it tuned on the ragged edge. You lose a few hp but gain reliability. A good trade-off IMO.



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