I never used the springs bolts.

Just straight normal bolts. Never a issue.



FU Tuning

I guess they allow for slight flexibility though...because most cars run flex pipes or spring bolts. or so that's what I thought they were for. Ill try to tighten it more tomorrow, maybe they're just loose from moving around after bolting the header on. I know ive still got a leak though from the 2nd upper port (cylinder 2). I will have to completely remove the header and grind down the weld so the fastener will sit flush. I just don't know why it wasn't a problem on my other engine, they're identical.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

^^Grind the bolt not the header.

Unless im not understanding you correctly.

I already ground down the 'wing' on the fastener. The nut itself is still hitting the welds.

Heres a crude pic I made in a bout 20 seconds since im in a hurry, watching 'the number 23' with Jim Carrey. Never saw it, but its on TV and figured eh wtf. lol




04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

blu04DD wrote:I just don't know why it wasn't a problem on my other engine, they're identical.

Probably because the primaries on the lsj header are bigger than the l61's.



"In Oldskool we trust"

Yah on the LSJ header you get new bolts for certain spots.

That being said id try and find a different fastener vs grinding the header. Thats just going to create a weak spot.

you could get a couple of washers and grind a flat spot to clear the weld, then just put the nut on top.

its the same header. Ive always had the larger LSJ pace setter header since day one. the only difference is maybe the size of the exhaust ports on the head. but the bolt locations should be the same for mounting the header.
that's the problem is I have to remove the entire header and its a pita. It might drop through the bottom though. if not, ill remove the painted valve cover because I don't want to scratch it all up.

I just don't see how any fastener is going to work properly if the weld is directly underneath the bolt. The header can only sit in that spot using that location. It will still require grinding in order to allow a fastener to seat flush when fully tightened.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

This is the bolts that come with the header normally.

They have the proper thread size but the bolt head is much smaller.

Come to think of it if you cant find those bolts maybe just grab some allen head bolts. They have a very very small footprint.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:58 PM

Attachments

Header bolts.JPG (1657k)

yeah that's a good point. just taking the bolts out and using some same length hex head bolts with a smaller head.
I also need to replace the bolts for the dp to the header. the fasteners are getting too difficult to take off and install, they should be a lot easier. Ill clean the bolt threads but need at least new nuts. Or possibly chase those too just to clean em up a little.
I need to verify whether or not I should have a gasket between the dp and the header though. I don't recall one coming off. Its got the cupped flange on there and the first pic shows a little orange on a beveled edge but its not appearing to seal very well. Im pretty sure I had it as tight as I could get it too.












04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

and I never got hardware from TTR/Pace Setter. Only the 2 for the dp. The instructions said to use my original ones I believe. Otherwise Id be using them. The ones im trying to use are the same ones that I had on my L61.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Maybe allen head bolts would work? I don't believe there is a gasket at that connection. Maybe someone used rtv?



"In Oldskool we trust"

There is no gasket at that connection. Its simply a ball socket.

Its odd you didnt get anything. I bought my header last year from TTR and it had them with the downpipe bolts.

its possible the shop I had install the header when they did my full exhaust just used my stock parts and tossed or kept my supplied bolts. but that's how it was when removed. I did notice there seems to be slight slack in the hole for each bolt. When I tightened the header up I think I was holding it up as I wrenched down some of them. if I let it sag (let gravity do its job) the bolts will be further up from the welds as they're tightened down. But I like the idea of getting a hold of those bolts better..then I don't need to worry about it. Ill look online for some replacement hardware, maybe I can get them shipped really quick.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

heres a pic of what came out of the box when I received my pace setter header. This was just before install March, 2012.
theres a metal gasket between the dp and header, no hardware for the manifold.





04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

See in the bag those black blurry parts in the bag. I think there is 3 of them. Those are the bolts. You had them.

those are the spring bolts for the dp. And even if you go to pace setter's site, or TTR, or anywhere you can get them, it says to use the factory manifold hardware. I can go buy the three bolts to replace the top bolts that wont go on flush instead of grinding down the header welds. I just need to get the thread pitch and length to use. But I still need that metal gasket for the header to dp because I don't have it and cant find it. Im not sure how I removed it without knowing where I put it.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

http://pacesetterexhaust.com/05-06-chevy-cobalt-ss-04-06-saturn-ion-redline-coated-headers.aspx

"utilizes stock header bolts"


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Ive outlined in red the new bolts.

The green is the header dp bolts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, October 13, 2013 1:26 PM

blu04DD wrote:those are the spring bolts for the dp. And even if you go to pace setter's site, or TTR, or anywhere you can get them, it says to use the factory manifold hardware. I can go buy the three bolts to replace the top bolts that wont go on flush instead of grinding down the header welds. I just need to get the thread pitch and length to use. But I still need that metal gasket for the header to dp because I don't have it and cant find it. Im not sure how I removed it without knowing where I put it.

There is no gasket on the ball socket. The ball socket seals well enough on its own.

then why would they supply that metal gasket for the flange/ball socket? I just know I cant find mine IF I had one. But those bolts, if they were for the header, the shop that did the install must have left them out and just used my original hardware because that's what I took off. I cant imagine pace setter supplying 3 because they know the welds are going to interfere. Their instructions state to utilize the stock header bolts. All I need to do is figure out which ones they are and get some. But their website and any site that sells that header does not supply those bolts individually as replacement parts or mention that they come with the header


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

The thing that gets me is if this is a standard thing and the welds do in fact interfere on this particular application, they should supply 5 for the entire top row automatically. But its not a big deal its just odd that my ball socket fully tightened down was leaking...so that part is still confusing to me as it was snug and tight. Ill just install it all again and hope its going to fit together again like before this time around.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.

Pretty sure that what looks to be a gasket was a flange for the dp for the other end of the dp extension.

Ive had 4 Pacesetter headers over the years. There is no gasket for the ball socket. It sometimes seals. Sometimes it doesn't. Some people cut it off and weld a v-band on there and use a flex pipe instead.

If you look at ZZP's mid length header you'll see that its just a Pacesetter header with the ball socket cut off and a v-band welded on there and a new dp.

I believe the replacement bolts are just needed on those top few holes. I could actually count but I believe its just the first three from cyl 1 over. The others dont have an issue.

I think allen cap head bolts would fit just fine. Take a nut to Home Depot or any other fastener shop and go from there.

I think it should be about 1.5" I cant recall the stud size. Either m6 or 8

Lsj is m8 I believe. But yeah go to a hardware store with one oof the bolts and snag some allen head bolts.



"In Oldskool we trust"

yeah I will hopefully get to that tomorrow. I measured a mark I made on the L61 motor from the CKP hole while the engine was at TDC, to the edge of the next timing mark. It was exactly 11/16ths. So I'll set the motor at TDC and then make sure my trigger wheel is aligned to mirror that measurement. Then I should be just about spot on as far as timing goes.

Otherwise, Im hoping I can fix the exhaust leak with a few new bolts on cylinders 1,2,3 as Philly said and then hoping the ball socket just seats properly this time. Its such a stupid thing to be stopping me now with how much I've done. Then I can get my tuner to come over and we can start doing the fun stuff. As of when I last tried starting it up, it'll idle fairly smooth even with the exhaust leak but if I even touched the throttle it would seem like it was dying. So the timing and the exhaust issues should resolve that I hope. I figure the LSJ should run fairly decent on the last tune we did since nothings changed but the stroke length.


04 Cav. 2dr. 5spd. My DD. 'Nuff said.