Since when is modding ANY 4 cylinder the easy way out.
haha, well, i know what you mean about not easy to get power out of the cavalier like a honda...thats actually why i'm thinking about making the stupid decision of keeping my 2200 ohv in my 2000 cavi, and rebuild the crap out of it(well, not really...10:1 comp., and a 8lb boost turbo setup)
Darkstars wrote:***waits for someone to spew crap about the GM built drag cars being faster***
im wating for Rodimus to come back and spew crap
Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!
................
IN all FAIRNESS, IS not the GM ECO's walking all over the Honda's in there drag class's?
A EJ\EG with a K swap
HOT
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Darkstars wrote:Since when is modding ANY 4 cylinder the easy way out.
Since GM decided to hold your hand every step of the way to 1000hp.
I have no signiture
Darkstars wrote:***waits for someone to spew crap about the GM built drag cars being faster***
but hondas in that same class don't compare, so.. I'm not sure what you're proving here?
read the rule book sometime for the outlaw FWD classes, and see how many additional rules ecotec powered cars have to follow in order to keep things 'fair'.
besides, in that class, toyota is starting to take up the gap with that WORLD racing tC.. even though it took them 10 years to get the stupid thing to make it down the track in one piece.
But honda engines have a lot of technology built into them, thus making them easier to modify. Look up information about the B-series engine, and the K-series, and you'll see why people use them to race with.
V-tec isn't worth a damn either.. it just allows you to run more aggressive cam profiles while keeping the car well-behaved. There's plenty of other, more important factors that make a honda engine more advanced than a majority of the competition.
The unfortunate side effect of having a proven platform is everyone who owns one 'thinks' its a race car.
Option D wrote:I noticed many J owners trash Hondas, but my question is how many of you have run agianst them??
I have. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I win. I generally try to respect communities that have fast cars because it shows that their people know what they're doing.. but you never can tell how they will react to your car. Here's two examples;
I specifically remember a white integra GSR I raced at atco. I kept missing third gear and still handing over his ass up to the beams. 14.2-14.4 passes, which at the time for me were not very good.. my personal best at the time was a 14 flat. I remember him trying to get a look under the hood for solenoids, and watching me in the trunk as I adjusted my suspension dampening looking for a bottle. His friends kept shooting dirty looks over to me and my group.. he kept switching places with people to run me every pass too. It got bothersome. Competition is healthy, but he seemed almost pissed off I was faster than him.
A lot of hondas are junk, but some of them are damn fast with little work into them. You never can tell.
Another time I went to atco I was meeting up with a friend to race. He got into an accident on the way there, so I ended up at the track alone. I figured I'd run anyway while I was there. Started talkin to a few honda guys, one had an EG hatch (my favorite body style), a brand new Civic Si, and the other had an RSX type-s. We were all bull@!#$ting and they were amazed at what I'd done with the skwirl. The guy with the Si had never raced before so I was giving him some tips for launching. By the end of the night, the type-s and I ran a race for fun and it was a very close race. he beat me to the line, but I had .2 quicker e/t.
Skilz10179 wrote:
Pretty pointless thread. But for the sake of staying on a pointless topic, it has always bothered me that there are so many Honda haters on here with stupid user names like "HondaKillaCav" when their car isn't even fast....
I too, hate that. Its the bane of our community too.. one particular sn sticks out the most in my mind.
the fact of the matter is, if you can cut through the fat of their black sheep, and get down to the real knowledge base the honda community really has a lot to offer. They started the FWD/ 4 cylinder racing thing back in the early 90s, and everyone else is basically copying what they started. But a lot of 4 cylinder principals they've learned can apply to our engines too.
I'm actually a member on honda-tech and when I went there asking about tuning problems people had with alpha-n setups and ITBs, and why krome let them use a blended system they didn't give me much crap for being a j-body, and pretty much explained it all.
DaFlyinSkwir(LS61) /PJ/ OEM+ wrote:Darkstars wrote:***waits for someone to spew crap about the GM built drag cars being faster***
but hondas in that same class don't compare, so.. I'm not sure what you're proving here?
my point is usually peoples answer to Honda is GM built a FWD Eco drag car that hit 7's... like a tube chassis racecar with a GM built Eco somehow means every cav is a racecar far superior to Honda.
You broke it down enough for me to understand.
Um....................
GM did do the 4 cyl racing thing in the 90's to.....
*W41*
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
yea where was the 195hp NA stock honda in 1991? The best engine they had was like 120HP
GM has been pwning for a long time in the 4 cylinder world, its just alot worse for everyone else now that the ecotec is out.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Rodimus Prime wrote:yea where was the 195hp NA stock honda in 1991? The best engine they had was like 120HP
GM has been pwning for a long time in the 4 cylinder world, its just alot worse for everyone else now that the ecotec is out.
In 1991 the highest hp Honda 4 cyl was a B16A, it made 160bhp, in a car that weighed 2100 lbs. Not to knock the W41 but it wasn't making 100 hp per liter like the B16 of the same year was and it was in a much heavier car that wasn't as fast. I love GM and i love Honda, i win!
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
pathetic
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Skilz10179 wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:yea where was the 195hp NA stock honda in 1991? The best engine they had was like 120HP
GM has been pwning for a long time in the 4 cylinder world, its just alot worse for everyone else now that the ecotec is out.
In 1991 the highest hp Honda 4 cyl was a B16A, it made 160bhp, in a car that weighed 2100 lbs. Not to knock the W41 but it wasn't making 100 hp per liter like the B16 of the same year was and it was in a much heavier car that wasn't as fast. I love GM and i love Honda, i win!
x2 i agree both are awesome companies who pioneered the industry. the w41 was a sexy engine but so is the b-series engines. i know alot of honda guys and chevy guys who are running insane numbers and i think we can learn from each other even though we both have different platforms.
Rodimus Prime wrote:pathetic
So is a 140hp 2.2L 15 years later. I swear, car fanboys are about as intelligent and mature as 10 year-olds fighting about video-game consoles.
The bottom line here is all 4 cycle engines operate in the same fundamental ways. Engineers have known for decades how to build a high rpm/horsepower engines. Electronics have played a great part in helping this in that they have allowed for reductions in reciprocating weight, better fuel delivery, less pumping losses, etc., etc....and in the case of many Honda engines: VTEC. You probably hate hearing it, but the truth is, VTEC works wonders for a street engine, and I would personally love to have it. Anyone who wouldn't is either retarded or just not well enough informed. Liter for liter, it is unlikely that you will outpower a Honda on the street N/A with the same amount invested in it. An important note though: in race trim, Hondas will remove their VTEC, for obvious reasons.
Another important characteristic that seems to get overlooked by people who hate Hondas, is the head flow. The only stock 4 cylinder GM head to come even close to the flow characteristics of a B16 or GSR head is the 086 Quad 4 head, but that is only on the intake side. The Honda heads dominate it in flow on the exhaust side. The 086 flow also clips around .450" lift, which is the stock lift of a 99' GSR intake cam. In fact, the only GM 4 cylinder head I have seen to come close to the Honda on the exhaust side is the GM ECOTEC Race Cylinder head.
Anyways, I will never understand why people get such a boner for a specific hunk of metal just because their favorite manufacturer put it together. One of lifes dumbest mysteries I guess.
I have no signiture
currently i have a honda, and a chevy, and a hyundai for that matter.... i get along with everybody, and nobody gets along with me even though i please the honda, chevy, tuner, and hyundai crowd....
everybody trash talks everybody. who gives a flying @!#$ anymore.
im probably looking into an airplane for my next car, because nobody talks @!#$ about airplanes. lol
Skilz10179 wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:yea where was the 195hp NA stock honda in 1991? The best engine they had was like 120HP
GM has been pwning for a long time in the 4 cylinder world, its just alot worse for everyone else now that the ecotec is out.
In 1991 the highest hp Honda 4 cyl was a B16A, it made 160bhp, in a car that weighed 2100 lbs. Not to knock the W41 but it wasn't making 100 hp per liter like the B16 of the same year was and it was in a much heavier car that wasn't as fast. I love GM and i love Honda, i win!
Um..... IF that's how we measure power...
Honda Wins!
My 450 CC Honda ATV makes 39.9 HP!
That's 11.2 HP per Cubic Centimeter!
STOCK
LOL
Best of all, it has a Timing Chain!
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
Most hondas are basically torque-lessssssssss!!
Taetsch Z-24 wrote:Skilz10179 wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:yea where was the 195hp NA stock honda in 1991? The best engine they had was like 120HP
GM has been pwning for a long time in the 4 cylinder world, its just alot worse for everyone else now that the ecotec is out.
In 1991 the highest hp Honda 4 cyl was a B16A, it made 160bhp, in a car that weighed 2100 lbs. Not to knock the W41 but it wasn't making 100 hp per liter like the B16 of the same year was and it was in a much heavier car that wasn't as fast. I love GM and i love Honda, i win!
Um..... IF that's how we measure power...
Honda Wins!
My 450 CC Honda ATV makes 39.9 HP!
That's 11.2 HP per Cubic Centimeter!
STOCK
LOL
Best of all, it has a Timing Chain!
Chris
Math fails you Chris. That's 11.2 cubic centimeters per horsepower, or 88.7 hp per liter.
I have no signiture
Rodimus Prime wrote:pathetic
Best post ever!
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
wasn't it rodney king that said :can't we all just get along??" I have a friend that drives an 04 civic and I get info out the wazoo from him about my cavy.
You wanna ride??
Quote:
Math fails you Chris. That's 11.2 cubic centimeters per horsepower, or 88.7 hp per liter.
I did no math to find out how much power my ATV would have in a bottle of Soda. But.....
Hence why i said Timing Chain.
and its a single cylinder... give it a break!
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
