Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car - Racing Forum

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Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Friday, January 22, 2010 1:54 PM
Ok probably won't be doing anything until March. Here are my current cars that I have to build as racecars. We already have a raceready DOhc 5 speed Saturn that my dad races. Also have a 98 2200 5 spd Cavalier. 96 Dohc 4 spd auto Saturn. 96 Dodge Neon sohc 5 spd. I really want to build the Saturn cause the 5 spd is one of the fastest cars there. The only competition was another Saturn and a auto Z24 2.4. Now the Saturn smokes a bit as most do and that scares my Dad cause his doesn't. This is my top choice. Were probably building the 2200 as a backup car my Dad really wants to run for track points champion this year he got 2nd last year. No my last option is the Neon, I have most of the parts to build this need a new engine. But I allready have a good head rollcage and a bunch of other parts. So the Neon will be my cheapest option but hopefully I can sell it.

So basically was just wondering what the thoughts were on the Auto Saturn Dohc vs the 2200 Cavy 5 spd. Also what easy stuff can be done to the 2200. I dont want to touch the internals. And it's supposed to look stock. I plan on doing the rear hub swap. I have previous experience with a 92 circle track 2.2 auto that I raced for a year, and a 95 2.2. auto both were 3 spds. The 95 was ok the 92 slow. I think the Saturn would be fast if the transmission holds up. Commments suggestions welcome. I would love to find a cheap 95 2.3 5spd and swap to the older 2.3. We run a small 3/8 high banked dirt track

Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:37 AM
I wouldnt even bother racing the saturn with a auto. Not only are they slow, they wont last. Just swap it for a 5 speed and get a fidanza for it. The smoking will either get better or get worse....lol. Personally...if you guys arent used to saturns and there quirks its not worth it. Not only are the bodies and suspensions fragile, there hard to setup with the independent rear suspension and integral front swaybar. I drive a 95 sl2 on the track that i swapped from a auto.

I enduro race cavaliers on the track too with a previous 94 2.2 5 speed and a 95 2.2 auto. Definitely not the fastest things on the track but ive won with them due to them being pretty reliable. Im sure with some work one could be made fast...hell just look at some of the racers on here.

Neons are fast at our tracks but they are dohc and pretty well built. You can buy all kinds of parts for them too to make them faster.


1994 Cavalier 2.2 5 Speed - Scrapped.
1994 Cavalier Z24 3.1 Auto - Enduro
1995 Cavalier 2.2 Auto - Figure 8
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:44 PM
the 98 caviler is your best bet as i have built quite afew of these cars and have been pretty lucky with them their easy to setup and parts are easy to get. the main thing to remember is to relocate the ecm from right frt to inside the car . don t know anything about the neons or the saturns but have seen them do well as well the best advise i could give you is the best built cars will always come out on top and the man who works on his car will be up frt and you cant win a race in the pits race smart and be smarter than your competitors.
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:56 PM
Not to change the subject but Dennis, How did you go about relocating the ECM?

Kenny "Poppop" Brown

Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:36 PM
on the car that we built that was fi we took the harness that went under the radiator and stuck it back thorugh the wiper cowl and mounted the ecm in the cab
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:43 PM
simply by re routing the wiring cut a hole in cowl and run wires thru you will also have to reroute the abs wires but everything will hook back up without cutting any wires youll have to route the harness all the way around the motor this will take about an hour to do then you will have a safe ecm.
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Monday, February 08, 2010 7:15 AM
We cut off the abs harness on the 95 and rerouted the harness and mounted the ecm in the wiper cowl and plastic bagged it so it wouldnt get hit or soaked.


1994 Cavalier 2.2 5 Speed - Scrapped.
1994 Cavalier Z24 3.1 Auto - Enduro
1995 Cavalier 2.2 Auto - Figure 8
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Monday, February 08, 2010 10:00 PM
Oh yea forgot about needing to move the computer. Ok another idea is were now allowed to run a cold air intake. My idea is to make my own and run it up by the headlight somewhere. I would need a shield for it of some sort. I think the wheel well would see some water and definitely alot of mud so thats out of the question. And no we cant cut a hole in the hood I already asked.
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:37 AM
Thank's all for sharing. I already had to move the ECM to repair the front end. How it survived is a miracle but it did. I was thinking of moving it to where the battery had been before I put it inside but it will be safer inside with me and I can mount it on the firewall after I remove most of the heater. I'm going to try to keep the core for extra engine cooling and also for the winter races. I don't know how much good it can do without a windshield but it's worth a try. Tghe winter races are on a paved but not plowed track.

Kenny "Poppop" Brown

Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:47 PM
I wish they would try some winter racing around here. Im assuming you guys run studded snow tires?
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:21 PM
We had a Hangover 100 in January. Pretty cool too. Frozen 4/10ths mile dirt oval.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6jG_rmLmSo

We were allowed studded tires for this one.......however, they outlawed them soon after i showed up. The video shows why.



1994 Cavalier 2.2 5 Speed - Scrapped.
1994 Cavalier Z24 3.1 Auto - Enduro
1995 Cavalier 2.2 Auto - Figure 8

Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Saturday, February 13, 2010 4:24 PM
I dont see why everyone wasn't running them if they were legal? Looks like alot of fun
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:52 AM
The eventual winner had brand new studded snows on his car, he runs a used car lot and could afford to beat up a set and sell them as used. That allows everyone can can afford to do that to do it. It makes everyone equal if they all have to run on a studless tire.

However, the rules said that any studded tire could be run in the january race. We had a set of municipal use recaps that were studded with some extreme 3/8" studs, entirely legal. Hence the reason i could fly around everybody. When i came up and lapped the leader the 5th time, i decided to give him a little push down the front straight. Once it became obvious that i had good studded tires they decided to outlaw them for the next race.


1994 Cavalier 2.2 5 Speed - Scrapped.
1994 Cavalier Z24 3.1 Auto - Enduro
1995 Cavalier 2.2 Auto - Figure 8
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Monday, February 15, 2010 7:14 PM
5 spd swap the turd, and the smokes normal on them hell its not biggy unless you're going through more than a quart every 300 miles. and its got the advantage of a stiffer and safer stock chassis than the cav, not to mention an independent if not strangely designed rear suspension. plastic's awesome I wish mine was a 5 spd and didnt blow a head gasket (I guess thats what I get for beating the piss out of a car with 150k on it for 4 years, if it'll take the abuse I gave it, it'll take any racing you can throw at it). Oh and on the turd, weld the diff pin regardless of the tranny you're running.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:58 PM
Well I found a guy that wants to trade a sc1 5spd with a bad engine for my Neon. So hopefully we'll do that and swap the DOHC engine into that. Does anyone know the gear ratios on the 2.2 1995+ 5 speeds? I found a bunch of other info about the cavys and Saturn gear ratios but can't find the 2.2 stuff?? The Saturn also has a 4.06 gear ratio and atleast 200 # advantage on the cavy. Now if I could find a 95 Z cheap. Oh I also made a post about gear ratios that hopefully a mod can clean up and we can sticky it cause it's useful info. Or maybe we can get a general Sticky on OVAL racing?? I would be willing to do the work if it's needed
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:00 PM
the sc1 has a different economy orientated gear set compared to the dohc tranny.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:15 PM
Yea I figured I could run small tires and 2nd gear works out to a 750ish something gear and the 99 dohc is like a high 790ish. If it dosen't work I can always swap it out later. My dad ran a 96 Sl2 last year with the 99 tranny and was geared pretty good with average 15's and 2nd gear. We run a small 3/8 high banked track
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:21 PM
Andrew Ruschmann wrote:

Yea I figured I could run small tires and 2nd gear works out to a 750ish something gear and the 99 dohc is like a high 790ish. If it dosen't work I can always swap it out later. My dad ran a 96 Sl2 last year with the 99 tranny and was geared pretty good with average 15's and 2nd gear. We run a small 3/8 high banked track
It looks like the 2.2 Jbodys run about a 7.80 in 2nd gear and they run really well at this track. They can't touch the Saturns but keep up with neons,civics, probes. They get lucky and win sometimes if they start towards the front
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:17 AM
i would stick with the cavy they r dependable easy to find parts n work on there is a couple mods u could do to get sum horses out of it but look at the neons u got a good head now but how long is that gonna last? you and me have seen em go at the tracks alot. as for the saturn go with a stick i personaly believe the sticks r easier to set up n run better with just changing tire size n unlike the automatic they r not bouncing off the rev limiter going in the corner and lugging commin out cause it shifted in the middle of the corner when u lift to set the car or make it turn. Oh by the way Andrew ill prolly be getting ahold of u or ur dad ill b lookin for sum parts soon jus waiting to find out a couple other options first. see u at the races dnt know if ill have my car done this yr or not lookin at th possibilty of neck surgery.
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Sunday, February 21, 2010 10:21 AM
and with the saturn if you 5 spd swap it but use the auto pcm then you have no rev limiter, but the ses light will be on and some people claim that it runs a really wonkey spark table.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Monday, February 22, 2010 4:55 AM
If you do decide to run an auto pcm with the 5spd, i would make sure to set a shift light and not go over it. I did that originally and blew up a couple of motors by overheating them and over revving them. 6800 rpm's is plenty for a saturn. You also need to shave down the connector on the pcm plug to do this.




1994 Cavalier 2.2 5 Speed - Scrapped.
1994 Cavalier Z24 3.1 Auto - Enduro
1995 Cavalier 2.2 Auto - Figure 8

Re: Need some thoughts and opinions Circle dirt car
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:42 PM
Go with the saturn .at our track the saturns are fast but the cavaliers run descent also. Neons are fast but last year there was 4 of them hit the wall due to the front spindle breaking
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