Spring Rates for asphalt - Racing Forum

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Spring Rates for asphalt
Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:15 PM
I wasn't going to post my question first But here it is:
All we had to do was heat the left front and right rear spring started with about 64% diagnal and once to the track had to back off the swaybar almost all the way and that made it pretty good. We got a little body roll but it is REAL good going in to the corners that way. I really need to get the car not to push coming out of the corners. I race streetstocck and these are WAY different than that.
I need to get a starting point for spring rates and any other help someone can give me. We can run race spring this year.
I also read on a post by Bob Gutipel that he had made a rear brace for the axle to make it stiffer? and I seem to recall someone else said to remove the swaybar completely.


I was on here late last summer put together a sunfire for my 14 year old son. Let me tell the story: He turned 14 on the 7th of June, car was not ready(rain day anyway) got the car finished for the next week.
Made 6 hot laps and spun a rod bearing, done for the day. then I got on here and with some great help got enough pieces together (had four 2.2 apart on the garage floor at noon on saturday before the race). 12:30 that night fired it up, the only thing that was new was the gaskets and rod bearings, three rods and pistons had 178000 miles on them and the forth had 210000.
On the 21st he started his first race. Did well, finished mid pack 15 cars in the field. no bumps or broken parts.
On the 28th he won the damn A feature.

Man talk about PROUD!!!!
I was strapped in my streetstock and had to loosen the belts just a little.
He works hard and is well respected by his competitors.
I will try to post the video of his win. but here is some of the action at our track on the 4cyl class


Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:26 PM
Sorry, you said a lot of different things in your post so I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

But a tie bar between the rear struts really tightens up cornering response.
http://www.overkillengineeringmotorsports.com (OEM) makes one, someone else does too but I can't remember.

Keeping the rear spring rate high in comparison to the front also helps cornering with fwd.

Hopefully people more knowledgeable than me can chime in here too.



Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:51 PM
i have my rear axle brace for sale, make an offer, i love my axle brace but one of the tracks we goto wont allow it any longer and is making me buy a sway bar for it...


also we run stiffer on the left hen we do the right, and run really soft in the front (150-200) and stiff in the back (350-400) we run on a fairly flat track but tis setup has worked good on most track we went to up here. i cna helpw ith about anythnig but ask some specific questions
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:37 PM
tire pressures can help to get the car to rotate as well.

run the front a tad lower than the rear and you'd be surprised what can be accomplished with just a few pounds difference.



Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:56 PM
strat81 wrote:

tire pressures can help to get the car to rotate as well.

run the front a tad lower than the rear and you'd be surprised what can be accomplished with just a few pounds difference.


on a circle track liek he is running front to rear has little effect. it also depends on his tires. we run hoosier racing tires and have teh lefts in the 9-12 range cold and rights in the 22-26 range cold
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:51 AM
First I would like to thank all of you who respond.It seems ass backwards but I can almost wrap my mind around those spring rates. so the sway control is mostly in the rear then to keep both front tires on the ground. and the front sway bar is unhooked?
What are your corner weights?
I think those spring rates would be close even though we are running 225DOT tires. mostlystock body.
Is that axle brace just to act as sway control and stiffen the axle for that reason?
like I said we are close now make the top 4 about every week.
we are able to run race springs this year and need to know where to start.
3 pounds of air in my super stock makes a HUGE difference, so I believe we have gone beyond that with this setup.
thanks again !
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:51 AM
First I would like to thank all of you who respond.It seems ass backwards but I can almost wrap my mind around those spring rates. so the sway control is mostly in the rear then to keep both front tires on the ground. and the front sway bar is unhooked?
What are your corner weights?
I think those spring rates would be close even though we are running 225DOT tires. mostlystock body.
Is that axle brace just to act as sway control and stiffen the axle for that reason?
like I said we are close now make the top 4 about every week.
we are able to run race springs this year and need to know where to start.
3 pounds of air in my super stock makes a HUGE difference, so I believe we have gone beyond that with this setup.
thanks again !
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:57 PM
we runa stock cavalier tiny front swaybar and adjust the left side, keep it neutral with driver in car and then when you turn it it will grab and yank teh car left some.

ya the axle braces is just liek a solid sway bar the axles loses 90% of its flex with that bar.

our corner weights are,

747 677
478 299

2204 overall 55.6 left, 35% rear 52.4 cross

that is race ready on the scales with about 200lbs of lead on LF floorboard
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Friday, March 26, 2010 10:10 AM
that is just what I need! Now even though it still seems backwards,I can make sense of it! Bear with me while my little brain makes this work. the car is naturally loose this way , wich would help it steer, until you ar on the brakes, then the split in the front springs help tighten it up = neutral. in the middle of the corner off the brakes, in the turn may be a little loose. On exit,or at least back on the gas the sway bar would tighten it back up.
how about ride hight?
then I need to ask if there is any fuel injection engines in your history of engine build s
our class is not quite ready for the whole hand built intake deal yet. I would like to use the stock fuel and control and take it as far as I can go with reprograming the stock ecm.
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Friday, March 26, 2010 10:10 AM
that is just what I need! Now even though it still seems backwards,I can make sense of it! Bear with me while my little brain makes this work. the car is naturally loose this way , wich would help it steer, until you ar on the brakes, then the split in the front springs help tighten it up = neutral. in the middle of the corner off the brakes, in the turn may be a little loose. On exit,or at least back on the gas the sway bar would tighten it back up.
how about ride hight?
then I need to ask if there is any fuel injection engines in your history of engine build s
our class is not quite ready for the whole hand built intake deal yet. I would like to use the stock fuel and control and take it as far as I can go with reprograming the stock ecm.
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Friday, March 26, 2010 11:10 AM
you cna run sotck FI on a high comp bottom end but leave the cam stock... Brakes? we dont use them haha. we run at 5" ride height but that is at or tube frame. the lowest factory part is like 4"

the cars do run really loose when you turn in the sway bar snaps the car elft but controllable

Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Monday, March 29, 2010 11:25 AM
Now that I'm getting read to order springs, that lead is plus the driver or in place of the driver while on the scale?

gonna guess at placement of the springs

200 150
350 400
or how bout like our street stock?

150 200
400 350 this would make more sense to me but the power is at the wrong end of these things lol.

again many thanks!
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Monday, March 29, 2010 11:02 PM
always have teh left heavier than teh right to force pressure tot he outside and make the sway bar work, do you know what your overall weight is,

our lead is in addition to the driver, our car race ready no driver no lead is 1800lbs
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Monday, April 05, 2010 1:21 PM
The car is about 2250 no extra weight only. a 6 point cage with 11 Ga. on the drivers door bars. not much else removed as far as metal.
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:22 PM
nice run on youtube id try rf325 lf250 rr250 lr150 get over 850 on lf wheel no sway bar i ran cavs have over 30 wins lots of 2nd 3rds toe rear to turn
Re: Spring Rates for asphalt
Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:49 PM
its been a while, but here w go
say, go cooter what tires are you running?
ordering springs tomorrow and I know its late but I was waiting for my ship to come in-) gonna be ok I'll make it it work. great brain food here. going to make my own rear stiffener but thanks bob.Coleman engineering is right around the corner so if I miss it we will try it again. really want to make a sleeper with stock EFI, would be glad to buy hptuners, mill the head, buy a cam, run race fuel ect. again thanks for it all.
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