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Re: answer me something
Monday, January 31, 2011 5:45 AM
My gf has a ln2 in an 2002 sunfire with a 4-speed autotragic tranny. It's fine to DD when you're just putting around. But when you get into the throttle it just makes me cringe. The motor is such a harsh engine up in the higher rpms. It is fv<king slow! If you lose to an auto ln2, just end your life.





Re: answer me something
Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:18 PM
only way i plan to lose is if my engine grenades lol



Re: answer me something
Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:34 PM
I just want to see how the car runs now. If I manage to beat anyone, thats even better, but a baseline is what I'm looking for.



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 04, 2011 7:56 AM
colt45 wrote:

I just want to see how the car runs now. If I manage to beat anyone, thats even better, but a baseline is what I'm looking for.


You're just going to get a baseline. They'll be no beating of anyone, unless they own a Geo Metro. lol

I had to be a Debbie Downer, but unless the ln2 receives boost or nitrous it is going to be slow, inevitably.




Re: answer me something
Friday, February 04, 2011 8:02 PM
Eventually what I'm going to do is have a cam and head to install. I'm looking at possibly having a p&p done in the next few months and might order a cam to go along with it. Just not sure when I'll be able to get around to it, so like I said, if I have the setup Nathan listed, this will be a baseline run.



Re: answer me something
Monday, February 07, 2011 5:08 AM
A polished turd is still a turd.

I would skip building the head and just go forced induction. It's the only way that motor will ever make decent power. A couple of years ago, I was in the same boat you were... A motor not worth the money to build N/A. So I went boost.




Re: answer me something
Monday, February 07, 2011 7:27 PM
If I had the time, money, or ability to do it, I might think about it, but with my luck, boosting it would be more than the engine could handle. Plus, it is more fun to say I built that than slap on a turbo.



Re: answer me something
Monday, February 07, 2011 7:34 PM
A well built car with a turbo isn't something I would say "I just slapped on a turbo". The fact of the matter is if you are looking for a decent amount of power a nicely built motor and turbo proves you are a true enthusiast rather than someone who is looking for big power by "just slapping a turbo on" with no regards to the motor or supporting mods. People will respect work and effort, regardless of what you drive. At the end of the day you can make reliable, decent power with a well built setup which can be done at an effective cost if you keep your eye open for deals.



Re: answer me something
Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:17 AM
or he could eco swap it easily were its an 01, and have some real fun with it



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 11, 2011 6:01 AM
Here is what I did when I just "slapped" my turbo on, just to ensure I could handle the power properly:

Motor:
Bored block 0.5mm
notched the cylinder walls
got low compression pistons
got h-beams to handle the power
had to buy larger injectors to supply enough fuel
had to get a larger fuel pump
got stiffer motor mounts to help with wheel hop for the new power
got a catch can to help with blow by
I had to get a new computer, conversion harness, boost gauge, wideband, gauge bezel, custom tune, oil lines for the turbo, vacuum lines, bov, wastegate, dump pipe, electronic boost controoler, couplers, t-bolts, vacuum manifold


Exhaust/Turbo

Got a Split Log Turbo Manifold
Got a Garrett T3T04E 57 trim Stage 1.5 (0.60/0.63)
Complete 3" exhaust system including downpipe, resonator, high flow cat and muffler
Had to get my charge pipes to fit my engine bay and intercooler properly

Then I added a helical style LSD to my trans so I could put down power better

I'm sure there is other stuff I can't think of right now tho.

Yea, they just slap on. Took me over a year to source all the parts, pay for them and get everything done. You can prob done it in an evening though. Slap. slap!

It will not be more fun to build an NA LN2. It will not respond well to bolt-ons and if you do a complete build of the motor and go NA, you will probably make not much more power or the same as a bolt on LD9. It's not worth it. Get a different motor or boost it. This is coming from someone who was in the same shoes as yours, but with a different engine. And my motor has more potential than your motor and can achieve greater with a lot less money.

It's not worth it. Just swallow your pride and choose a different route for the motor (boost) or leave it alone or do a swap. A couple bolt-ons is fine, but don't put large amounts of money into an NA LN2, you'll end up regretting you did. I'm not trying to be a dick, just realistic. You achieve more for less money if you boost or swap the motor.















Re: answer me something
Friday, February 11, 2011 6:50 AM
With 1.6 roller rockers, ported head, full exhaust, intake, motor mounts, trans mounts, a-arm mounts, and a custom tune my best was a 16.3. The car probably had a slightly better time in it, but not with me behind the wheel.

On 5psi right now it's much faster and the motor is stock except for fuel mods and mounts. (I'm building a motor in a garage but for now it's boosted on a stocker that has 150k. )

Trust me, the turbo is more fun than the Na work I did. Hands down. The install was about the same amount of work as all the NA stuff.

A proper tune and the motor will handle a turbo and love it.

The best part now is, it's faster than my buddy's modded 03 .

As for whod win? I already know lol. The ecotec.











"A car just isn't a car without a little blood, sweat, and beers." -- Shadowfire

Re: answer me something
Friday, February 11, 2011 10:46 AM
I don't plan on putting a huge amount of money into it. In a few years, if I still have the car, there is a very good chance of it being turboed. As of right now, a cheap NA build is all I'm putting into it. When I'm done college, I might be able to go all out on the car, but right now that is unfortunately not possible. Unless someone has some cheap turbo stuff to give me.



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 11, 2011 5:31 PM
From personal experience, do the Eco Swap! Mine ran me $400 bucks plus whatever fluids and spark plugs cost and all that jazz

But yeah, I had my 2200 done up with the shift kit, cai, msd, full exhaust, blah blah blah, and my gf's stock sunfire eco 5 speed was neck and neck til I got to 3rd gear... I am certain if she would have really layed down some serious racing shifting she woulda whooped me no problem... from a roll it was even worse.




had a blown ecotec swapped 2000 cavy, now just an 02 Grand Am, and a 74 BMW 2002...
Re: answer me something
Wednesday, February 16, 2011 5:14 PM
Ty Petersen wrote:

From personal experience, do the Eco Swap! Mine ran me $400 bucks plus whatever fluids and spark plugs cost and all that jazz

But yeah, I had my 2200 done up with the shift kit, cai, msd, full exhaust, blah blah blah, and my gf's stock sunfire eco 5 speed was neck and neck til I got to 3rd gear... I am certain if she would have really layed down some serious racing shifting she woulda whooped me no problem... from a roll it was even worse.



was she granny shifting instead of double clutching? i bet that's what did it.



Re: answer me something
Wednesday, February 16, 2011 7:17 PM
she doesnt slam through the gears, she takes her time shifting is all


had a blown ecotec swapped 2000 cavy, now just an 02 Grand Am, and a 74 BMW 2002...
Re: answer me something
Thursday, February 17, 2011 3:23 PM
blucavvy wrote:

Ty Petersen wrote:

From personal experience, do the Eco Swap! Mine ran me $400 bucks plus whatever fluids and spark plugs cost and all that jazz

But yeah, I had my 2200 done up with the shift kit, cai, msd, full exhaust, blah blah blah, and my gf's stock sunfire eco 5 speed was neck and neck til I got to 3rd gear... I am certain if she would have really layed down some serious racing shifting she woulda whooped me no problem... from a roll it was even worse.



was she granny shifting instead of double clutching? i bet that's what did it.



Ty Petersen wrote:

she doesnt slam through the gears, she takes her time shifting is all


that went right over your head didn't it?



Re: answer me something
Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:23 PM
Im going with the 2200. Why you may ask. Im willing to bet Sunfire guy either bogs the launch or takes off too high and roasts the tires then subsequently misses the second gear shift. That coupled with the granny shifting is my first point. The 2200 WILL take that Eco out of the hole by a mile based on my previous statements and the fact that the stock 4t40e's launch right into the power band if you brake stand it. I should know. Crank up the ShiftPlus and the 2200 will shift faster and more accurately than Sunfire guy can.

Also judging on the already seemingly poor condition of the Sunfires engine. Bad timing chain. Eeeeek. I think it will be a close race. But in a prefect world the Cav would have no chance

Everyone who hates on the 2200s power should really take some time to learn the cars powerband. 2200s cant do a highway roll? Please try holding the 4t40e in 3rd gear sometime. Sitting at 65 mph in 3rd gear I hold around 3500 rpms IIRC. 2200s are anemic below that and it skips the slow ass down shift. Ive had some decent runs in this car and Ive held my own with some decent cars up to 85 mph. After that speed all hope is lost.



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 18, 2011 4:32 AM
I must agree. If they are launched properly, they can be competitive. The shiftplus never leaves stage 2, so no problems there. If the 2200 won, I know a lot of people that would be pissed.



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 18, 2011 1:24 PM
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

Im going with the 2200. Why you may ask. Im willing to bet Sunfire guy either bogs the launch or takes off too high and roasts the tires then subsequently misses the second gear shift. That coupled with the granny shifting is my first point. The 2200 WILL take that Eco out of the hole by a mile based on my previous statements and the fact that the stock 4t40e's launch right into the power band if you brake stand it. I should know. Crank up the ShiftPlus and the 2200 will shift faster and more accurately than Sunfire guy can.

Also judging on the already seemingly poor condition of the Sunfires engine. Bad timing chain. Eeeeek. I think it will be a close race. But in a prefect world the Cav would have no chance

Everyone who hates on the 2200s power should really take some time to learn the cars powerband. 2200s cant do a highway roll? Please try holding the 4t40e in 3rd gear sometime. Sitting at 65 mph in 3rd gear I hold around 3500 rpms IIRC. 2200s are anemic below that and it skips the slow ass down shift. Ive had some decent runs in this car and Ive held my own with some decent cars up to 85 mph. After that speed all hope is lost.


well i plan to change the timing chain and tensioner before drag racing starts, and i i dont plan to roast my tires off the line, a little wheel spin is alright, but im not gonna burn them to the rims, and im pretty good a launching



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 18, 2011 1:37 PM
Quote:

I don't think anyone has run a low 15 in an All-Motor LN2 in the history of this website, let alone an auto one.


I have witness a 02 2200 5 speed run a 16.1 with a home made dryier duct intake, and a muffler. So with some nice mods and tuning I'm sure it could be done. Also good driving. Most anyone in a J I have ever seen race do not know what they are doing. even the ones who think they do.


This is also why I say the 2200 will win.



FU Tuning



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 18, 2011 2:09 PM
well neither of us have drag racing experiance, so its pretty well fair game




Re: answer me something
Friday, February 18, 2011 2:12 PM
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

Quote:

I don't think anyone has run a low 15 in an All-Motor LN2 in the history of this website, let alone an auto one.


I have witness a 02 2200 5 speed run a 16.1 with a home made dryier duct intake, and a muffler. So with some nice mods and tuning I'm sure it could be done. Also good driving. Most anyone in a J I have ever seen race do not know what they are doing. even the ones who think they do.


This is also why I say the 2200 will win.


I can drive my car ok I think and I own a J. That comment may have not been intended for me but rather a general statement. But I probably have 250+ passes in my car and ran the time in my sig with 190whp which seems like where a lot of the mp45 setups are running with 200+whp. Mind you I spent every tuesday I had off at the track for the test/tune so I was able to get the car from 14.8 to a 14.3 with just driver mods.



Re: answer me something
Friday, February 18, 2011 8:54 PM
Just to confirm what was said, at 65 mph, the 2200 is at almost exactly 3500 rpm. I do believe my tach was saying somewhere around 3300-3400.



Re: answer me something
Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:18 AM
dxdean3 wrote:

well neither of us have drag racing experiance, so its pretty well fair game


Which is why I side with 2200 auto. Autos are much easier to race if youre a newb.

colt45 wrote:

Just to confirm what was said, at 65 mph, the 2200 is at almost exactly 3500 rpm. I do believe my tach was saying somewhere around 3300-3400.


Damn straight.



Re: answer me something
Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:54 AM
Although I don't have any real track experience, I'm not completely devoid of practice. The car does have a list of victims, ranging from some riced out civics, to a few Nissan Altimas (whatever the V6 is) to a couple Mustang GTs. Thing does launch well at the right rpm. Just need to find out if the tires I'm gonna probably be stuck using are gonna bite well enough.



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