answer me something - Page 4 - Racing Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Re: answer me something
Monday, March 07, 2011 10:15 AM
this is what I found...could be wrong though

96-00 coupe: 2460lbs, 127hp @6600, 107tq @5500

96-98 CX: 2238 lbs, 106 hp @6200, 103tq @4600

In my experience tq doesn't seem to mean much at the track. I have seen a civic with 165 hp and 120's for tq run in the 13's which I still find it hard to believe when I think about it. Power to weight is where its at. I saw a 125hp civic run 14.8 and it probably only had 100ft/lbs and the car was beat to heck so I imagine if it was in better shape it would have been quicker. I have come to the realization that our cars and civics are comparing apples to oranges. In order for me to have the same power to weight as my buddies turbo civic I would need something crazy like 60-75 more hp to make it equal. Also I have heard claims that every 100lbs shaved off a car is 1/10th in the 1/4. Every car has its advantages and disadvantages. My car had great hp and tq numbers for street driving but by no means was it quick at the track. I was beat by many honda's with much less power, mainly because they make decent hp in the higher rpm's and that shows on a track as I've never been under 5500rpm but on the streets my tq really shined which made it a fun DD. So now I race to have fun and beat the odd V8





Re: answer me something
Monday, March 07, 2011 10:33 AM
Here are the weights I found for both ex civics for 2000:
EX Coupe
Auto Manual
2560 2513

EX Sedan
Auto Manual
2562 2513

A 2001 cavalier only weighs about 60 pounds more, so pulling the a/c and the spare would negate the weight benifit of the civic.



Re: answer me something
Monday, March 07, 2011 10:44 AM
Could be true...but civics are a weird machine. My advice is get to the track and have some fun. If there are some stock civics there see what they run and compare to yours. If your lucky maybe you'll even get to race a few. Both cars are 16 seconds so it can be a drivers race thats for sure.



Re: answer me something
Monday, March 07, 2011 10:56 AM
Thats the whole reason I want to go. If it's not fun, whats the point of doing it? I don't care if I win or lose, I just get annoyed by people that decide to hate on something and don't even get thier facts right. If your gonna shoot something down, get some correct info. I hope to see you at Greenfield sometime this year.



Re: answer me something
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:58 AM
colt45 wrote:

What planet are you on where a civic weighs only 2200 lbs? 127 hp?


Specification..............2-door coupe..............2-door hatchback.........4-door sedan
Curb Weight, lbs.............2262...............................2222..............................2319
Source: http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1996-to-2000-honda-civic-8.htm

The hp numbers are correct.

I think there numbers are a little low though (by roughly 200 lbs) in which case your power to weight is still worse and so is your gearing, which will be to the two biggest deal breakers on the track.

colt45 wrote:

So a full exhaust and a few other things is good for 15 bhp?


Yup, your engine is a ln2, not an LS1. You are not going to see giant power gains from intakes, headers and exhaust systems. If you got 20hp from all your upgrades I would be really impressed.

1BAD LN2 wrote:

my 2200 has a short ram intake, pacesetter header and magnaflow catback, throttle body spacer, and mine dyno'd at 102HP - 120TQ... that was on a bad valve cover gasket if that makes any diffrence. she ran a 16.9 in the 1/4, automatic. Shes my DD, not a race car lol i was just curious what she would do. Pushrod power !

source: http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=161940&t=160272&p=2&r=2#REPLY

Sound familiar?

Here is a few hp numbers from the some of the members of the top 10 LN2's

LN2 N/A Top 10
3 2Bluecavy 119.00 126.00 LN2 N/A
4 96 Cav 112.00 Dynojet LN2 N/A
5 02silvercavy 107.00 132.00 LN2 N/A
6 HardcoreXSunfire 103.00 123.00 Mustang LN2 N/A
7 Badasscav 101.60 122.00 LN2 N/A
8 Chad 99.00 117.00 Dynojet LN2 N/A

Some of the above cars also include decked heads, ported and polished heads, headers, intakes, exhausts and various other mods.

Another thing to consider is an automatic transmission provides more drivetrain losses than a manual, so would also affect your hp.

I drive an automatic LN2 several times a week, I know exactly how they perform. I'm sure your I/H/E didn't turn it into a monster, maybe your car is a factory freak. You need to race something fast for a reality check. A Corolla should get the job done. lol





Re: answer me something
Tuesday, March 08, 2011 6:07 AM
On the first page, I also mentioned how I was in the process of looking for a head and a cam to pull. As soon as it warms up a bit so I can get to the cars, I'm gonna pull them.



Re: answer me something
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:22 AM
You do gain virtually nothing from bolt ons on an LN2. Head ports are a bottle neck. Hence why my car will sport the factory exhaust until it rots off or I engine swap.



Re: answer me something
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:07 PM
open the head ports up then

the head being a bottleneck should only hold someone back for so long. headwork is not impossible, and a local shop with a reputable porter should be able to change the entire flow of the head for ya. now that with a more aggressive cam, better c/r, exhaust, header, intake, better (or at least ported) intake manifold, and a larger tb and there's no reason the usually "anemic" 2200 shouldn't wake right the @!#$ up.

almost makes me want to find an old 2200 sedan as a project for the future to tinker with.



Re: answer me something
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:45 PM
blucavvy wrote:

open the head ports up then

the head being a bottleneck should only hold someone back for so long. headwork is not impossible, and a local shop with a reputable porter should be able to change the entire flow of the head for ya. now that with a more aggressive cam, better c/r, exhaust, header, intake, better (or at least ported) intake manifold, and a larger tb and there's no reason the usually "anemic" 2200 shouldn't wake right the @!#$ up.

almost makes me want to find an old 2200 sedan as a project for the future to tinker with.


Even opening the head up will barely gain you anything. Its more of a thing necessary to do to make full use of other mods like higher CR pistons, cams, rockers, etc etc.

Have not yet found a better intake. Cant port. Its plastic. A bigger TB is only as good as the manifold behind it.

I dont hate my engine. I just know its limits and my price limits. I know that for $xxxx I can have a built LN2 that will make 160 hp but I also know that for a similar amount of money I can swap and put on some bolt ons and make the same power and have room to grow. I have heard that a nice tune will really make an LN2 car feel tons sportier. Ive ridden in teh Satchmobile and it really does. Stock with a tune and mount vs stock with no mods, its a large difference. Maybe not in hp or tq but it makes the car feel better. Its hard to explain.



Re: answer me something
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:06 PM
Actually, funny thing is, I just hot a cam regrind sheet from crane cams, and a member of GMTunerz might have just found me a place where I can get a tune. As soon as I get a few little things fixed, I'm going to pull a cam and head.



Re: answer me something
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:17 PM
TheSundownFire wrote:

blucavvy wrote:

open the head ports up then

the head being a bottleneck should only hold someone back for so long. headwork is not impossible, and a local shop with a reputable porter should be able to change the entire flow of the head for ya. now that with a more aggressive cam, better c/r, exhaust, header, intake, better (or at least ported) intake manifold, and a larger tb and there's no reason the usually "anemic" 2200 shouldn't wake right the @!#$ up.

almost makes me want to find an old 2200 sedan as a project for the future to tinker with.


Even opening the head up will barely gain you anything. Its more of a thing necessary to do to make full use of other mods like higher CR pistons, cams, rockers, etc etc.

Have not yet found a better intake. Cant port. Its plastic. A bigger TB is only as good as the manifold behind it.

I dont hate my engine. I just know its limits and my price limits. I know that for $xxxx I can have a built LN2 that will make 160 hp but I also know that for a similar amount of money I can swap and put on some bolt ons and make the same power and have room to grow. I have heard that a nice tune will really make an LN2 car feel tons sportier. Ive ridden in teh Satchmobile and it really does. Stock with a tune and mount vs stock with no mods, its a large difference. Maybe not in hp or tq but it makes the car feel better. Its hard to explain.


i ported my manifold, and it's plastic




Re: answer me something
Wednesday, March 09, 2011 8:51 PM
TheSundownFire wrote:

blucavvy wrote:

open the head ports up then

the head being a bottleneck should only hold someone back for so long. headwork is not impossible, and a local shop with a reputable porter should be able to change the entire flow of the head for ya. now that with a more aggressive cam, better c/r, exhaust, header, intake, better (or at least ported) intake manifold, and a larger tb and there's no reason the usually "anemic" 2200 shouldn't wake right the @!#$ up.

almost makes me want to find an old 2200 sedan as a project for the future to tinker with.


Even opening the head up will barely gain you anything. Its more of a thing necessary to do to make full use of other mods like higher CR pistons, cams, rockers, etc etc.

Have not yet found a better intake. Cant port. Its plastic. A bigger TB is only as good as the manifold behind it.

I dont hate my engine. I just know its limits and my price limits. I know that for $xxxx I can have a built LN2 that will make 160 hp but I also know that for a similar amount of money I can swap and put on some bolt ons and make the same power and have room to grow. I have heard that a nice tune will really make an LN2 car feel tons sportier. Ive ridden in teh Satchmobile and it really does. Stock with a tune and mount vs stock with no mods, its a large difference. Maybe not in hp or tq but it makes the car feel better. Its hard to explain.

the satch is a little sportier, but no way close to a 145k mile ld9. ask me why i know sometime...



Re: answer me something
Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:48 AM
blucavvy wrote:


a local shop with a reputable porter should be able to change the entire flow of the head for ya. now that with a more aggressive cam, better c/r, exhaust, header, intake, better (or at least ported) intake manifold, and a larger tb and there's no reason the usually "anemic" 2200 shouldn't wake right the @!#$ up.


The thing I see wrong with this is that you are going to put all this money into parts for an LN2 and probably end up making the power of an LD9. It just doesn't make any sense. You will spend way more money than swapping an LD9 and end up with a motor that has very little room left to grow. It's just silly.
That would be an expensive list of parts including:
pistons / rings / (possibly rods)
probably bored out block
head / port-n-polish
cam
exhaust
header
Intake
Intake manifold
throttle body
gasket set
tune

Not to mention all the extra unexpected parts that are going to come up along the way. I would say you would be over $3000 with that parts list. All to end up with a similar amount (or a little more) of power as an LD9. That's retarded. And that motor would have almost no room for improvement.

Like I said before, I was in his shoes before with a motor that is some what of a turd in NA forum. It just isn't worth it. And my motor has 10X the aftermarket support and potential of an LN2 and it still wasn't worth it. And parts are way cheaper and better for my motor too. If I had gone the NA route (instead of boost) I definitely would have done a swap to a better engine.

If you plan on staying NA, I think it's in your best interests to pick a different engine or not to heavily modify it as you are pissing money in the wind. I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm trying to give you good advice which at the end of the day is going to leave you with the best performing (and bang-for-the-buck) car.




Re: answer me something
Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:30 PM
I agree with the above post. Or save your money and boost the LN2.



Re: answer me something
Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:37 PM
Zs Z wrote:

newt wrote:

With those mods your car SHOULD run a low 15.

I don't think anyone has run a low 15 in an All-Motor LN2 in the history of this website, let alone an auto one.


Haha scruff ran a 13.9 @ 97 mph back in the day in a first gen
Scruff's car


scruff's run was on nitrous. Nitrous does not equal all motor.

TheSundownFire wrote:

Even opening the head up will barely gain you anything. Its more of a thing necessary to do to make full use of other mods like higher CR pistons, cams, rockers, etc etc


thats a really stupid statement.

when the skwirl was still OHV, I ported the head, didn't do much else. No larger throttle body, no OMGPORTMATCH on the intake (which imo does jack), no tuninig (hpt didn't exist yet), no cam change, no piston change, nothing. just a ported head. It had full exhaust with no cat and that was about it.

I went from 16.3 to a 15.8
trap speed went from 82mph to 88mph

granted, improving airflow is the goal here.. .a ported head is a great mod ESPECIALLY on an engine with crappy VE like an OHV. Coupled with a better cam profile, more lift, and a good flowing header the effect is compounded. But going so far as to say a head port alone is a waste is... wrong.

Definitely not optimal, but a head port is one of the best ways to make more power naturally aspirated.

so far as this race goes, the OHV is not going to rape anything off the line naturally aspirated with an automatic, period.
If the manual car can launch half way worth a damn (we're talking like a 2.4 60' which is total crap) the OHV is going to get left in the dust.

I beat an eco LS Sport at the track before, but my OHV (before the ported head) was stick shift and it was by a hair. That run was my 16.3et and a 2.2 60'

my daily driver 04 (eco 5 speed 1SV) hit 15.3 and this is with a factory exhaust. A few mods and a tune, but nothing really worth mentioning.

an ohv with a 5 speed would have a chance if the eco driver has no clue wtf he's doing. but this is going to be the ecotec's race hands down. debating it is retarded.





Re: answer me something
Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:46 PM
yes your right pj, debating it is retarded, thats why i havent bothered posting in the thread for a while



Re: answer me something
Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:55 PM
I'm not debating that the eco will win. On that not, anyone got a turbo going cheap?



Re: answer me something
Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:16 PM
lol, if you had of said that about 6 months ago I would have had one. It would have been spooled stupid fast on a 2.2 as well and made up to about 250whp.




Re: answer me something
Friday, March 11, 2011 4:14 AM
Six months ago, I was looking at buying a mid eighties vette. The owner had started rebuilding it, but lost interest. It was complete except for a motor.



Re: answer me something
Friday, March 11, 2011 6:43 AM
Well I would have to say your cavy would beat a mid eighties vette without a motor with ease



Re: answer me something
Friday, March 11, 2011 6:48 AM
Matthew Jollymore wrote:

Well I would have to say your cavy would beat a mid eighties vette without a motor with ease


It might lose the race but racing ain't everything. I've day he'd be much more likely to get laid in a vette with no engine than a cavalier with any engine.

On a more serious note, 5 grand or less in that vette would get you and engine, transmission, and 500 horse.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

Re: answer me something
Friday, March 11, 2011 6:51 AM
C4 Vettes are the ugliest Vettes out of every generation. They all make me cringe with the exception of the C4 ZR1. But they would be no doubt faster than any stock Cavalier.




Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search