Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe? - Racing Forum

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Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:28 PM
Hi,

Did a search and didn't find much.


All you auto x'ers...

Anybody out there ever modify their brake pedal or throttle pedal to get them better lined up for being able to heel n toe while braking/downshifting/turning, etc?

From what I see the throttle pedal would be easiest because I can just fasten something securely to the top of the pedal to bring it up to the proper level.

Problem there is that I'm 6'1" and I'm already too far from the wheel when there's room for my legs under the steering wheel.

Next option is to install a shorter rod from the brake pedal arm to the master cylinder. Not too big a deal except for the need to re do the brake light switch.
Or, I can saw through the brake pedal arm and re-weld it...not an inviting thought...too much work.

any input?

thanks,
dennis

Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:23 PM
you have to keep in mind, that bringing the brake pedal lower will reduce the amount of space you have to push the pedal. Granted, normally the brake pedal only moves a few inches, but as brake wear increases, if you bring the brake pedal down too much you may not be able to stop the car when the pads begin to wear (the pedal travel will not be enough)

a safer solution would be to raise the throttle somehow.

the downside to this is that the brake pedal and throttle pedal are actually one piece and are attached to one another.

I did attempt to make a spacer for the throttle a long time ago, but it made driving the car awkward for me because I'm only 5'5", and raising the surface of the throttle makes it "feel weird" because the pivot doesn't feel right.

I have toyed with this idea before.



Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 2:27 PM
I just do it Japanese style and have no problems with it. Though its not like I ever heal toe in auto-x, its just get her in 2nd gear and go. Though on the street I heel toe to every stop, and Japanese style heel toe works great on our cars.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:20 PM
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:

you have to keep in mind, that bringing the brake pedal lower will reduce the amount of space you have to push the pedal. Granted, normally the brake pedal only moves a few inches, but as brake wear increases, if you bring the brake pedal down too much you may not be able to stop the car when the pads begin to wear (the pedal travel will not be enough)

a safer solution would be to raise the throttle somehow.

the downside to this is that the brake pedal and throttle pedal are actually one piece and are attached to one another.

I did attempt to make a spacer for the throttle a long time ago, but it made driving the car awkward for me because I'm only 5'5", and raising the surface of the throttle makes it "feel weird" because the pivot doesn't feel right.

I have toyed with this idea before.


Hey thanks for the reply. Don't mean to be picky about your reply, but if the brake pedal goes lower with wear of the pads or shoes, then you have a malfunction somewhere. The wear is taken up by brake fluid from the reservoir taking up the volume of the caliper pistons moving out to take up the decreasing pad in the front, and when you back up and then apply the brakes, the self adjuster mechanism takes up the space due to wear in the rear drums.

Your experiment with the throttle pedal spacer confirms my suspicion that that is not the answer, especially for me being over 6'.
thanks,
dennis
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:31 PM
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:

I just do it Japanese style and have no problems with it. Though its not like I ever heal toe in auto-x, its just get her in 2nd gear and go. Though on the street I heel toe to every stop, and Japanese style heel toe works great on our cars.


Hey thanks for the reply. I'll have to google "japanese style heel/toe" unless you've got a link or something to explain for me.
I did auto x in my PT Cruiser (RIP, my son got rear ended and it was pushed in 18"; he's ok) and had a blast. You're right about 2nd gear only. It was slightly better pedal setup.

My home county is where "Deal's Gap" aka " the Dragon" is. http://www.tailofthedragon.com/
When I leave work, I turn left on hwy 129. If I went straight I'd go right to the dragon. My house looks out onto the foothills of the smoky mountains and the ridge where the foothills parkway is. We enjoy corners around here.
We've also got a 1/8 mile drag strip within 10 miles http://411dragway.info/

Anyway, I'd like a better pedal setup. All ideas are welcome.
dennis
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:32 PM
The envy is pouring out of me. Let me find a video of DK where they show his feet.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:41 PM
I was calling it the wrong thing, I just like reverse Japanese style. You can see Japanese style in this video starting at 1:55. Its toes on the brake heel on the gas, I do it opposite in this car. At 6:15 he does it the way I do though.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, December 20, 2011 3:44 PM

1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 5:06 PM
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:

I was calling it the wrong thing, I just like reverse Japanese style. You can see Japanese style in this video starting at 1:55. Its toes on the brake heel on the gas, I do it opposite in this car. At 6:15 he does it the way I do though.



That's a cool video. Too bad we don't get to drive the dragon like that. Going up the dragon is fun but downhill can be scary. We have several out of state folks die every year. Sometimes its a local. They meed to ban trucks but is a federal highway so that will never happen.
I don't think I'll ever be able to get my leg to bend like on the video. Old age and all that. You name says few man. I used to sell solidworks. What do you use?
Dennis
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:36 PM
Solidworks. I hate the new version of Pro-e, err ahem, Creo.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Friday, December 23, 2011 8:13 PM
brake later into the turns... you'll push the brake pedal down harder and even out the distance between the two pedals.

i actually "side step" the accelerator to match revs. (aka instead of trying to get my size 12's sideways across the pedals, I use the left half of my foot on the brake pedal and then rock the right half on the accelerator)

again, in autox, get into 2nd and go.




Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Saturday, December 24, 2011 6:17 AM
I lock my brakes up with the new setup if I push the brakes that hard.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer

Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Saturday, December 24, 2011 9:09 PM
i've found that the ABS isn't retarded with the baer setup. it actually seems to function properly and not go crazy like it did with the factory brakes.

I can get the pedal down to within striking distance of the accelerator pedal without incurring lockup... even with the abs fuse pulled.

(I'm not saying it's dead even from pedal to pedal but close enough that I can rock the foot to blip the throttle)




Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Sunday, December 25, 2011 3:37 PM
Even with abs disabled mine will lock at that point, guess the ebc reds are really grabby.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Friday, January 27, 2012 3:11 PM
bit late to this discussion, however, i just used some bolt on pedal covers and moved them closer together as you see in the photo, nothing on the clutch because it's not needed, i roll my foot over onto the gas form the brake, no turning my foot sideways too much. (yes they are cheap ones, not bothered about how they look and they work well.)





Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Friday, January 27, 2012 3:41 PM
DavefromEngland wrote:

bit late to this discussion, however, i just used some bolt on pedal covers and moved them closer together as you see in the photo, nothing on the clutch because it's not needed, i roll my foot over onto the gas form the brake, no turning my foot sideways too much. (yes they are cheap ones, not bothered about how they look and they work well.)



Thanks for the input Dave. I considered just adding to the gas pedal, but I'm over 6' and even with the seat all the way back, my knee contacts the steering wheel when I brake. If I add to the gas pedal, it means my knee is constantly in the way. To have decent steering leverage, I set the seat up a notch and just live with the fact that my knee hits the wheel.

Evidently they designed the cockpit by committee!

dennis
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:21 PM
these are very slim so don't add much, mainly just moves them closer which makes it a lot easier. J's aren't that nicely set up for this, my '12 focus is easy to blip in the stock position and my '01 accent even easier. But i'm only 5'9"



Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 7:21 PM
strat81 wrote:

brake later into the turns... you'll push the brake pedal down harder and even out the distance between the two pedals.

i actually "side step" the accelerator to match revs. (aka instead of trying to get my size 12's sideways across the pedals, I use the left half of my foot on the brake pedal and then rock the right half on the accelerator)

again, in autox, get into 2nd and go.


I do exactly the same thing, if you're actually getting into the brakes like you should be the pedals will be almost flush when you go to blip the throttle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, February 01, 2012 7:21 PM


Paying someone to install parts and bragging about it being fast, is like watching someone bang your wife and being proud to raise their kids.
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Monday, February 20, 2012 8:32 PM
I think I figured out how to do this fairly easily.
The end of the brake arm is spot welded to the pedal plate (that the rubber pad attaches to). If I simply cut the pedal pad loose from the arm and then shorten up the arm by about 1 inch and re-weld the pad back on it will get the brake pedal about 1" lower.
Hopefully I'll remember to take pictures.
dennis
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:48 AM
There's no reason to do that... just brake harder.



Paying someone to install parts and bragging about it being fast, is like watching someone bang your wife and being proud to raise their kids.
Re: Modified brake pedal for better heel and toe?
Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:35 PM
I used one of those pedal kits and put a half inch plywood under the gas pedle with longer screws. that works well for me alot better than stock


see ya!

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