How to improve American cars - Page 2 - Other Cars Forum

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Re: How to improve American cars
Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:33 PM
Gm is done why are talking about it now
its time to buy a VW
and get the producers sound track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUfkMkVbwo
so goose step to you VW dealer and join the party i mean buy a GtI

Re: How to improve American cars
Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:01 PM
Alright, with only 6 posts left for the month, and no real extra funds to go premium, I chose this thread as one of the 6 that gets my attention...

The way I look at it, it's too little too late anyway. I will say my opinion on what should have been done from the start, but never did get on it's feet. Also, Focusing more on Asia than Europe. Asia seems to have it down right, Europe does too, but in a totally different sense and I don't feel like getting into the German, British, and Italian car companies and how they stay alive.

First, refinement. Some of you have already mentioned it, and it is a very valid point. If each of the big 3 had a car to compete with everything the Japanese companies have, without sacrificing refinement, quality, or over all comfort, they would clearly have done better. Lets say that Honda's way of thinking is the right way(which, if you look at how they are doing compaired to the big 3, it is). They went "Look, it might not be the cheapest car on the market, but lets put out a nice small gas sipper to appeal to just about everyone. It will come standard with a couple things that might be optional in most companies.Then lets go ahead and bring out a midsize. It will come with even more 'options' standard and be an over all nice car. If we want to get more into the high end market, we will have a relatively small sister company deal with it,and go all out with the comforts, luxuries, and occasional power increases. We call that Acura." The ridgeline DID sell, but not overly well, Honda from their start until they started dabbling in other things worked wonders. Their little SUV's even do well to this day.

Honda just has it right, not oversaturating the market with 3 or 4 makes, each having multiple models as being the same damn car. keep it simple!

So compairing Ford and GM(@!#$ chrystler, I don't feel like talking about all 3 lol) to Honda:
1.SMALL CAR: Civic, Cobalt(make the SS a much bigger jump in styling than the base model please!), and Focus. All three of these cars should be directly competing, and should have similar refinement and horsepower. If you sacrifice being priced a bit lower than the Civic in order to make an equaly nice car, you have made a wise choice.
2.FAMILY CAR: Accord, Fusion, Malibu. Offering a coupe in this category shouldn't be needed, but the Accord coupe sure is a nice looking car. Offer more standard features that people want! Make power windows and locks standard. Make a nice stereo head unit standard, no tape decks or JUST cd functions with ugly big buttons and no special features. Hell, in this class make power seats and keyless entry standard.
3. ALWAYS HAVE THAT HYBRID OR FUEL CELL VEHICLE IN THE LINEUP. Lets say Ford makes something similar to a Fit or Aveo, or maybe they just offer a special hybrid version of the Focus. That would suffice. But I say Fit hybrid, Aveo hybrid, Focus hybrid or other Ford equivelant, possibly that new Fiesta they are talking about. Something small and simple and great on gas.
4. SPORTY 4BANGER: S2000, Sky, something from Ford. Again, Ford is riding on that Mustang way too much and needs to ditch the Taurus and find something to compete in this category. A lightweight, 2 seat, RWD, 4 cylander sports car. Something that can have some options, the sporty feel, and decent gas mileage.
5. SMALL SUV: Unfortunately a mini van is not on everyones wanted list, and a large SUV isn't either. This IS a market that needs to be around. So lets go like this: CR-V, Escape, Equinox. You don't need 3 or 4 crossovers or small SUVs for a single damn manufacturer.
6. LARGE SUV: Pilot, Explorer, Tahoe. Get rid of the damn Expedition and Suburban. Do we need that half work van/half SUV vehicle? They are huge, horrid on gas, and unneccesary. With gas prices being this much higher than back in the day, we need to think a tad smaller, and the general public can sure agree with that.
7. Mini-van. I think every manufacturer should have one.
8. PICKUP: Obviously there is a market here, and I think having a Colorado/S-10 size and a fullsize is important. This category is simple to explain, so I wont bother.


Now, about the remaining category's: A work van is a vital part of the big 3, so obviously having them is not going to change. But again, no crossing over. Let GMC take car of trucks and work vans, give chevy a mini van and leave it at that. Give Pontiac the enthusiast driven feel again. A G8, A G6, A GTO version of the Camaro. Maybe even toss the Camaro, like old times. TOSS SATURN AND KEEP THE ASTRA AS A PONTIAC SPORT COMPACT. Saab, I think needs to stay. GM owning them does not take away from their roots and their customer base. Do away with Buick, and Do away with Mercury. GM has Cadillac and Ford has Lincoln. If people want a nice luxury car, they have them there. No need for that grey area in between the Chevy or Ford family car, and the Caddy or Lincoln luxury car. Let the old folks and cops drive Malibu's and Fusions.

A cleaning up, reorganizing, and downsizing of all the unneeded models will not solve the problem completely, but will let them focus on a smaller line up, making their cars better over all, and putting them in that Honda frame of mind, that they need to. toss out a special edition or over the top sports or Muscle car, but just 1 or 2. Ya got a Mustang and a Camaro. The Vette is kind of needed to keep around, but Ford might want to get rid of all their SUV's and extra family cars and focus on a Vette competitor, maybe something new rather than a new version of the Mustang.

I have to take a @!#$ right now, or else I would probably say more on other aspects of why the locals let themselves crumble... but oh well. I said enough so far.


On the other hand....you have other fingers.

In my family we teach that boys have a God-stick and girls have a Shame Cave. -John Stewart
Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, November 21, 2008 2:05 AM
"How to improve American cars?"
Label it "Toyota," heh... resale value is higher when it says Toyota Matrix or Toyota Corolla then Pontiac Vibe or Chevy Prizm.



>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----

Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, November 21, 2008 7:42 AM
I just find it a shame that GM has been coming out with a few new models that are honestly worth looking at, but people's opinions on the company are so bad, that many people who buy other manufactures do not even want to pay attention to their products. The way to save the company is continue to upgrade your products, and some how CHANGE YOUR COMPANY IMAGE.



Let me explain...

Saturn's whole lineup is in my opinion cars that can compete with the best in class.

Then you have the Malibu, which has got a bunch of praise and stack up very well to Camry , Accord, and 6.

Honestly the Cobalt SS Turbo is the best performance bang for you buck you can buy, period. Read the November car and driver if you don't believe it.

The CTS ? Fantastic car, better than many competitors.

New silverado holds it's own, as long as it proves reliable it will be a promising truck.

The G8 is a serious alternative to BMW 5 series, for the price of a Camry, as many magazine noted.

However, there are many models that GM still needs to drop

Equinox? Worst in class, outdated, and unreliable.

G6 is so far behind the Aura and Malibu... it's time to drop it or redesign.

Having the whole GMC line is pointless in my eyes, axe them and put Saturn in it's place at the dealers, people want well built CARS now a days, not trucks....

I don't know to much about Buick's lineup to comment.

The Cobalt/G4 (exclude the SS) are outdated, and i can't wait to see them replaced by the promising Cruize

Colorado/Canyon could use an update. Biggest issue with them is reliability issues.

One thing many of you forget is that Toyota and other Japanese competitors have been producing cars over here, paying people 14.00 an hour with no union and average benefits. GM's average is around 26.00 an hour, plus pension and great benefits. That right there explains why Toyota can put higher quality parts into a vehicle and charge the same price. Now Gm is forced to screw the American worker and pay them 14.00 an hour in order to survive. So anyone who says buying American cars is stupid because Toyota and blah blah are made in America too needs to focus on the real facts.

so in short, i feel that a ton of progress has been made, with a lot more work to go, but unless GM can turn around their brand image, there done.





Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, November 21, 2008 8:38 AM
Chrysler: redesign Sebring, use better interior materials. redesign 300 to look similar to the Nassau, Make the Chrysler Imperial for a limited run Halo car. Keep the Aspen Hybrid going since it's the most fuel effiecint and powerful Large suv. Bring out a minivan hybrid.
Dodge: Get rid of the Caliber and replace it with another Neon coupe, sedan and wagon with SRT coupe and sedan models. Keep the Avenger just update interior materials. Put the Charger and Challenger on a diet. Redesign Dakota for better aerodynamics. Keep the Viper as it is. Bring out a minivan hybrid
Jeep: Drop the Compass keep the Patriot. Make a Hybrid Commander. Make a hybrid Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Patriot and possibly Wrangler.
Ford: Bring the new Ka here. Bring the new Focus RS here as well as the regular eurpoean Focus here. Drop the Taurus X or Escape or Edge or 2 of them since Ford does not need 3 crossover cuv's. Keep the Flex. Bring the Falcon here as the new Crown Vic. Bring the Ute here. Bring the Mondeo here to possibly replace the Fusion. Bring this Ranger to replace the current Ranger.
Mercury: turn into Ford's Buick I guess.
Lincoln: Keep everything but the Mark LT. Bring the Ford falcon up to replace Town car. Make a hybrid Navigator and redesign that nasty bling grille.
Chevy: Make a G8 sibling for an Impala.
Buick: Keep the same or drop altogether
GMC: Change to either make luxury trucks or work trucks otherwise drop it since there's no need for it with Chevy
Pontiac: G5 GXP with Cobalt SS turbo 4. Drop plans for G3
Saturn: Keep it in the direction it's going. Bring out vehicle like the Chevy Volt.
Hummer: Hybrids Hybrids Hybrids. Make a hybrid available for every model.







Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, November 21, 2008 12:10 PM
97cavy22 wrote:One thing many of you forget is that Toyota and other Japanese competitors have been producing cars over here, paying people 14.00 an hour with no union and average benefits. GM's average is around 26.00 an hour, plus pension and great benefits. That right there explains why Toyota can put higher quality parts into a vehicle and charge the same price. Now Gm is forced to screw the American worker and pay them 14.00 an hour in order to survive. So anyone who says buying American cars is stupid because Toyota and blah blah are made in America too needs to focus on the real facts.


To be honest, that's not really an issue. It takes what? 10 hours to build a car from beginning to end? If GM pays 26$ an hour and Toyota pays 14$ an hour, that's what? 12$ more? 12 x 10 = 120$ extra per car. Not exactly earth shattering is it?
Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, November 21, 2008 7:57 PM
This thread made me laugh.
Re: How to improve American cars
Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:43 PM
Why not make them safer? All Honda Civics, no matter what trim have 8 airbags, heated mirrors (Canada), steering wheel that tilts and goes in and out, and ABS.. ABS wasn't even an option on my Saturn Ion at the time.. Stupid GM.




Quote:

Watching you parade around my bedroom in a thong was a little like watching sea lions mate.

Re: How to improve American cars
Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:24 PM
Knoxfire wrote:

To be honest, that's not really an issue. It takes what? 10 hours to build a car from beginning to end? If GM pays 26$ an hour and Toyota pays 14$ an hour, that's what? 12$ more? 12 x 10 = 120$ extra per car. Not exactly earth shattering is it?



It takes a hell of a lot more than 10 hours for a Dodge Ram to make it from first station in stamping to out the door running.. The monitor in the lunch room listed a target build line hours of 824. One cab doesnt even make it completely through assembly in 10 hours, thats not including paint. Wouldnt surprise me if it takes 24 hours for the body in white to make it through the paint shop.



Re: How to improve American cars
Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:49 PM
lone_wolf wrote:Why not make them safer? All Honda Civics, no matter what trim have 8 airbags, heated mirrors (Canada), steering wheel that tilts and goes in and out, and ABS.. ABS wasn't even an option on my Saturn Ion at the time.. Stupid GM.


All that @!#$ adds cost. I dont need heated mirrors, ABS, and I never touched my airbag in a 23 MPG accident. The airbags going off in my 00 added close to $3000 to the repair cost, however at $10.800 in the initial estimate it wasnt going to be fixed anyways.



Re: How to improve American cars
Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM
mitdr774 wrote:
lone_wolf wrote:Why not make them safer? All Honda Civics, no matter what trim have 8 airbags, heated mirrors (Canada), steering wheel that tilts and goes in and out, and ABS.. ABS wasn't even an option on my Saturn Ion at the time.. Stupid GM.


All that @!#$ adds cost. I dont need heated mirrors, ABS, and I never touched my airbag in a 23 MPG accident. The airbags going off in my 00 added close to $3000 to the repair cost, however at $10.800 in the initial estimate it wasnt going to be fixed anyways.


I live in Canada.. We got a ton of snow in the last couple of days. Driving to work I see people struggling to see out of their sideview mirrors. I wasn't having any problems at all. And face it.. If you're driving a cavalier, and the airbags go off, the car is pretty much written off. I like knowing that me and my passengers are safer.


Quote:

Watching you parade around my bedroom in a thong was a little like watching sea lions mate.


Re: How to improve American cars
Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:34 PM
I live next to and work in Detroit. Driving in snow with teh ABS disabled doesnt not bother me. I hate ABS. I scrape my mirrors when I get out to my car and never worry about them again. My point on the air bag is that they went off and because I was wearing my seat belt I never even touched it. How would 6 more have helped me? If I am in a side impact with a Cavalier a head curtain air bag isnt going to help either, they crumple easy. Another point in the airbag is that I like knowing that if my mom drives my car and is in an accident the airbag WONT go off in her face. She is to short and would be injured more by having the bag go off.



Re: How to improve American cars
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:50 PM
To keep it simple my 85 cav has a better interior quality than my mother in laws now (sold) malibu 98 the biggest pos evr.Gm has skeempd on quality of parts interior/exterior for way too long.Do I have the best answer no,but gm has way to many similar models rebadged and they dug there own ditch.Cheap parts,stuff that gets no better mpg than vehicles made in the 80's overall in general that's pathetic.I say eliminate the rebadged models,make vehicles comparible in size,quality,cost to the foreign market(yeah like this will happen).I do not think any one has a quick fix answer for a crater gm is in right now.



Re: How to improve American cars
Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:36 AM
nasty04cav wrote:
NightmaresCavy wrote:
Quote:

my ideas of what GM should do.

First off, as geeky said, stop selling 1 platform under every badge.

Secondly give each division (chevy, pontiac, gmc, ..etc) a aspect about cars to be known for.
i think it should go like this.

Chevy (family cars, some performance) aveo,cruz (when it comes out) , malibu, impala, mini vans, corvette (notice no cobalt or trucks) elimiate the sky yes its nice but it doesn't sell well.

Pontiac (FUN cars) G5, G6, G8, solstice Add camaro, GTO, ASTRA

GMC (trucks) if its a truck or SUV it goes in here. no repeats all labeled as gmc tho. Add work vans

Cadillac (luxury performace) AS IS!!!! Needs to remove trucks Suv's ok but no trucks.

Those are the only 4 division GM should go on with, consentrate on quality, and keeping up with current trends.

Hummer- the name to be sold off. Best seller to be labeled a GMC Eliminate the brand all together no survivers

Buick- just put to rest for future use. Discontinued in the US needs to continue sales in china though they love them

Saturn- name to be put to rest, Yup

Saab- i honeslty could think of what to do with them, sell off or keep as is. Should be comined with pointiac/

As for dealerships, all dealer ships to carry all 4 divisions. Dealers not aloud within certain radius of each other.


Added a little more

I would also have a NEW GTO back into Pontiac, and for you turbo evo/sti fighter.... the astra

I would just redisign the bumpers and headlights and rename it

null


I say put in the sky redline engine into the astra and make it AWD and they would for sure make some money. And camaro under pontiac badge...not happening, It would be firebird for sure
Re: How to improve American cars
Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:45 PM
This thread is funny.

But where forgeting the most critical- MANAGEMENT

Believe me I am all for America, and use growing as a country. But simply put, "Other countries do what we do better and cheeper". Regardless if your an import or domestic guy, foriegn cars have better resale, have of them shat on domestic cars in terms of options (regarless of if you want them or not).

So unless GM competes on a REAL WORLD level with imports, not busting congress's balls for a free handout like a peasent, then let them tank. Because like I said it's "PISS POOR BUISNESS PRACTICE", I would never pay to bail out suck b/s.



/rant



" Aint nothin' but a Peanut!"
Re: How to improve American cars
Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:11 PM
Its not a @!#$ bail out. Its a god damn loan. You dip@!#$s that thing your tax money is just being given to them need to pull your heads out of your asses and look at what the big 3 are asking for. AIG was just handed money no questions asked, no repayment asked. GM has been competing with and beating many imports for a few years now. Magazines and people in general just keep saying that they still suck when in fact its th opposite.


I have worked on Nissan and GM vehicles, Isuzu too, and I can honestly say that I feel GM offers a better quality product.



Re: How to improve American cars
Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:48 PM
Well If I know nothing- I know that GM is asking for a sh*t load of money and none of the other companies are.

Thats really it, why if GM is so capable, do they need a huge "Loan"? BECUASE THERE F*CKIN IDIOTS IN BUISNESS.


It's a funny day when Kia can say " Hey we did something better!"








" Aint nothin' but a Peanut!"
Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, December 12, 2008 4:08 PM
fire all the bean counters


see ya!

Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, December 12, 2008 4:12 PM
and we needed to put 5.3 in the colorado with a 6speed and a 6.2 for the ss


see ya!

Re: How to improve American cars
Friday, December 12, 2008 4:42 PM
Think of the cost for teh added EPA testing though. Could they sell enough to justify it????



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