Went and looked at one for sale and talked to the guy for an hour,he took me in the car for a test ride and
all I can say is wow! damn fast car.He upgraded the turbo to a 16g and man that thing pulls.Had some minor
blemishes on the body which had 170k on it but the motor has under 100k I think.He said bottom end was all forged as well as a forged crank.Comes with a new winshield(not installed) and extra bumper cover as well as 3 10" MTX subs,Kenwood amp,nice cd player,.He wants $3500 but to me that is too much,what do you guys' think and does anyone know what these cars came with as far as H.P. with the stock Td04 turbo?
15.2@89mph 2.171 60ft. 9.830 1/8 R.I.P. "LULU"
Oh no, another DSM thread. Let me sum it up where about 50 people are going to preach something else. Yes these cars are very easy to make fast for pretty cheap. These cars are VERY unreliable.
HOWEVER they need a lot of regular maintenance most cars will not. They are very often beat on and not maintained. So you're going to find it parked a lot more than likely. Odds are you're always going to have sensors going out and other little stupid crap. I hated mine. Fun to drive but it was always on jack stands.
Stock turbo gives 195-210 hp, depending on model. $3500 for a fully-built motor in a decent shell is a good deal. However, I've seen a lot of people who thought they had this and that (didn't do the work themselves), but really didn't. My buddy bought a car from a guy, had receipts and everything, supposedly had a stroker inside. After taking apart the motor, it was forged pistons in a FUBARed block. The fact that it has a built motor and only a 16G doesn't add up. A 1990 also has some oddball parts, which can only be found on another '90, such as the ECU and tranny...so if something goes wrong with these, it's very difficult to find a replacement. Oh yeah, FWDs suck, there is NO traction. But, if it's AWD, then you just get to worry about the tranny crapping out on you every year.
Oh yeah, DO NOT buy a DSM if you are not very comfortable with working on your own car (A LOT). Also, don't buy one if you can't be late to work every once in a while with your car broken down on the side of the road. And finally, don't buy a DSM if you're not willing to throw a bunch of money into it after you get hooked (you WILL get hooked).
Side note, I got to drive an EVO 8 last night and holy crap...must make DSM faster...need EVO parts...
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
My mistake motor, was out of a 92 Talon he owned and sorry if these thread are always brought up,I know
squat about DSM's.I have always owned older camaros' and mostly V-8s'.I think I'll stick to the plan of doing
the DP set-up on the Cav.
15.2@89mph 2.171 60ft. 9.830 1/8 R.I.P. "LULU"
The motors are identical from 90-92.5, it's what's around it that is different.
Everything you need to know about DSMs:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129861
(you probably won't understand half of those, but the other half will give you a good idea of what to expect
)
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
let me guess......its the blue one right?
On a side note,I have asked this ? before, but this guy has the stock Tdo4 turbo in his garage and I prob.wont buy the car but wanted to see if he might sell the turbo cheap.I want to boost the cav. with low boost on stock
internals until money comes in to upgrade.I have heard that you won't see past 6 psi with the Td04,is this true?
15.2@89mph 2.171 60ft. 9.830 1/8 R.I.P. "LULU"
Ha he said he was a member there,no it's red and black.Red body with black hood and black bumper off another year Talon.He also said that the motor came forged, stock and that he was pushing 21 psi on the 16g but turned it down to 16psi.Stock injectors,mounts,clutch is stock I think,boost gauge,AF narrowband gauge,some other gauges as well.
15.2@89mph 2.171 60ft. 9.830 1/8 R.I.P. "LULU"
sounds to me like a guy trying to bs his way into making you think a 1990 dsm with over 150k miles is worth 3500. and the fact that YOU didnt drive it, he had to take you for a ride in it shows he is trying to hide something before he gets your money.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:not funny... i just can't find that funny... not with 2 copies of the Candyland board game on your shelf.
Grumpy McGrumpster(BIGGSZ24) wrote:He also said that the motor came forged, stock and that he was pushing 21 psi on the 16g but turned it down to 16psi.Stock injectors
He's pulling your leg...he's full of
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
^^^
Agreed
I've read quite a few posts here on the org and have done some research myself...
As fun as it may seem, you're more than likely going to have troubles, and like someone said in a different thread...chances are that if they modified it...they've beaten on it. hard.
DSM's are cheap speed...if you would buy it, talk him down and try to get the money and buy a whole new motor if you want to go that route, that way you know exactly how many miles are on it...then use EVO parts to make it quicker.
100k miles on ANY car IMO (other than some diesels) is near the point when big things start to go wrong.
yea thats crap being that i owned one that same body style and everything. as for no more the 6psi thats dumb cause stock its at 13psi and i had mine up to 16psi before i put a 20g on it. and for maintance, yes there is alot of maintance involved. but if your like me and dont mind working on it and still have a car to drive then theres no real problem just fix it when you have the money or time thats what i did. as for the forged stuff yea like they stated above its bs and 21 psi on stock clutch um...no...and stock injectors, mine would cut out right before full spool when i ran it at 16psi with the 14b. so theres no way that he can run 21. but it is cheap fun and im looking to geting another as we speak, but 3500 for that no, not worth it at all. i know cause i made the mistake of paying 3200 for mine and it was a pos and i had to put alot of money to fix what the guy did to it. hope that helps any.
2002 cavy with 5spd ecotec(RIP)
1991 eagle talon tsi awd 5spd(sold)
1999 audi a4 1.8l turbo 5spd
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/779567
funny, my buddy used to own the same car, same year, and had the same system as that car, 3 mtx 10's and a kenwood amp, thats @!#$ up...
if i was you id look around more or like you said turbo the cavy, however id wait until you can afford to do internals before you boost..
----------
its not a hamburger, its a @!#$ old lady
Oh boy. More DSM mis-information.
Having owned, built and raced a few I can add a few things to this thread.
The "TD04" turbo is a mis-nomer. That is the turbo housing, not the turbo. In a manual 92 the stock turbo was a MSI 14b. The stock setup ran 11psi normally and 9psi in "limp" mode.
They are NOT very unrelaible as mistakenly stated above, they are built like tanks (very rugged) BUT they have very strict lubrication requirements. Having owned a few cars in my life I can state with confidence that their maint. regime is similar to other cars in their class. This is not an economy car, it is not your average car. This is a sports car and needs to be treated as one. That said many are beat on and neglected, that is when you run into reliability problems. If you ever see one that has been treated correctly for it's life they can put many, many miles on without issue. Parts are expensive, do oil changes instead.
As for the forged internals, well ya.. They came from the factory that way.
A 16G running 21 psi on the stock clutch? No way, the stock clutch sucked and was definately the first thing that needs to be changed after adding ANY power to the system. It could barely hold with stock HP. Stock injectors? Not without getting into MAF overrun. If they "tricked" the MAF then they are running lean on stock injectors, don't touch it. The bottom can handle up to 400-450HP withoput a problem but the stock fuel system can not. A 16G could be run up to about 18psi before grenading the engine T high rpm.
I personally have run a FPT28 at 21psi on the stock fuel system, that is the limit, no more air allowed
(above with the 14b at 16psi, remember that the turbo is heating the air, the little 14b has difficulty at anything above 14psi or so and you get cut because of the intake charge's heat not because of MAF overrun "fuel cut")
Like everything built it seems these days, the 4G63T is an "interference" engine. Keep that in mind. When things go wrong, they go really wrong.
This guy is over charging, he's having you on a bit and he doesn't know his car or turbos very well. I would maybe give him half of what he is asking. If I needed a reliable DSM I would not buy this one at all. From what you have posted he doesn't seem like an honest seller, or he doesn't know his car. Either way I wouldn't buy it.
I have a 96 AWD with about 300HP but easy enough to drive that it can be a daily. It needs some welding done to it as the rad cradle rotted out (initially caused by a front collision about 7 years ago). For $3500USD you could buy and repair this one. It has run nothing but synth fluids front to back and while it has seen a few track days it is in great shape apart from the rad cradle. The engine has less than 20Kmile since being re-done and the tranny was rebuilt (bad idler) about 60Kmiles ago. Car has less than 100K miles on it. You should be able to find one like mine (newer, not as beat on, well maintained) for less money than that guy is asking, that is my point.
The upside? Best bang for the buck money can buy in a car. Cars that cost 3 times a new DSM cost struggle to keep up if at all. They handle very well and go like stink. The downside? Truck milage, speeding tickets, too large of a weight transfer to the front when under hard braking, they tend to push a bit into corners but the AWD makes up for it. The FWD models are hell to drive agressively at low speed (like autocross) but can be great once mastered.
PAX
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Phew, Hahahaha just saved me the trouble of correcting a bunch of things.
X2 what he said.
Very informative,I do think he may have upgraded the clutch,but he still wants too much.And he did say that the bottom end could hold close to 500 hp so some of the stuff he said kind of matches what you are saying.I know he is a member on DSM Tuners but still I think I'll look for a different Talon.Thanks
15.2@89mph 2.171 60ft. 9.830 1/8 R.I.P. "LULU"
DSM....sports car.... It might require similar maintenance as one, but it sure as helI isn't one... hahahahaha(not quoting your name, im actualy laughing at you)
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:not funny... i just can't find that funny... not with 2 copies of the Candyland board game on your shelf.
Oh really? Well did you know it was designed to be a two seater then they added seats to keep the ins. cost down? No, sit in the back sometime.
Did you know that bone stock it out paces a Poche 911? Out handles many with a .98G lateral G rating? 0 to 60 in under 5 seconds?
What makes you think it's not a sports car? The only thing that didn't resemble out-out sports car was the price and the marketing (or lack of). It cost about half what an equivalent car would cost at the time. For that price, no other car could touch it.
I have owned many cars and I can state with confidence that if a 2nd or 3rd gen F-body is a sports car, the DSMs were rockets.
I am referring of course to the turbo models, AWD favoured. My TSi AWD made my 1st gen F-body (damn fast) look stupid (a 28 year difference helps I'm sure). To get a new 96 talon Tsi AWD about $30K, to get a top end f-bopdy, same year, about $48K. In a race the DSM will win, both stock.
My name comes from people talking crap about DSMs. Way back that's actually why I registered here, just to laugh at those who thought they could take a DSM with their J and a cold air intake. You'll have to do better than that if you think you've insulted me.
So lets see.. No real back seat, no truck space, great cockpit, great performance.. Sounds like a sports car to me.
PAX
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
JLAudioCavalier(1bad02cav) wrote:DSM....sports car.... It might require similar maintenance as one, but it sure as helI isn't one... hahahahaha(not quoting your name, im actualy laughing at you)
Oh, and I suppose you think an Evo is a family car then?
Same engine and drivetrain, more sporty looking than an evo(evos just have the evil look), and poorer handling. For the same year and price, what could outhandle them? A sports car... a cheap sports car.
Hahahaha wrote:Oh really? Well did you know it was designed to be a two seater then they added seats to keep the ins. cost down? No, sit in the back sometime.
Did you know that bone stock it out paces a Poche 911? Out handles many with a .98G lateral G rating? 0 to 60 in under 5 seconds?
What makes you think it's not a sports car? The only thing that didn't resemble out-out sports car was the price and the marketing (or lack of). It cost about half what an equivalent car would cost at the time. For that price, no other car could touch it.
I have owned many cars and I can state with confidence that if a 2nd or 3rd gen F-body is a sports car, the DSMs were rockets.
I am referring of course to the turbo models, AWD favoured. My TSi AWD made my 1st gen F-body (damn fast) look stupid (a 28 year difference helps I'm sure). To get a new 96 talon Tsi AWD about $30K, to get a top end f-bopdy, same year, about $48K. In a race the DSM will win, both stock.
My name comes from people talking crap about DSMs. Way back that's actually why I registered here, just to laugh at those who thought they could take a DSM with their J and a cold air intake. You'll have to do better than that if you think you've insulted me.
So lets see.. No real back seat, no truck space, great cockpit, great performance.. Sounds like a sports car to me.
PAX
so on a side note, lemme get this straight: you created an account simply to see how many people think their cars are faster than DSM's? A little obsessive wouldn't you say? And with that, your maturity will be noted, and all further comments disregarded accordingly. Grow the fuk up and get over your little sports cars. You love em. they're quick out of the box. They got a good price to performance ratio. The require more maintanence than most people buying in that price range want to deal with. Points made, they're not a god amongst cars as you portray them.
On the other hand....you have other fingers.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:not funny... i just can't find that funny... not with 2 copies of the Candyland board game on your shelf.
Hahahaha wrote:They are NOT very unrelaible as mistakenly stated above, they are built like tanks (very rugged) BUT they have very strict lubrication requirements. Having owned a few cars in my life I can state with confidence that their maint. regime is similar to other cars in their class. This is not an economy car, it is not your average car. This is a sports car and needs to be treated as one. That said many are beat on and neglected, that is when you run into reliability problems. If you ever see one that has been treated correctly for it's life they can put many, many miles on without issue.
Well, I've never seen or heard of a DSM without monthly problems (and not "normal" problems, but mostly tranny problems). They are about on par for TURBOcharged vehicles of that era, all of which are significantly less reliable than most NA cars. However, you will definately have more mystery noises coming from a DSM than most other cars...rattle here, squeak there, never to be found.
Hahahaha wrote:As for the forged internals, well ya.. They came from the factory that way.
You might want to double-check that
Hahahaha wrote:A 16G could be run up to about 18psi before grenading the engine T high rpm.
Maybe a "small" 16G, but I've seen the big-wheel version go considerably higher.
Hahahaha wrote:The upside? Best bang for the buck money can buy in a car. Cars that cost 3 times a new DSM cost struggle to keep up if at all. They handle very well and go like stink.
No doubt. The new 260+hp Eclipse won't touch a bone-stock AWD 1G in anything but braking distance.
Hahahaha wrote:The downside? Truck milage, speeding tickets, too large of a weight transfer to the front when under hard braking, they tend to push a bit into corners but the AWD makes up for it.
Also very true, I swear I get about 10mpg (car obviously has some issues). If you pound the AWD, you will get noticable oversteer for sure.
JLAudioCavalier(1bad02cav) wrote:DSM....sports car.... It might require similar maintenance as one, but it sure as helI isn't one
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
Quote:
so on a side note, lemme get this straight: you created an account simply to see how many people think their cars are faster than DSM's? A little obsessive wouldn't you say? And with that, your maturity will be noted, and all further comments disregarded accordingly. Grow the fuk up and get over your little sports cars. You love em. they're quick out of the box. They got a good price to performance ratio. The require more maintanence than most people buying in that price range want to deal with. Points made, they're not a god amongst cars as you portray them.
Almost correct. nearly 10 years ago I registered on this site because people were talking crap about DSMs a lot on here (at that time, go back, way back). I came on hear to defend the DSM (as in reply to existing threads) and read the rather humorous BS stories. I then found that not everyone on here is stupid and that I could actually have an OK conversation. Then I found myself helping turbo newb after turbo newb with tuning issues. Then the war forum opened and I stayed for that. I still find myself jumping into DSM topics to correct silliness now and then,
I never said they were Gods amungst cars, but they are much better than their detrackers would have you believe. Having driven DSMs as daily drivers for years I can say, with confidence, that they are not the headache many make them out to be. My non-turbo's biggest problem? Wheel hop. My AWD Turbo that I still have? Well now it's just age. No rattles or squeeks, no monthly problems, hell, maybe once a year something other than a wear item. I did one tranny rebuild (idler) and had an electrode break off and jam a valve. That meant rebuilding the head, oops, nope, new head, found a crack. That's it in 8 years of driving it every day. Not bad really.
To Above.. The 4G63T in my talons came with forged pistons rods and crank, from the factory. Yup, I was referring to the "small" 16G as I expected anyone who called a 14b a TD04 (small eh, mine all had TD05 housings) would not know enough to buy a "big" 16G. Personally I prefer FP T28 or bigger for my stuff but in the 1G DSMs it's just easier to use MHI turbos. Mutt turbos for the win
and no, I have never seen crank walk. I have heard of it though and I know of one guy it happened to. I know many people with DSMs. Yet another overblown DSM issue.
PAX
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Oh ya.. JLAudioCavalier(1bad02cav) Just before you go disregarding everything I post, keep in mind that wrenched my fist car (1967 F-bird) before you were born. Think about that for a while.
As for my maturity, I do what I can to stay young but it doesn't include using profanity to make a point or deliberately circumventing language filters.. Which I believe is an offence around here...
PAX
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Hm, curious, my registry says I joined in 2002 but I'm pretty sure I signed up in about 1998. Either way, my original purpose became over shadowed by stuff far more constructive.
PAX
PS: This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated
- Mitch Hedberg (RIP)
Hahahaha wrote:To Above.. The 4G63T in my talons came with forged pistons rods and crank, from the factory.
and no, I have never seen crank walk. I have heard of it though and I know of one guy it happened to. I know many people with DSMs.
Crank walk is the exaggeration of the century, but the stock rods and pistons are cast...guarenteed. Yeah, they are very strong, but only the crank is forged.
fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster
