Standalone vs. Hp tuners ? - Tuning Forum

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Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Monday, September 24, 2007 2:02 AM
What would any one suggest for a turboed 2.2 ohv ? 5 spd ? hp tuners or a complete standalone system


'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134

Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Monday, September 24, 2007 10:02 AM
well i took a look at both your registry and your car domain page. i think your a long way ways from even needing to considera turbo, but if your just looking for info then thats cool.

HPT will more than likely be plenty for you. there are a few things that a standalone can do that HPT can not because it is still limited by the software and the ECU itself, but i would think a standalone would be a little much for you.



1997 RedR - ZedR
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Monday, September 24, 2007 2:42 PM
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:

well i took a look at both your registry and your car domain page. i think your a long way ways from even needing to considera turbo, but if your just looking for info then thats cool.

HPT will more than likely be plenty for you. there are a few things that a standalone can do that HPT can not because it is still limited by the software and the ECU itself, but i would think a standalone would be a little much for you.


exactly... standalone is more for if you plan on going all out, hptuners should handle anything you will need the car to do. Only complaint i had about it was no real time tuning and no load based fuel tuning



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:07 AM
the real time tuning is a software thing though. they only allow real time tuning on the LSx and LTx i think. as for my compaints with HP tuners, i wish i could data log calculated torque. its an unsupported PID for me at the moment, which sucks because i have no idea if im getting any power gains.



1997 RedR - ZedR
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:34 AM
its a hardware issue from what i read on another post... no rtt for us, not with hpt



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:00 AM
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:

the real time tuning is a software thing though. they only allow real time tuning on the LSx and LTx i think. as for my compaints with HP tuners, i wish i could data log calculated torque. its an unsupported PID for me at the moment, which sucks because i have no idea if im getting any power gains.


1. RTT requires 2 flash memories or enough free flash memory to hold temporary calibration constants while tuning. This is a whole new custom OS for those cars to do that, our ECU is not capable physically of doing RTT.

2. Unsupported PID's are not HPT's fault, that feature wasn't built into the ECU.





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Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:31 AM
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:

the real time tuning is a software thing though. they only allow real time tuning on the LSx and LTx i think. as for my compaints with HP tuners, i wish i could data log calculated torque. its an unsupported PID for me at the moment, which sucks because i have no idea if im getting any power gains.


I would say the improvements you got in your 0-60 times are a pretty good indication that you made some significant gains.






Tire Industry Association (TIA) Advanced Tire Service Instructor
Graduate of Michelin Advanced Sales Training
Graduate of Rod Hall Off Road Driving School
Graduate of Vehicle Driving Dynamics, Michelin Laurens Proving Grounds.

2002 Ford Ranger Edge Extra Cab, Flareside
3.0L V6, 5 spd auto.
Bamachips Xcal2
160 hp, 196 ft/lbs (crank)
31X10.5R15 Bridgestone Dueler A/T 693
K&N flat panel
Custom side exit exhaust
Monroe Max Air Shocks
Infinity 6" Component Speakers
Credence 10" DVC sub
Dual Amp
Custom built passive x-over & sub enclosure
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 10:27 AM
thank you for the info now that I think about it if I bought HPT vs a standalone then I could alway use HPT on a later vehicle if I get another GM vehicle later or when HPT supports dodge and ford! althought I don't car much for ford I do like my G-pa's mustang. as for what you said whitegoose I'm planning a low budget setup and the turbo is for my cavi which I don't have posted anywhere (reminds me I should snap a few pics!) I just want to make what I can using a stock engine maybe 7-10psi with an intercooler on a remote mount setup ? I like remote mount because it can be concealed, and I can adapt it to a later vehicle also! thank you all for your help!


'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:40 PM
good luck with ur turbo.

shifted, unsupported pids are not always a hardware issue. from v2.1.18 to newest 2.1.19 some unsupported pids became supported.

as for the gains on my 0-60, ya there are definitly some gains we made there shane. problem is, most people only understand gains measured in hp... either way im not complaining and definitly would not go back to stock!



1997 RedR - ZedR
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:09 PM
what if i wanted a 7.5K red line? ive read that certain tables run out at stock red line. with HPT how would i adjust fuel at higher RPM's?



Listen F***ers. FASTERTHANAHONDA is a joke because I WORK FOR HONDA. I'll talk @!#$ about Fords to, that doesn't mean I can beat a 12 second mustang.
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Saturday, September 26, 2015 2:07 PM
Let me start by saying that my HPT tuning knowledge is useless although I have been tuned by HPT 4 separate times.

I am buying a built L61 Patiot Head Stage 2. It has +1mm Ferrea valves. I will be swapping in new 75# supertech valvetrain kit, stage 3 cams, new rockers etc etc. Please look at my profile for more specs.

I have got decent power gains from HPT, however at a huge cost of driveability. Ignition and spark timing to the max, killing the life of my engine over time and then on top of that, stalling at idle and other issues. I have been retuned for drivability (idles awesome ) but I dropped off in power (don't know how much, didn't dyno after this last tune)

My CRAP ECU had iritated all my tuners to say the least. They are not jbody experts, however as we all know, our ECU doesn't have half the tables it should have. When you guys are on boost and only using HPT I can on assume the same , add more fuel up top as more air comes in, tune for max HP and that's about it. Explain if I am wrong.

I have been offered a standalone by the ship doing the work. They build, tune up to 1000 hp EVOs and vettes. I know a standalone is better than HPT in our case because of the super restricted ECU. I want to maximize all gains from this project , having both drivability and max WHP. AEM and Haltech are some of my choices.

With that said , the plan is to next build the block and then go for boost. Is the standalone still overkill at this point? What is the key in tuning this ECU for max WHP aND drivability. AllY tuners are well known in the state and use HPT. If they can't figure it out, what is the secret? I am probably looking at a grand in standalone. Thanks!


"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"





Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Monday, September 28, 2015 12:36 PM
It has been said many times before, just because a tuner can tune a FBody on HPT does not mean they can tune a Jbody ECU. Most can't.

Our ECU is soo basic/simple that it is hard.

Drive-ability at your level should not be a problem. Even going boost to the 400whp point.

If I was going to go standalone I would suggest Megasquirt. MS3 is a awesome setup.

I would like to know what your car dyno's now as just because it felt slower does not mean it is.



FU Tuning



Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Monday, September 28, 2015 12:51 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself - ECU so simple that it is hard! Driveability was a problem to the point I couldn't stop without stalling! I'll look into Megasquirt! I don't want to lose all ancillary ECU functions (airbags etc). Haltech lets me keep those while providing power at the same time.

I would like to know that as well, but never had the time and I don't live in the USA anymore (car is in storage in FL). In Nov, I'll be working on the motor while I am back on vacation. Tuning is a major obstacle I need to find a way around. Doesn't matter what kind of parts I throw in her, if she's not tuned right, I will not be happy. What I will do is install all the parts, dyno tune with HPT and if my numbers are decent for my setup, I'll let it go. If not, I'll go ahead and get a standalone system. All the info I found on HPT 2 years ago (when I was tuned last), the tuner read all the pages of printed stuff I gave him and he didn't see anything he didn't know (GM tuner high HP vettes, LT1 etc.). Maybe I'll look for even more info this time on JBODY ECU. Thanks John!


"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"




Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Monday, September 28, 2015 12:55 PM
The stalling when coming to a stop is common. I have ran across it many times. After changing the way I tuned I have fixed that. You can't just tune for drive-ability. You have to tune all aspects.



FU Tuning



Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 29, 2015 6:54 AM
Addicted to meth wrote:

The stalling when coming to a stop is common. I have ran across it many times. After changing the way I tuned I have fixed that. You can't just tune for drive-ability. You have to tune all aspects.

I'd be interested to compare configs and see what we do different.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 29, 2015 7:07 AM
The stalling issue has completely gone away. In fact, I am now tuned for 1000 RPM idle dead even. He "smoothed" out my tables, which tables I have no idea. I'll post up with standalone I may go with.


"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"




Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:40 AM
The info below is from the GM tuner who tuned my car last in Oct 2013.

"Your tune was set for 12.9 WOT AFR and I brought the down some to 12.6 final AFR because richer is safer. Leaner can make more power, but will blow the motor easier. That's why I stay richer.
I really don't see much if again more gains for the car in the current set up. Under actually load of the car at WOT, I was able to see how fueling was and spark. You have 28 degrees of timing in the car now. It really should be a be to take much more if any, and if it did, its only work a couple HP and for as hot as its gets down here, to much timing is not good."

So again, I have drivability but I feel I lost HP due to this tune. Too much timing is not good and I think that is why I felt faster with previous a previous tune.


"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"




Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 29, 2015 3:12 PM
02ECOTECIMPORTKILLER wrote:

The info below is from the GM tuner who tuned my car last in Oct 2013.

"Your tune was set for 12.9 WOT AFR and I brought the down some to 12.6 final AFR because richer is safer. Leaner can make more power, but will blow the motor easier. That's why I stay richer.
I really don't see much if again more gains for the car in the current set up. Under actually load of the car at WOT, I was able to see how fueling was and spark. You have 28 degrees of timing in the car now. It really should be a be to take much more if any, and if it did, its only work a couple HP and for as hot as its gets down here, to much timing is not good."

So again, I have drivability but I feel I lost HP due to this tune. Too much timing is not good and I think that is why I felt faster with previous a previous tune.


Honestly you do not know your faster or slower. Your guessing.

Yes richer is safer, but 12.9 n/a is completely safe.

Another thing to remember is more timing does not mean more power, so less timing does not mean less power. You can loose power with more timing, but this is where the dyno plays a big part.



FU Tuning



Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 29, 2015 3:13 PM
Y3llowCav wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

The stalling when coming to a stop is common. I have ran across it many times. After changing the way I tuned I have fixed that. You can't just tune for drive-ability. You have to tune all aspects.

I'd be interested to compare configs and see what we do different.


configs are likely the same, or close. I use some filters to filter out data I do not want. Also I do not disable closed loop.



FU Tuning



Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Tuesday, September 29, 2015 3:20 PM
Addicted to meth wrote:

Another thing to remember is more timing does not mean more power, so less timing does not mean less power. You can loose power with more timing, but this is where the dyno plays a big part.


This is a really tough thing to get across to people. Especially in an n/a application, it's easy go past the sweet spot and start losing power.

Addicted to meth wrote:

Y3llowCav wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

The stalling when coming to a stop is common. I have ran across it many times. After changing the way I tuned I have fixed that. You can't just tune for drive-ability. You have to tune all aspects.

I'd be interested to compare configs and see what we do different.


configs are likely the same, or close. I use some filters to filter out data I do not want. Also I do not disable closed loop.


Yep, same here. I use a bunch of filters and never disable closed loop. I actually target the specific fuel trim cells for the low rpm, low throttle driving.



"In Oldskool we trust"
Re: Standalone vs. Hp tuners ?
Friday, October 02, 2015 1:48 PM
I am guessing. The car used to pull hard at 4000 RPM (like a vtec KICK - stage 3 cams attributed to that I suppose). Now, I don't pull power till much higher and there is no "kick". I need to get on a dyno before I use a standalone.

That is true - I was told that more timing can decrease power. I wasn't happy with the butt dyno so I kept having him add more timing until he told me that's enough lol. Never dyno'd the car between the timing addtions or even after the "street" tune. I'll keep that in mind.

About the close loop, I'll talk to the tuner about it.

Thanks!


"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK"





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