still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT... - Page 2 - Tuning Forum

Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.
Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:39 PM
John Higgins wrote:

z yaaaa wrote:

my guess is the reason the 4-3 shift is set to max is so it doesnt come into play at all and the RPM is what shifts it.

i didnt do it, so i couldnt tell you, all i can say is that it works fine.

and it wasnt the shift speed or shift rpm that was causing it to mis-function WADE, it was the VSS VS high rpm VS traction control table that was screwing it up. i maxed out the values in there and after a week of messing with everything it was the ONLY thing that worked, which basically... dis-ables the TC, but oh well.. the car will never need it anyways.


This is where you are wrong. It was the shift MPH, but you were able to fix it a different way. You are happy with it and feel your fix was the right, but it was not. I know shifted and a few others have stated that when doing transmission tuning you have to be very careful, and shift RPM and shift MPH should be changed together because they both affect each other.

Godd luck, but I would not be happy with the changes you made.


thats funny considering ron did my very first tune and it didnt shift then either. BELIEVE ME, it was the VSS vs high rpm VS traction control changes that let it shift, NOT tinkering with the shift MPH-because we did this countless times.

if you would like to see my 'shifted tune' please contact ron and ask if its ok with him and i would be more then happy to send it on over for you to give your stamp of fail.

see, i dont think you guys are understanding whats going on here. i will explain it a little better.

1.) stock tune with bolt ons, shifted beautifully...
2.) sent my computer to shifted tuning (ron beyer), got it back, did a few more bolt ons and it would not shift correctly at WOT...
3.) barrowed HPT from a friend and had curtis (skunk) help me learn the system and told me what values to input via a tune that he had created for an eco auto.
4.) tried and tried all this week doing tons of different things from raising fuel cut to 8192 to LOWERING the shift points and NOTHING.
5.) contacted pat cleavenger about it, he immediately said he knew exactly what the problem was and to max out the VSS bs high rpm/traction control settings and viola, it shifted for the first time in over a year at WOT, beautifully.

so please do not tell me i am wrong, because obviously... i am not, what i said worked, actually did.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:47 PM



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:29 PM
z yaaaa wrote:

John Higgins wrote:

z yaaaa wrote:

my guess is the reason the 4-3 shift is set to max is so it doesnt come into play at all and the RPM is what shifts it.

i didnt do it, so i couldnt tell you, all i can say is that it works fine.

and it wasnt the shift speed or shift rpm that was causing it to mis-function WADE, it was the VSS VS high rpm VS traction control table that was screwing it up. i maxed out the values in there and after a week of messing with everything it was the ONLY thing that worked, which basically... dis-ables the TC, but oh well.. the car will never need it anyways.


This is where you are wrong. It was the shift MPH, but you were able to fix it a different way. You are happy with it and feel your fix was the right, but it was not. I know shifted and a few others have stated that when doing transmission tuning you have to be very careful, and shift RPM and shift MPH should be changed together because they both affect each other.

Godd luck, but I would not be happy with the changes you made.


thats funny considering ron did my very first tune and it didnt shift then either. BELIEVE ME, it was the VSS vs high rpm VS traction control changes that let it shift, NOT tinkering with the shift MPH-because we did this countless times.

if you would like to see my 'shifted tune' please contact ron and ask if its ok with him and i would be more then happy to send it on over for you to give your stamp of fail.

see, i dont think you guys are understanding whats going on here. i will explain it a little better.

1.) stock tune with bolt ons, shifted beautifully...
2.) sent my computer to shifted tuning (ron beyer), got it back, did a few more bolt ons and it would not shift correctly at WOT...
3.) barrowed HPT from a friend and had curtis (skunk) help me learn the system and told me what values to input via a tune that he had created for an eco auto.
4.) tried and tried all this week doing tons of different things from raising fuel cut to 8192 to LOWERING the shift points and NOTHING.
5.) contacted pat cleavenger about it, he immediately said he knew exactly what the problem was and to max out the VSS bs high rpm/traction control settings and viola, it shifted for the first time in over a year at WOT, beautifully.

so please do not tell me i am wrong, because obviously... i am not, what i said worked, actually did.


You clearly did not read my post enough. Yes I said your wrong (which is half right and wrong). I would like to see shifted tune, and if he post and says it is fine then fine, but truly it is your tune, not his. This si also why I do not believe in mail away tunes.
As Wade said shift RPM and MPH need to be matched together. You sent me your tune (before the VSS stuff was changed) I compared that to a stock auto tune and nothing in the auto fields were off from stock, so that was not a issue. I realize changing that fixed it for you, bnut that does not mean it was the issue.



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:30 PM
ok so i need to back up here...

i realize that yes, the MPH and RPM settings are what shifts it and i realize that yes, they need to be set just right for the correct shift... all im saying is that it was bouncing either the fuel cut or the spark cut (unsure of just which one i was hitting) beforehand with the mph and rpm settings set exactly what they are at and didnt work until i maxed out the VSS vs highrpm/traction control table with the EXACT SAME MPH AND RPM settings. it shifted just fine, i just need to get in there and tweak the MPH settings so that it shifts where i want it to.

its all a big variable with HPT and especially with the auto tranny, most just give up and return to stock settings because of this problem.

one thing that needs pointed out BIGTIME - shifting was not the issue. the issue was bouncing a fuel or spark cut. once the cut problem was resolved it shifted like it was supposed to...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 2:33 PM


Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 3:08 PM
Quote:

one thing that needs pointed out BIGTIME - shifting was not the issue. the issue was bouncing a fuel or spark cut. once the cut problem was resolved it shifted like it was supposed to...


I'm sorry, but with you saying that makes none of the rest of this make any sense. I have compared your file to a file that Sweetness has tuned and had this same issue. The issue was the MPH, which yours is set about 5mph over what sweetness has when he was having issues. I woudl be willing to bet if you changed the VSS settings back to stock and then corrected the MPH settings it would also work correctly, which is the true correct way. If not then I'm wrong.



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:17 PM
so it was cutting fuel or spark because of the mph not being right? if you can PROVE this somehow and not just by saying it then i will believe my idea to be a rigged fix and will try and get it to shift right with the MPH settings. but as i said before, its a freaking nightmare that i have no idea on where to even begin to try to get right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:19 PM


Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:16 PM
WOW!!! I missed the part where we were all born knowing how to use HPT. Brad used the settings that were given to me by Tom (Wrench Monkey). The mph and rpm shift points are EXACTLY the same as what Tom and I have both used in auto tunes in the past.

I applaud Brad for taking the bull by the horns and actually trying to fix something that NO ONE could find the answer to. He has put up other posts concerning this very same thing, alas with ABSOLUTELY no help from ANYONE. I did my best to try and help him w/ his tune, but my knowledge in the autos is limited. I was simply working off a tune that Tom had done for a guy in Indy. It just so happens that the SAME trans tables have been used in 3 other cars since the original tune.

Yes it works, no it may not be the correct way and that needs to be addressed. At least the damn thing shifts now. Great job Brad, keep learning you're doing just fine. Considering the limited driving this car actually sees, I'm fairly certain the tune will be corrected before any damage takes place.



---------------------------------------------------
4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!


Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:22 PM
Quote:

I applaud Brad for taking the bull by the horns and actually trying to fix something that NO ONE could find the answer to


Another false statement in this post. Other have had this issue and have fixed it as well.

Quote:

so it was cutting fuel or spark because of the mph not being right


Can you prove it was cutting fuel and/or spark? or just guessing?



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:51 PM
i think what curt meant to say was MOST have not been able to fix it, and if a god like ron beyer cant get it right for a customer (not saying he CANT or couldnt, just saying that he wasnt even willing to try and fix it without exact numbers to be inputted, he just wanted to turn it back to stock for me) i highly doubt a whole lot people CAN get it right. sure some have done it, but i bet less then 10% of ppl that have actually got into the tranny tune have gotten it right.

well you tell me what WAS cutting then.. as far as i know theres only two ways to 'cut' something in an engine, fuel or spark.

it acted just like it was hitting the rev limiter or speed limiter, so exactly what was it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:54 PM


Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:12 PM
Quote:

it acted just like it was hitting the rev limiter or speed limiter, so exactly what was it?


You say it acted this way but also did not shift correct? So the problem was not fuel, or spark cut, but transmission not shifting before hitting that cut.

Also with the small number of people using and tuning with HPT, I bet it is even smaller nuymber that has played with tranny settings (I bet less than 10), I can count 2 who have made it work, I think that is enough to put it above 10%, and I'm sure there is others. It really is not hard to do, if you do it live. Make adjustments drive, try it, make more. Nothing against Shifted, but trying to tune a tranny through the mail is not easy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:15 PM


FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:34 PM
yeah, i learned the hard way mail order tunes arent the best, but then again look at wade jarvis's car... amazing numbers for an m45 and it was a mail order tune.

the car shifted fine under normal driving, it wasnt until WOT is when the problems occured. it wasnt the shifting as the problem is was the fact it would hit a cut before it could shift. like i said, i ditched the cut and it shifted. the shifting wasnt the problem, the cut was.

it wasnt like the car would just wrap out and not shift, it could not physically get to the shift point before it would cut.

think of it like a 5spd car, leave it in gear long enough and it bounces the rev limiter. thats EXACTLY what it was like.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:37 PM


Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 7:56 PM
Can you take a screen print of the field/filds you changed that you say helped?



FU Tuning




Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:02 PM
i have no idea how to do that... but...

engine, torque management, where you want to be is off to the very right hand side. VSS vs High rpm/traction control. i think it has to be on advanced as well... un sure on that though.



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 4:24 AM
If you turned off your tracking control ala the e-brake up one click....would it @!#$ under WOT before the change?




Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 6:07 AM
hmmm... interesting.... idk, never thought of it.

see the thing is though, we need to find out why the traction control would have anything to do with high rpm and doing over like 30 mph. unless it still can engage if the wheels start to spin at those speeds due to ice or something...


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, June 20, 2008 6:09 AM


Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 6:09 AM
Or put the tranny in second gear (which turns off traction control), and see if it shifts then.



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 7:38 AM
nope it didnt. been there, done that.



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 8:38 AM
z yaaaa wrote:

nope it didnt. been there, done that.


Weird. It should have if your changes made a difference.



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 9:38 AM
John Higgins wrote:

z yaaaa wrote:

nope it didnt. been there, done that.


Weird. It should have if your changes made a difference.

That's what I was getting at....just in a different way.



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 10:30 AM
not nessesarily... i just raised the tables, i didnt physically turn off the traction control.



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:09 PM
z yaaaa wrote:

not nessesarily... i just raised the tables, i didnt physically turn off the traction control.


Yeah but in doing so you did turn it off. If it is not kicking in it is off. No different than raising the ebrake up, or putting in second gear.



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:32 PM
John Higgins wrote:

Another false statement in this post. Other have had this issue and have fixed it as well.


So where the hell were they 6 months ago during one of Brad's bouts to try and figure out just what the hell is wrong w/ his car?

I know he made a post on it and got nothing but the run around on the answers. It was a bunch of crap the way people were responding. A likely story when you ask a question on this site. You get 5% truth, 5% telling you to search and 90% BULLSH!T. Amazing though, once he has a fix, then you jump all over him sayin it was way wrong and all that. After re-reading his fix, what exactly would be the problem with traction control being disabled all the time?

You talk about fixing a tune on through the mail, you're attempting to diagnose something that you don't even know exactly what the issue is. You read the first part of his post and said oh it's gotta be this. Instead of trying to actually get a hold of brad and help him through the problem like an intelligent human being, he kept your head between your cheeks and continue to have a blind view on exactly what's wrong w/ the car simply because it's not the way YOU have solved the issue.

Most of the time there is more than one solution to a problem. Only fools speak in absolutes.



---------------------------------------------------
4 Cams...32 Valves...5 Liters...This Could Get Fun!



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 2:43 PM
John Higgins wrote:

z yaaaa wrote:

not nessesarily... i just raised the tables, i didnt physically turn off the traction control.


Yeah but in doing so you did turn it off. If it is not kicking in it is off. No different than raising the ebrake up, or putting in second gear.


turning up the values to a point the car cannot physically go is not 'turning it off'. technically if you could rev the car to 63,000 the traction control would theoretically work. when you put the ebrake on or drop it into 1st or 2nd you are actually turning it off so it does not function any longer.

its like a switch, its either on or off. i didnt turn anything off.



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 3:00 PM
Skunk wrote:

John Higgins wrote:

Another false statement in this post. Other have had this issue and have fixed it as well.


So where the hell were they 6 months ago during one of Brad's bouts to try and figure out just what the hell is wrong w/ his car?

I know he made a post on it and got nothing but the run around on the answers. It was a bunch of crap the way people were responding. A likely story when you ask a question on this site. You get 5% truth, 5% telling you to search and 90% BULLSH!T. Amazing though, once he has a fix, then you jump all over him sayin it was way wrong and all that. After re-reading his fix, what exactly would be the problem with traction control being disabled all the time?

You talk about fixing a tune on through the mail, you're attempting to diagnose something that you don't even know exactly what the issue is. You read the first part of his post and said oh it's gotta be this. Instead of trying to actually get a hold of brad and help him through the problem like an intelligent human being, he kept your head between your cheeks and continue to have a blind view on exactly what's wrong w/ the car simply because it's not the way YOU have solved the issue.

Most of the time there is more than one solution to a problem. Only fools speak in absolutes.


You have a point about some of what you said. There is lots of info that does not get spread around on this site. Why I'm sure it is because people do not want to share. I do remember him making a post about this issue a long time ago (I think in the tranny forum). I did post on it. Which my post would not have been much help then. It has only been in the last few months that I have been studing the tranny settings. I have also been contacted by another person with the same issue. I have seen his file, and another file that had that issue and was corrected. I think I also remember him posting say he connected the B&M shift plus and it fixed his issues (at that time), which others said was only a bandaid, but he did not want to take other steps to get it fixed then. Which would havew require sending the ECU out or finding someone with HPT.

I was not saying he should have gotten the tune fixed through the mail. I meant getting mail order tune (more so for tranny) is not a good idea, because every tranny is different, every car is different. They might require different settings to do the same things.

I'm sorry if something (traction control) is not kicking in, then it is not on. Turning it off, or keeping it from kicking in will result in the same outcome.



FU Tuning



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Friday, June 20, 2008 3:55 PM
first off, i was willing... i just didnt want to wait 3 months in the middle of summer to get the issue fixed.
second off, i wanted the better tranny settings, i did not want it returned back to stock.
third off, i DID find someone with hpt and barrowed it from them, i simply had to wait til it was nice out to drive my car in order to fix the issue. this guy was really the only one in the area unless i wanted to spend $600 to have a shop fix it.

and it was the auto trans interceptor set at 100% that also resolved the issue, but like you said... band aid fix, not to mention when it went into gear from park to drive it felt like a bomb went off, very annoying.



Re: still trying to get my auto to shift at WOT...
Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:54 PM
welp i got the 2-3 shift to 6500 perfectly. set the MPH shift speed to 70 from 80 and it did the trick. unfortunately my tweak from 50 to 52mph on the 1-2 shift resulted in it not working properly. it wraps way out to at least 7000, i didnt want to go any further than that so i let out of it.

i dont understand how one shift MPH speed shift change (2-3) could work properly with such a huge difference and the other didnt even come close with only a mere 2mph change. both RPM tables are at 6500 so it doesnt make any sense. i changed it back to 50mph (1-2 shift) and it shifts at 6200.

any ideas?



Forum Post / Reply
You must log in before you can post or reply to messages.

 

Start New Topic Advanced Search