Megasquirt Revisited - Page 3 - Tuning Forum

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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:43 AM
Roscoe wrote:

are you using megasquirt for a boost aid? if your not pushing to much boost and will run premium fuel you shouldint need to worry to much about timing. just hafta watch yourself. it replaces the stock computer for whatever functions you want it to. if you are unsire of how it can do what it does it may not be the best solution for you. systems like this or even the e-manage are not for the inexperenced. not to say you cant do it. you can do anything you put your mind to but you need to get informed before you consider it. go ahead and set aside some time and read all the info on www.megasquirt.info. it will help you understand what megasquirt does and how. read all the parts of the "mega manual" not just the ones you think pretain to you. its all good info if nothing else it will give you a stronger understanding of EFI in general. doubling up on sensors is a bit of a debate on here. it all depends on how much effort you are willing to put forth to make sure that they are putting out accurate measurements. if you have the means to double up on them i would suggest dooing so. its alot easier to calibrate ms to work with incorrect readings but you wont have much luck correcting what the stock ecu sees. if you dont plan to let the stock ecu controll anything on the engine it wont matrer much atall what it thinks. if you do then you are best off with seperate sensors. in my setup the stock ecu will still controll the trans (4a), the cooling fan, the idle air selenoid and all the other little things in the car its part of so it is important that my stock computer recieves proper signals. its all up to you. but like previously stated stop now and go read that website. most of it is MSI stuff but there is a section for msII changes.


Thanks a ton. this is what i have been doing, so I can purchase it later and not be confused on whats going on. I don't plan on purchasing for at least a month (due to money)





Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:57 AM
Mr. Pute, PoundinFire, Thanks for your quick responses. looks like i will just hafta get off my butt and do EDIS afterall. if i find modivation and finish tha before you guys do your ill be sure to post up pics.

Volumeking333, your welcome hope you find the information useful



99 Turbo Sunfire GT | Ram 2500 | International Rollback | Mr Hanky the Suburban
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:16 AM
all this is helping alot, lets keep this at the top for everyone that wants to do megasquirt. and keep the updates and new finds coming




Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:43 AM
Ok more questions,
What are you guys doing for an o2sensor, do you have 2 of those also? Would it be ok to run the narrow band o2 sensor for the stock ecu, and then pick up a wide band o2 for megasquirt, and use the wbo2 all the time?






Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:01 AM
I have an LC-1. one output will be WB for MS, the other NB for the stock.



Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:12 AM
thanks for the quick response, thats how i was thinking it would work.




Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 5:39 AM
So any news on what you guys are doing for ignition control. I've been debating whether or not to give up the e-manage yet or not. and the biggest thing stopping me right now is ignition control when using a full stand alone. I haven't been able to find a system yet that some one has said to get the gm dis working correctly. But then i have a 2.2l ohv and i noticed most of you have ld-9. Would the MS dis work on the ln2.
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 6:31 AM
Todd wrote:

So any news on what you guys are doing for ignition control. I've been debating whether or not to give up the e-manage yet or not. and the biggest thing stopping me right now is ignition control when using a full stand alone. I haven't been able to find a system yet that some one has said to get the gm dis working correctly. But then i have a 2.2l ohv and i noticed most of you have ld-9. Would the MS dis work on the ln2.


Read my last post in the thread....



I'm using a Tech Edge 2A0 wideband controller for the Megasquirt.




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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 7:29 AM
But what are you using to control timeing?
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 7:30 AM
Todd wrote:

So any news on what you guys are doing for ignition control. I've been debating whether or not to give up the e-manage yet or not. and the biggest thing stopping me right now is ignition control when using a full stand alone. I haven't been able to find a system yet that some one has said to get the gm dis working correctly. But then i have a 2.2l ohv and i noticed most of you have ld-9. Would the MS dis work on the ln2.


I will be working on my 2.2ohv the entire week of Aug 22. to get fuel and spark going. I'll let you know how it goes and what you have to do if I do get it going.


Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
<a href ="http://www3.telus.net/public/styder" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/poundinfire/j-body_sig.gif"></a>
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 7:39 AM
That would be perfect. What all did you order for your setup.

Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 7:57 AM
Todd wrote:

But what are you using to control timeing?


visit www.megasquirt.info and check out the Megasquirt-II unit. It's a revised CPU for the Megasquirt that adds tons of features including ignition control.



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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 7:59 AM
I have the MegaSquirt 1 on the v2.2 board loaded with the MegaSquirt'n'Spark code v025g6, the relayboard, the stim for testing.

I also have an Ignition control module from an OBD1 car for spark control. from what I understand, It would be needed to just do fuel as most of the 3rd gens don't have a proper tach signal off the module and the MS needs one.



Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 8:03 AM
That's exactly what i was wanting to know. This is what is keeping me from going with the MS setup. I want something that will work with the GM DIS system without having to do extra stuff like that. It also sounds to me from all that i have read, that the MS does not work well with sequential fuel injection systems. Which is what the 2.2's are. I almost looks like it would be easier to go with the FAST setup. But let me know if i'm wrong.
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 8:29 AM
As of current, the MS does not do Sequential Injection, but that does not mean that it can not work on a vehicle that has it already. What it will do, at least for 4 cyl engines, is paired batch firing for the injectors, which is what our cars do. We don't have true sequential on the 97 2.2 . Now a person may ask "wouldn't that be a hit in fuel economy?". Technically yes, but a very insignificant amount.

But if you want direct integration with the existing systems, out of luck. The factory ICM just will not give a useable tach signal. It is all calculated in the PCM from the Crank Position Sensor and is then shoveled out to the dash via a serial data connection.

Mnimum you would need is a tach adapter from MSD to just run fuel. Probably going to need something like that for the FAST system as well, but I've never looked at it so I wouldn't know how it works.



Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
<a href ="http://www3.telus.net/public/styder" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/poundinfire/j-body_sig.gif"></a>
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 9:19 AM
what is the Fast idle solenoid? they mentioned it on the FAQ or the Fidle? does this pertain to us?what does it do?




Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 9:39 AM
The Filde or Fast Idle output can be set up in 1 of 2 ways. The first is a simple on/off system for warmup on an engine that has an idle set screw. what it does is when the coolant temp is lower than the temp set in the parameter, it will activate a solonoid to open the throttle for a high idle. It doesn't care about the rpm, it has to be set by positioning the solonoid.

The second option uses a PWM valve to contol the fast idle and it will adjust the pulse width to keep the idle at a set speed when between set parameters for coolant temp.

Neither of them really relate to us as we have a stepper motor type idle air control valve and don't really have a fast idle either. For my self, what I have done is re-written the PWM code to instead activate the shift light outputs for control signals for an external circuit to control the IAC we have. I hope it works.



Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
<a href ="http://www3.telus.net/public/styder" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/poundinfire/j-body_sig.gif"></a>
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 1:56 PM
PoundinFire wrote:

I also have an Ignition control module from an OBD1 car for spark control. from what I understand, It would be needed to just do fuel as most of the 3rd gens don't have a proper tach signal off the module and the MS needs one.


Why would you need a different ICM to do ONLY fuel on our cars?? Doesn't make sense. My MS is pulling a perfect tach signal from the stock ECU right now.

If you have an LX-347 ICM, you should be able to pull a tach signal no problem from it directly. WideOpenThrottle on www.msefi.com has been successfull in doing this with an Ecotec using the LX-347 and a Megasquirt.

Todd wrote:

the MS does not work well with sequential fuel injection systems.


Guys, you're missing the point of this system. The MS does away with the stock ecu COMPLETELY when it comes to taking control of the engine. Therefore, injection via the MS can be done anyway you want it to (provided the hardware supports it). The MS does NOT support SFI. Not a huge deal. Batch firing will do just fine with the engine (ask any of the people already running the MS).

PoundinFire wrote:

But if you want direct integration with the existing systems, out of luck. The factory ICM just will not give a useable tach signal. It is all calculated in the PCM from the Crank Position Sensor and is then shoveled out to the dash via a serial data connection.


Right....BUT, the LX-347 will work just fine like I've already said in this response.

PoundinFire wrote:


Mnimum you would need is a tach adapter from MSD to just run fuel. Probably going to need something like that for the FAST system as well, but I've never looked at it so I wouldn't know how it works.


Nope. I believe Excidum and DJ. Clueless both have the system working off of the stock ECU signal.



With that, I would just like to say that I'd like to keep this thread as a progress update thread for my project. Questions pertaining to my project are fine but simple questions that pertain to the functionality of the MS should be asked elsewhere (either do a search on www.msefi.com or post another thread on JBO.)

Also, I will be posting again very soon. After the Dream Cruise this weekend, my car is going under the knife to get this project done.




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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 2:20 PM
Mr. Pute wrote:


Why would you need a different ICM to do ONLY fuel on our cars?? Doesn't make sense. My MS is pulling a perfect tach signal from the stock ECU right now.

If you have an LX-347 ICM, you should be able to pull a tach signal no problem from it directly. WideOpenThrottle on www.msefi.com has been successfull in doing this with an Ecotec using the LX-347 and a Megasquirt.



I have been in contact a fair bit with WOT on msefi about getting the MS to work with my 2.2. From all the research he has done, he found that the ICM on the 97-99 to be barely more than a dumby module. He has said that for it to work on the 97-99 2.2, at least for spark as well, you need the older module.

As for getting a tach signal, I have had no luck. I have tried nearly every wire that the GM service manual says carries a tach signal and my car wouldn't even start with the MS hooked up as basicly a datalogger. All the sensors, but none of the controls.

If I can get it to work without the other module it would be great, but so far it looks like I'm going to need it. Like the creators said : it is an educational project. I will also be updating my progress here for others that may need help in the future.



Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 2:44 PM
This entire time I've been saying that you need the old LX-347 module (for a 2.4) or the equivilant for the 2.2 (Can't remember the part number.)

There's tons of them on eBay. I found mine on there brand new for $30. Can't beat that.

I didn't realize you had a 2.2 nor did I realize the year. You were speaking as if what you were saying applied across the board for our cars. Yes, you are definitely SOL for obtaining a tach signal from your engine directly. No big deal since you are looking to do ignition for the car as well. You have no choice but to get the older ICM for the 2.2.

Updating progress based on your projects is cool guys. Please, no more basic questions in this thread.



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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Friday, August 19, 2005 2:53 PM
I appologize for my personal lack of clarity. It happens when you are in the last 36 hours of a 240 hours in 3 week streak.

On the note of ICMs for the 2.2, if anyone who is currenly doing a 2.2 and needs a module and is having trouble finding one locally, give me a shout at kdjhomeATtelus.net. One of my local wreckers always has tons of GM cars with them and they only charge $14 CND so about $0.10 US

I personally think the Megasquirt (either 1 or 2) is currently the best system for our cars out there. If I can help people get it working for them, I am all for it. (in case you are wondering, no I do not sell them)



Kevin Johnson
Jbody Club of Alberta
<a href ="http://www3.telus.net/public/styder" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.j-body.org/registry/poundinfire/j-body_sig.gif"></a>

Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:32 AM
I have a good tach signal on mine. on the pcm plug 2 (black) pin 10. mine is a 2.4 with a factory tach but nothing was in that position on the ecu but i got a clean signal. i also have a 2.2 powered parts car for experamentations sake ill try to get a tach signal from that in the same place for those of you with a 2.2

I am going to go with ford EDIS for ignition. i have as of yet not seen a working solution to use gmdis on the tc. its not that big of a deal to install and there are plenty of benifits. i will definately be rocking a motorcraft sticker under the hood

as for the o2 the factory pcm wont have one anymore. all its seeing is the tps, clt, vss ect so it can continue to controll the iac, fan, and automatic trans.

I currently have mine up and running great and am having no problems. now that ms is straight ill bolt all the turbo goodies on this week and should be having some fun next weekend :>



99 Turbo Sunfire GT | Ram 2500 | International Rollback | Mr Hanky the Suburban
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Sunday, August 21, 2005 7:54 AM
Roscoe,

I don't know if it makes a difference to you or not but you will not be able to take advantage of a rev limiter as a launch control on your car if you go with the EDIS.

The EDIS uses what's called a SAW command from the MS to determine the timing of the ignition. However, there's also a built in limp-mode that is always active (you can't turn it off). If the EDIS module doesn't see a SAW command no sooner than 10 degrees BTDC, it will fire regardless at that point.


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Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Sunday, August 21, 2005 7:56 PM
im not worried about using a rev limiter for launch controll. its an auto thats waht the torque converter is for as for the limp mode ill check into that and make sure i wont have problems. i could mechanicaly retard the edis trigger and make sure its always in "advance" to maintain controll but ill certainly check into it before putting it on. ill just keep the boost down a little for now and simply run stock ignition. id love to just use the gm dis if there was a tried and true method but since there isint one that i know of ill just plan to go this route for now. thanks for the info



99 Turbo Sunfire GT | Ram 2500 | International Rollback | Mr Hanky the Suburban
Re: Megasquirt Revisited
Monday, August 22, 2005 6:11 AM
I'm running MS on my ohv ,my tach wire is connected to the orange wire from the ICM to PCM (I think its called ign sig A in the shop manual,so in megatweak I have it set as a 2 cylinder.Its probably different on your cars though.



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