Ok thanks for the info screamer! Would the car run on the 2 bar map with the reflashed ecu? or would it screw with the settings of the reflash and run sh*&y? just trying to learn more about this tuning stuff seeing as i dont have much experience.
Sssiiiggghhh...if you just want to run the GM flash then yeah dude... run the 2.5 tmap
...I am the BEST at what I do...
"I guess your right[BlueBoost]. Me and my slow car are failers."
Ecofire8 wrote:Ok thanks for the info screamer! Would the car run on the 2 bar map with the reflashed ecu? or would it screw with the settings of the reflash and run sh*&y? just trying to learn more about this tuning stuff seeing as i dont have much experience.
It would likely run, but could run crappy.
I knoa ECU setup for a 2bar map will not start on a 1 bar map sensor, but not sure how much of a difference that .5 is going to make, but it will make a difference.
FU Tuning
This thread has so much wrong information in it, it's not funny.
Is a 2+BAR needed? NO!
Can you benefit from a 2+BAR sensor? Yes and No. It really depends on a lot things. No matter what you think, the PCM still won't be able to read boost (anything over atmosphere). You can get better control over the timing, and I'd scaled properly, you can control IPW to an extent. The problem you WILL run into is that drivability can suffer due to lost resolution. We simply dont have enough cells and scalability to make it "perfect". There are ways to manipulate this and achieve good results, but most people don't even know how to tune these POS PCMs as it is.
I want to touch on this more, but I'm at the track and it's a b!tch typing all this on my phone.
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Solved. So much debate for such a simple inquiry. Sorry my word choice weren't those of a professional tuner, but my thoughts remain the same. K- thanks.
"Vroom."
"Yo I wouldn't race him, there's not even an interior in his car man."
"Vrooooooom PSSSSHHH!"
"Oh sh*t. F*ck that, dude..."
Jim i pmed you about some things.
pm replied.
"Vroom."
"Yo I wouldn't race him, there's not even an interior in his car man."
"Vrooooooom PSSSSHHH!"
"Oh sh*t. F*ck that, dude..."
qwk ln2 is tuning my car, well thats who im gonna take it to. he does reserve the right to deny me service. lol. so my questions are... can i run 12to15psi on the stock bar sensor??? can hptunners fake the 2 bar? how will it run with a fake 2bar??? if not how do i install a 2bar...? that would be new for me. i wouldnt even know where to start.. im not retarded i just dont mess with computer stuff for my cars very much.
matt lyle wrote:qwk ln2 is tuning my car, well thats who im gonna take it to. he does reserve the right to deny me service. lol. so my questions are... can i run 12to15psi on the stock bar sensor??? can hptunners fake the 2 bar? how will it run with a fake 2bar??? if not how do i install a 2bar...? that would be new for me. i wouldnt even know where to start.. im not retarded i just dont mess with computer stuff for my cars very much.
I can do it either way. It ultamately is the customer's decision. There are pro's and con's to each. For what its worth, I ran my car for years on a stock 1bar MAP sensor before I converted to the LD9 Reflash. I achieved great results, and made alot of people butt-hurt in the process. I have tuned MANY cars like this, and some converted over to 2 or 2.5 bar.
To determine this, you have have to ask yourself a couple things:
1. How will this be driven? Daily, Track, Both?
2. What are my ultimate goals? (are they also realistic?)
3. Will my components get me to my ultimate goal?
4. What type of fuel mods and fuel will be used?
To me, driveabilitly is just as, if not more important than performance. Think of this as a "Have a penny, Take a penny" type of situation.
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
QWK LN2 (needs an @ss whoopin) wrote:This thread has so much wrong information in it, it's not funny.
Is a 2+BAR needed? NO!
Can you benefit from a 2+BAR sensor? Yes and No. It really depends on a lot things. No matter what you think, the PCM still won't be able to read boost (anything over atmosphere). You can get better control over the timing, and I'd scaled properly, you can control IPW to an extent. The problem you WILL run into is that drivability can suffer due to lost resolution. We simply dont have enough cells and scalability to make it "perfect". There are ways to manipulate this and achieve good results, but most people don't even know how to tune these POS PCMs as it is.
I want to touch on this more, but I'm at the track and it's a b!tch typing all this on my phone.
A 2-bar will still provide plenty of resolution to not hurt drivability. We are only at ~40kPa/V. I have never looked at the hardware these PCMs use, but I guarantee the ADCs are no less than 8-bit, which means the resolution we're looking at is <1kPa. If you factor in noise and other uncertainties, maybe 2kPa resolution. When you start to get into 3 and 4-bar maps, sure. I posted this before...
Whalesac wrote:Courtesy of How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman (Page 38).
Quote:
Load Percentage___MAP Voltage__1-BAR (kPa)__2-BAR (kPa)__3-bar (kPa)
_____0______________0.00_________10__________8.8_________3.6
_____5______________0.25_________15__________18__________17
____10______________0.50_________20__________28__________33
____15______________0.75_________24__________38__________48
____20______________1.00_________29__________48__________64
____25______________1.25_________34__________58__________80
____30______________1.50_________39__________68__________96
____35______________1.75_________43__________78__________111
____40______________2.00_________48__________88__________127
____45______________2.25_________53__________98__________143
____50______________2.50_________58_________108__________159
____55______________2.75_________62_________118__________174
____60______________3.00_________67_________128__________190
____65______________3.25_________72_________138__________206
____70______________3.50_________77_________148__________222
____75______________3.75_________81_________158__________237
____80______________4.00_________86_________168__________253
____85______________4.25_________91_________178__________269
____90______________4.50_________96_________188__________285
____95______________4.75________100_________198__________300
___100______________5.00________105_________208__________315
As you can see, the 2-bar doesn't hold a constant 2x relation to a 1-bar map per voltage level. Rather, the relation itself changes linearly from ~1x @0V to ~2x @5V. So you can't "remap" your table values by some scalar (i.e "2"). This is what makes faking a 2-bar more difficult, and likely why tuning for lighter loads so difficult.
I have no signiture
Whalesac wrote:QWK LN2 (needs an @ss whoopin) wrote:This thread has so much wrong information in it, it's not funny.
Is a 2+BAR needed? NO!
Can you benefit from a 2+BAR sensor? Yes and No. It really depends on a lot things. No matter what you think, the PCM still won't be able to read boost (anything over atmosphere). You can get better control over the timing, and I'd scaled properly, you can control IPW to an extent. The problem you WILL run into is that drivability can suffer due to lost resolution. We simply dont have enough cells and scalability to make it "perfect". There are ways to manipulate this and achieve good results, but most people don't even know how to tune these POS PCMs as it is.
I want to touch on this more, but I'm at the track and it's a b!tch typing all this on my phone.
A 2-bar will still provide plenty of resolution to not hurt drivability. We are only at ~40kPa/V. I have never looked at the hardware these PCMs use, but I guarantee the ADCs are no less than 8-bit, which means the resolution we're looking at is
I'm not saying it can't be done, but the fact of the matter is that with without being able to rescale the actual axis values, and the lack of being able to edit MAP linear and offset values, "holes" are created in the MAP based tables and the resolution is lost.
Whalesac wrote:
Courtesy of How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman (Page 38).
Quote:
Load Percentage___MAP Voltage__1-BAR (kPa)__2-BAR (kPa)__3-bar (kPa)
_____0______________0.00_________10__________8.8_________3.6
_____5______________0.25_________15__________18__________17
____10______________0.50_________20__________28__________33
____15______________0.75_________24__________38__________48
____20______________1.00_________29__________48__________64
____25______________1.25_________34__________58__________80
____30______________1.50_________39__________68__________96
____35______________1.75_________43__________78__________111
____40______________2.00_________48__________88__________127
____45______________2.25_________53__________98__________143
____50______________2.50_________58_________108__________159
____55______________2.75_________62_________118__________174
____60______________3.00_________67_________128__________190
____65______________3.25_________72_________138__________206
____70______________3.50_________77_________148__________222
____75______________3.75_________81_________158__________237
____80______________4.00_________86_________168__________253
____85______________4.25_________91_________178__________269
____90______________4.50_________96_________188__________285
____95______________4.75________100_________198__________300
___100______________5.00________105_________208__________315
As you can see, the 2-bar doesn't hold a constant 2x relation to a 1-bar map per voltage level. Rather, the relation itself changes linearly from ~1x @0V to ~2x @5V. So you can't "remap" your table values by some scalar (i.e "2"). This is what makes faking a 2-bar more difficult, and likely why tuning for lighter loads so difficult
Agreed. This is why I have requested for tables to be added so tuning it correctly could be done with ease...
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
^^^ werd
I have no signiture
it will be a daily driver.. but driven sparingly. i dont have to drive far for school or wrk. maybe 20 miles a day. fuel will be lsj injectors 42# racetronix fuel pump. on high octane. my ultimate goals are mid to high 200's, im rebuilding the bottom end with forged internals. all new bearings. gaskets. cleaning all engine parts. full 3in exhaust. motor mounts trans mounts. stage 2 clutch. so what are the pros and cons of 1 bar vs 2 bar??
matt lyle wrote:it will be a daily driver.. but driven sparingly. i dont have to drive far for school or wrk. maybe 20 miles a day. fuel will be lsj injectors 42# racetronix fuel pump. on high octane. my ultimate goals are mid to high 200's, im rebuilding the bottom end with forged internals. all new bearings. gaskets. cleaning all engine parts. full 3in exhaust. motor mounts trans mounts. stage 2 clutch. so what are the pros and cons of 1 bar vs 2 bar??
Those injectors will likely be too small.
FU Tuning
I run a Walbro on those same injectors at 10psi on my t3t4, still plenty of fueling ability to go higher if I had the internals to back it up. Granted each motor will react slightly different, but I know guys on built motors with smaller injectors and a Walbro runnin around with almost 350whp on their eco's. Just my experience though.
"Vroom."
"Yo I wouldn't race him, there's not even an interior in his car man."
"Vrooooooom PSSSSHHH!"
"Oh sh*t. F*ck that, dude..."
wahst beter the walboro or racetronix. btw in the earlier post i ment in tank not intake. that made me sound like an idiot. lol. pros an cons on the walboro vs the racetronix?? why will they be too small?
matt lyle wrote:wahst beter the walboro or racetronix. btw in the earlier post i ment in tank not intake. that made me sound like an idiot. lol. pros an cons on the walboro vs the racetronix?? why will they be too small?
Which is better opinion really. Both are walboro's, but Racetronix modifies it to work properly in our kind of fuel system.
i think more people have had good success with the Racetronix.
I have the racetronix pump and wiring upgrade and love it. Had a noticeable difference in the AFR's by just adding it.
FU Tuning
If ever had to do it again, I'd go racetronix due to its simplicity.
"Vroom."
"Yo I wouldn't race him, there's not even an interior in his car man."
"Vrooooooom PSSSSHHH!"
"Oh sh*t. F*ck that, dude..."
k what do i have to buy to make it work??? any wirring harness?? i am also looking at 42# lsj injectors what do iu need to buy for those to work on my cacr???
The racetronix pump is plug and play. Very simple. The injectors are also plug and play (other than changing the injector constant), I even used my factory injector clips too when I went to the 42#.
"Vroom."
"Yo I wouldn't race him, there's not even an interior in his car man."
"Vrooooooom PSSSSHHH!"
"Oh sh*t. F*ck that, dude..."
what do yo mean constant?
