Running a Ecotec on a OHV/LD9 ECU - Page 3 - Tuning Forum

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Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 3:00 PM
I also want to add you CAN NOT put a Eco VIN into the LD9 reflash.



FU Tuning




Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 3:32 PM
Eh who care about the vin!

Looking forward to progress, I almost did this with my eco, but I just switched to an ld9 haha



Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 3:37 PM
jmarks82 wrote:

Eh who care about the vin!

Looking forward to progress, I almost did this with my eco, but I just switched to an ld9 haha


You went with the better route!!!



FU Tuning



Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 6:47 PM
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

jmarks82 wrote:

Eh who care about the vin!

Looking forward to progress, I almost did this with my eco, but I just switched to an ld9 haha


You went with the Easy route!!!


Huh ?? I fixed it for you ... Lol

.






Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 6:55 PM
Kickass. Looks i'll have to do alittle rewiring this winter.




its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa

Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:11 PM
success, I guess I have to make a swap harness so I can switch between computers come inspection time.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Update
Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:37 PM
So hypothetical question time. Think a stock Eco would run on a stock pre-2000 computer?



Re: Update
Monday, October 11, 2010 3:08 AM
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

So hypothetical question time. Think a stock Eco would run on a stock pre-2000 computer?


Yes, but would require tuning to get the timing and fuel corret, so it would run properly.



FU Tuning



Re: Update
Monday, October 11, 2010 11:12 AM
This is excellent. I do believe you have opened a new option for Eco swapping.

I assume the auto trans tables would be ok with each other since its the same tranny?


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, October 11, 2010 11:14 AM


Re: Update
Monday, October 11, 2010 12:00 PM
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

This is excellent. I do believe you have opened a new option for Eco swapping.

I assume the auto trans tables would be ok with each other since its the same tranny?


Tranny wise should be the same (except on a 2200 ECU because of lower rev limiters). A 2200 4 speed would shift lower or sooner than a Eco or a LD9.

I do feel it is possible to swap a Eco running the 2200/LD9 wiring and ECU, but depending on the reason I would likely still do it the right way. Doing it this route if the car was sold to a normal person and they had issues most places would not know where to start to fix the problems. To me this is more for a true custom car, not your average bolt on modded car.



FU Tuning



Re: Update
Monday, October 11, 2010 4:45 PM
Its the same way for a 3400 swap or an LD9 swap car IMO. Still glad to see this moving forward.




Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:22 AM
i'm sorry for the stupidity, tuning is something i know little about. in the end, what is the benefit of this? if you're just working with the gm flash which i thought there was already one out for the eco, then why all this extra work? what can you now do? again, sorry for being dumb
Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:26 AM
The GM flash for the eco is just a faked 2.5 bar, thats locked, and pretty @!#$ty. The GM reflash for the LD9 is a legit 2 bar speed density tune that we can edit. The car is alpha-n stock which means that fuel is determined based on rpm and throttle position, this is terrible for boost heck its not the greatest for n/a either. Speed density fueling is based off rpm and manifold pressure which is much better for a boosted car.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 8:32 AM
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

So hypothetical question time. Think a stock Eco would run on a stock pre-2000 computer?


Yes, but would require tuning to get the timing and fuel corret, so it would run properly.


Was the fueling issue because of larger injectors? How much are the stock Eco and LD9 fueling and spark tables?



Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:14 AM
Keep up the good work. Nicely played



Bill Hahn Jr.
Hahn RaceCraft

World's Quickest and Fastest Street J-Bodies
Turbocharging GM FWD's since 1988
www.turbosystem.com

Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:33 AM
Kind of a dumb question here as well. I have an 06 cobalt with an LE5 2.4l Eco. Wonder if they are tuned the same way. With the 2.5 bar. Could I wire and old cavy harness to the Balt and drive/run and tune that? That engine also has a form of VVT as well. So idk how all that would work tho. But just curious. No plans of actually doing it. Imelda the time and money come into play. I'm poor lmao!





Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:07 AM
Leafy wrote:

The GM flash for the eco is just a faked 2.5 bar, thats locked, and pretty @!#$ty. The GM reflash for the LD9 is a legit 2 bar speed density tune that we can edit. The car is alpha-n stock which means that fuel is determined based on rpm and throttle position, this is terrible for boost heck its not the greatest for n/a either. Speed density fueling is based off rpm and manifold pressure which is much better for a boosted car.


ah, makes sense then. i don't get why they wouldn't do it for both engines like that. in that case this is a very cool find.
Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:09 AM
ChevyBoi89 wrote:

Kind of a dumb question here as well. I have an 06 cobalt with an LE5 2.4l Eco. Wonder if they are tuned the same way. With the 2.5 bar. Could I wire and old cavy harness to the Balt and drive/run and tune that? That engine also has a form of VVT as well. So idk how all that would work tho. But just curious. No plans of actually doing it. Imelda the time and money come into play. I'm poor lmao!
Simply put, NO..... Besides, with the E67 PCM can control 80kpa(or 11.6psi) of boost in stock form with the correct MAP sensor... Much more complex for tuning. Seen alot of HACK tunes on these because people have no clue what they are doing with them......





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:29 PM
TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

So hypothetical question time. Think a stock Eco would run on a stock pre-2000 computer?


Yes, but would require tuning to get the timing and fuel corret, so it would run properly.


Was the fueling issue because of larger injectors? How much are the stock Eco and LD9 fueling and spark tables?


Timing and fuel tables are pretty different and different injector constant used as well.

Let me also add this is not 100% a sure thing. Yes the car is running on the ECU, but I still have alot of work ahead of me in the tuning side, and it is possible I might not be able top get it to run right (but I believe I will).



FU Tuning



Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:36 PM
The though part with this is that you can not just copy over the eco fuel tables and BS it. alpha-n fuel tables are drastically different than SD tables. At least if you have a fake 2.5 bar tune (or normal 1 bar) your spark tables should go over easy), you'll have to do then manually by multiplying the column headings in the eco tune by 2 and then kind of fudging them into on and around the ld9 spark tables.

Oh and did you use a fuel injector constant based off the injectors the ld9 reflash is setup for? I have no idea what size its supposed to use but you need it in order to figure out what constant you're using with whatever size injectors your using. Just kind of throwing that out there for other people or in case you didnt think of that and thats the reason its running like crap. I really didnt expect the tunes to be so drastically different, I mean they're both 16 valve 4 cylinders with the same firing order and if you're s/c'd you have the same approximate powerband and would theoretically have the same airflow requirements and therefore similar ve maps.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:34 PM
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:

TheSundownFire (GME Chat) wrote:

So hypothetical question time. Think a stock Eco would run on a stock pre-2000 computer?


Yes, but would require tuning to get the timing and fuel corret, so it would run properly.


Was the fueling issue because of larger injectors? How much are the stock Eco and LD9 fueling and spark tables?


Timing and fuel tables are pretty different and different injector constant used as well.

Let me also add this is not 100% a sure thing. Yes the car is running on the ECU, but I still have alot of work ahead of me in the tuning side, and it is possible I might not be able top get it to run right (but I believe I will).


Im just going to wait and let you do your thing but keep us posted. Once I know that the Eco will run properly Im going to start collecting parts. Ive been wanting one lately.




Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:56 PM
If you've got it running, it's just a matter of time in my opinion. It's running so that means everything is compatible - this is big fat win in my book.



Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:20 PM
oldskool (eco meatcake) wrote:

If you've got it running, it's just a matter of time in my opinion. It's running so that means everything is compatible - this is big fat win in my book.


I'm with you on that !! When I was wiring the 2200 harness in place of the eco harness I was thinking that there is no reason for it not to work .. The only thing i was not sure about was the cam sensor on the 2200 harness .. the Eco motor has no cam sensor ..

The only thing that I had to do was pull the 2200 harness apart in order to swap what side of the motor the wires was on . then wire in the IAC and the TPS on the TB , i drilled and tapped the hole for knock sensor on the block . also had to wire in the injectors ..

And as far as what size the Injectors are, they are 650cc RC injectors ..

John is coming back out on Wed so i hope to have a better update then






Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:43 PM
Leafy wrote:

The though part with this is that you can not just copy over the eco fuel tables and BS it. alpha-n fuel tables are drastically different than SD tables. At least if you have a fake 2.5 bar tune (or normal 1 bar) your spark tables should go over easy), you'll have to do then manually by multiplying the column headings in the eco tune by 2 and then kind of fudging them into on and around the ld9 spark tables.

Oh and did you use a fuel injector constant based off the injectors the ld9 reflash is setup for? I have no idea what size its supposed to use but you need it in order to figure out what constant you're using with whatever size injectors your using. Just kind of throwing that out there for other people or in case you didnt think of that and thats the reason its running like crap. I really didnt expect the tunes to be so drastically different, I mean they're both 16 valve 4 cylinders with the same firing order and if you're s/c'd you have the same approximate powerband and would theoretically have the same airflow requirements and therefore similar ve maps.


With Ryans help I copied the proper KPA columns from the Eco file to the reflash.

I did mess up on the injector constant, and I have corrected that but yet to use it (will tomorrow). It is very possible my mess up in my math is my biggest issue. We will see.

I did start with the reflash constant and figure off of it.



FU Tuning



Re: Update
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 4:50 PM
This is good. I have a distinct feeling it should run decent so long as you have the right injector constant. I mean mine idled like a champ when I put the s/c on and was running 9:1 afr's at idle. To me it seems that the eco shows no ill effects of running too rich but as soon as your idle afr goes constant about 15.5:1 it runs rough as hell.

Oh and what are we doing about the CamPS? Does the LD9 use that or only the 2200?


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
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