ive asked several people and nobody seems to know what it is.... -STOCK 2.4 LD9 TIMING ADVANCE DEGREES- so, what is it? lol
also, what are some of you n/a guys running for degrees of timing advance?
You mean in the tune? Are you talking about WOT? idle?
My stock file at WOT 105kpa goes from 15-27 from 1600 RPM to 6400 RPM.
FU Tuning
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
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yea, sorry... at WOT. so 27 eh? and i know it was raised some from that, i believe 5 degrees tom wrench monkey did. then the tuning shop took some out so idk whats going on.
talking about pauls car. hoping its got too much timing because the times this past weekend really blew.
Idle for me is @ about 10-15 degrees or so.
Wot has seen it @ 42 degrees calming down to 38 @ 6500.
Timing @ 70 mph is 32-35 degrees.
I added two degrees total timing across the table not too long ago with excellent results at both cruising and wot. No knock.
Btw, old engine with 197K miles on it so that may have something to do with the timing being so high but with no ill effects.
Car still pulls strong with good a/f's, excellent lft and sft with the lft's sitting in the +/- 4 range.
Brad couldn't believe the timing I'm running in the car. Runs great.
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO! 
If you are not knocking at that level of timing advance at WOT then you have a serious airflow restriction. That is the kind of advance we see on cars in classes that have to run intake restrictors.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Don't see how. Straight as you can get cai to the fenderwell with no battery in the way of the tube. Straight shot.
Full 2.5 exhaust with no cat, 12 inch resonator and 12 inch cherry bomb. Exhaust flows quite free and flows tons of air.
62mm throttle body with bored intake manifold and I keep the intake runners clean by cleaning it once a year to keep the runners clean and free of oil etc. No EGR either.
Flows quite well.
Like said, car runs great, and probably is running better times in the 1/4 than previously but still haven't taken it to the track. Pulls so much better on the top end that previously with good pull to 100+.
If it blows up it blows up. Good excuse then for the engine swap and tranny swap once the money comes back.
Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!
hmmm, weird. super conservative cam? one of those "bad" 2.3 intakes? its just weird to see that much timing under load without knock on an engine that doesnt have an intake restrictor. Hell man, if you dont have knock start leaning the desired afr at WOT out towards 13.4 to make more power.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
I bet the power is down from the timing. You can have too much.
FU Tuning
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:I bet the power is down from the timing. You can have too much.
well thats what we are thinking (and hoping). WOT AFR is in low 11's says the wideband but plugs tell a lean story. so who knows...
should be going on the dyno soon. i was just blown away that the tune could be off that much however... it was pulling 190's cranking pressure last year with that tune and now is pulling 250's. thats one hell of a jump in cranking pressure.
z yaaaa wrote:Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:I bet the power is down from the timing. You can have too much.
well thats what we are thinking (and hoping). WOT AFR is in low 11's says the wideband but plugs tell a lean story. so who knows...
should be going on the dyno soon. i was just blown away that the tune could be off that much however... it was pulling 190's cranking pressure last year with that tune and now is pulling 250's. thats one hell of a jump in cranking pressure.
Thats incredibly rich for N/A... You should be in the 12.5-12.8 range. Are the plugs yellow and blistered then or just white? If yellow and blistered I would say you need to look at a colder plug... If white you have contamination issues, either oil or bad gas.
and since when is 38 degrees alot of timing? our Race gas (c12) SBC 400 @ 14.68:1 Comp runs out at 37 degrees at 6k
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
^^ right, thats a small block chevy, this is a quad 4. completely different engine. it was running race gas but just because the gas has more octane doesnt mean the engine needs or wants more timing. the engine only needs as much as timing as it needs. besides, we dont even know if this is the problem yet. we'll get it on the dyno where they will datalog it etc and get it straightened out. .. hopefully
plugs were goldish brown with a little white here and there but nothing to bad. like i said, wideband says one story, plugs a different one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, May 31, 2011 5:38 AM
Quote:
plugs were goldish brown with a little white here and there but nothing to bad. like i said, wideband says one story, plugs a different one.
Sounds like it is burning right on the plugs.
FU Tuning
z yaaaa wrote:^^ right, thats a small block chevy, this is a quad 4. completely different engine. it was running race gas but just because the gas has more octane doesnt mean the engine needs or wants more timing. the engine only needs as much as timing as it needs. besides, we dont even know if this is the problem yet. we'll get it on the dyno where they will datalog it etc and get it straightened out. .. hopefully
plugs were goldish brown with a little white here and there but nothing to bad. like i said, wideband says one story, plugs a different one.
Correct, just clarifying though, timing is timing, a few degrees here and there, but 38 is not that bad. I was simply making an example to support my statement. I will agree with you on the fact that just because a motor can take more timing does not mean it can benefit from it. Which gets into dynamic CR, VE etc.
I do have to wonder if you are seeing a stratified AFR mix entering the cylinder... What kind of porting and manifold is he using? That would explain the WB/Plug disagreement.
Can you get a picture of the plugs? They may be okay... Goldish brown deposits are acceptable within a limit... As long as your not blistered you may be worrying about something that may not be worth worrying about. I would throw a new set in before you dyno and get a constructive look at them under controlled conditions before you go any further, which sounds like is where your headed.
GL
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
LOL yea thats what the tuner said at the track this weekend... throw a new set of plugs in and then we'll gauge. hehe unfortunately didnt have any so that dint happen lol but yea he will on the dyno for sure. he's running ngk tr6's if that interests you... (1 step colder than stock).
as for wb, well.. its an AEM UEGO. he has a custom built by him 4-1 long tube header, wb bung in collector. porting... well, head has 1mm os valves/seats cut to match/ports smoothed to match... then openings are basically just gasket matched with knife edged dividers.
picture of plugs... well, probly dyno day.
can you email me his tune, i wanna check it over. email is in the profile.
um, can i pull his tune without credits?
yes
Location: Montreal, Quebec
ok got the logs and tune... who wants em? i can forward to email...
Well at least gary and I.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
If I had HPTuners, I would...sorry Brad
I have no signiture
I looked over it,,, saw a little bit of knock, but the least I have seen on a LD9.
Without knowing the AFR's hard to say.
FU Tuning
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:I looked over it,,, saw a little bit of knock, but the least I have seen on a LD9.
Without knowing the AFR's hard to say.
least you've seen on an LD9? I just opened the first scan and right away i saw 2.8 on the first WOT pull, im lucky if i see .2-.3 on a WOT pull. I too want to see afr logs tho.
on my car im shooting for 13.3-13.4 afr WOT, not dialed perfect yet, and im also pushing a little more spark advance. I also run my HO(PE) and LO(PE) tables with the exact same spark.
Quote:
least you've seen on an LD9?
I have logged many factory LD9's and get what i call ghost knock. Sometimes up to 6 degree's. Ryan has also seen this as well. On my car I have gotten this and I have taken 5-10 degree's out and still get the same about of knock. I also have all stiff mounts.
Also not at the same time etc....
FU Tuning
