What to use to tune after forced induction - Tuning Forum

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What to use to tune after forced induction
Wednesday, September 14, 2011 8:13 PM
On my previous turbo setup, I was able to use larger injectors and an S-AFC along side a wideband to tune everything. Worked great actaully. That was on a 96 LD9.
The new setup is on a 2000 LD9. Larger turbo this time and built engine, so boost will be much higher this time. I'm thinking around 15-20psi and hope for somewhere in the 350-400whp range.
So with that, whats the best option for tuning it all? I assume most will say HP tuners and larger injectors. My hesitation with that is complete unfamiliarity. I've never used the program nor even seen it. Plus I don't seem to find any of the histograms. Reading the sticky posts about it, it seems intimidating and confusing. True?
My other though was using an additional injector controller. There is one I'm pretty familliar with and actually use on another turbo setup I have (not a j-body) The one I'm thinking of using goes off of both boost pressure and rpm and would be able to drive an additianal injector for each cylinder. When not in boost, the stock computer controls everything as usual.
So what do you recommend? Thoughts, comments, concerns?



12.6 @ 114.6 MPH


Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Wednesday, September 14, 2011 8:39 PM
I'm going to say HPTuners using the GM reflash for a LD9. Reason being is using a EIC does not give you timing control. HPT will.

This has been proven to 551whp.



FU Tuning



Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:48 AM
Matt, If you buy the credits I can bring over HPTuners, and flash the reflash on your car. That would be a good starting point.
Also, we could then data log if you have a wide-band, and have Ryan help with tuning. I'm not sure how much he charges though.


Hell if you just wanted to look at HPTuners, that would be fine.









Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:56 AM


Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:05 AM
Mike, that sounds pretty good. PM me you number.



12.6 @ 114.6 MPH

Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:14 AM
your*

Also, with HPT, what would be needed prior to use? Injectors and wideband of course... 3 bar MAP sensor?



12.6 @ 114.6 MPH

Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 11:51 AM
--Glowin Cavy-- wrote:

your*

Also, with HPT, what would be needed prior to use? Injectors and wideband of course... 3 bar MAP sensor?

I would start with the map sensor that comes in the standard M45 kit. I have the part number saved somewhere.





Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:31 PM
can only use the 2 bar map sensor and the gm reflash together, a 3 bar wont work/read properly due to voltage differences




Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:16 PM
For your goals a 2 bar map sensor will do fine. Make sure tyo have your fuel system ready, and a wideband installed.



FU Tuning



Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 1:57 PM
GM 2 BAR SENSOR 12580698

DO NOT BUY FROM LOCAL PARTS STORES!!!!!
I BOUGHT ONE FROM NAPA, CARQUEST, AUTOZONE, AND ADVANCED.
ALL WERE 1 BAR, ALL WERE WRONG!!!!!
Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:02 PM
Addicted to meth wrote:

For your goals a 2 bar map sensor will do fine. Make sure tyo have your fuel system ready, and a wideband installed.


I must have always misunderstood the rating of map sensors then. I always thought it was as follows:
1 bar sensor = 14.7psi absolute = 0psi (atmospheric pressure)
2 bar sensor = 29.4psi absolute = 14.7psi boost max
3 bar sensor = 44.1psi absolute = 29.4psi boost max




12.6 @ 114.6 MPH

Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:33 PM
--Glowin Cavy-- wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

For your goals a 2 bar map sensor will do fine. Make sure tyo have your fuel system ready, and a wideband installed.


I must have always misunderstood the rating of map sensors then. I always thought it was as follows:
1 bar sensor = 14.7psi absolute = 0psi (atmospheric pressure)
2 bar sensor = 29.4psi absolute = 14.7psi boost max
3 bar sensor = 44.1psi absolute = 29.4psi boost max


Yes you are correct.

That does not mean you can't go above 14.7psi on a 2bar map.

Fetter made 551whp (I believe that is the number) on a 2 bar map with the GM reflash.



FU Tuning




Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 7:39 PM
how does it read what boost level you are at above 14.7psi? How would it know to add more fuel at 20psi then at 16psi if its maxed out?



12.6 @ 114.6 MPH

Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 7:41 PM
If you go above 15 psi on a 2 bar map you have no resolution up there and it just uses the info in the 210 kpa column. Now if you put a 3 bar map on that car the 210 kpa column will be 315 kpa in real life.and 210 kpa will read as 140 kpa and sea level atmosphere will read as 70 kpa. Its real easy. You just lose some mid range resolution that you dont absolutely need to gain some resolution in a place where you have none at all.


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Thursday, September 15, 2011 7:45 PM
Addicted to meth wrote:

--Glowin Cavy-- wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

For your goals a 2 bar map sensor will do fine. Make sure tyo have your fuel system ready, and a wideband installed.


I must have always misunderstood the rating of map sensors then. I always thought it was as follows:
1 bar sensor = 14.7psi absolute = 0psi (atmospheric pressure)
2 bar sensor = 29.4psi absolute = 14.7psi boost max
3 bar sensor = 44.1psi absolute = 29.4psi boost max


Yes you are correct.

That does not mean you can't go above 14.7psi on a 2bar map.

Fetter made 551whp (I believe that is the number) on a 2 bar map with the GM reflash.


i made 54xwhp on the gm s/c reflash and 2 bar map as well

--Glowin Cavy-- wrote:

how does it read what boost level you are at above 14.7psi? How would it know to add more fuel at 20psi then at 16psi if its maxed out?


it just uses the 14.7 cell repeatedly as thats what it sees so that last value for that cell is tweaked to fuel for that extra 5.3 psi the car is seeing




Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Friday, September 16, 2011 1:41 AM
Do you have to get a GM reflash or can you just start with stock settings and tune from there with HPT? Getting the reflash just makes it a little easier right? A better starting point?


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Friday, September 16, 2011 4:08 AM
wanarace2345 wrote:

Do you have to get a GM reflash or can you just start with stock settings and tune from there with HPT? Getting the reflash just makes it a little easier right? A better starting point?


Our ECU's in stock form does nto read boost. Fueling is TPS x RPM. The GM reflahs for a LD9 is KPS x RPM, so it reads boost.



FU Tuning



Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Friday, September 16, 2011 9:52 PM
wanarace2345 wrote:

Do you have to get a GM reflash or can you just start with stock settings and tune from there with HPT? Getting the reflash just makes it a little easier right? A better starting point?


if you have a 00-02 or even rewired a pre 00 to the pcm/bcm setup you can flash your car to the gm s/c reflash so the car reads boost up to 14.7psi and then you start your tuning from there




Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 4:30 PM
I have been through so many different threads trying to find answers for my specific car. My wife has to kick me off the computer almost every night as I'm trying to learn and weed out good info from bad. I have a 96 Z24 LD9. I am determined to use HPT, so I got a 98 ecu and a 98 LD9 wiring harness. Will someone that knows what they're talking about please help me (and probably some other people) with what I need to do to effiently run 12-14 psi on a built 96 LD9 Cav? I'll do whatever I need to do, but I need a little more direction is all. Reflash? MAP sensor? Use 00+ harness?


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 5:55 PM
wanarace2345 wrote:

I have been through so many different threads trying to find answers for my specific car. My wife has to kick me off the computer almost every night as I'm trying to learn and weed out good info from bad. I have a 96 Z24 LD9. I am determined to use HPT, so I got a 98 ecu and a 98 LD9 wiring harness. Will someone that knows what they're talking about please help me (and probably some other people) with what I need to do to effiently run 12-14 psi on a built 96 LD9 Cav? I'll do whatever I need to do, but I need a little more direction is all. Reflash? MAP sensor? Use 00+ harness?


give ryan qwkln2 thats doing the hpt tuning sticky a shout, he can help ya out




Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 6:30 PM
Thanks LAFNGAS. I shot him a PM. One day I hope to be giving the advice and personal experiences, but until then I need help lol.


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 6:59 PM
Some of the 97 ecus were speed density units(same type as gm relash). They are setup for a 1 bar tho and lack a table in hptuners that slightly aids in the tuning process. you'll need to scale it fcor a 2bar. Your best bet is to reflash your 98 withb one of the 97 files and get an fmu and use hptuners to tune from there.





Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 8:28 PM
Zs Z wrote:

Some of the 97 ecus were speed density units(same type as gm relash). They are setup for a 1 bar tho and lack a table in hptuners that slightly aids in the tuning process. you'll need to scale it fcor a 2bar. Your best bet is to reflash your 98 withb one of the 97 files and get an fmu and use hptuners to tune from there.


You can't rescale the VE files in our ECU.

But you can run a 2 bar map, but truly I would stay with the 1 bar map.

My experience has been 50/50 with the 97 Speed Density file. Had one work great and another not as good.



FU Tuning



Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 8:39 PM
Maybe I'll just find a cliff that's 1/4 mile long, and roll my car off and time it to see what it ran and be done with it. That's how I feel about it some days, lol.


2004 Cavalier Sedan
Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 8:56 PM
wanarace2345 wrote:

Maybe I'll just find a cliff that's 1/4 mile long, and roll my car off and time it to see what it ran and be done with it. That's how I feel about it some days, lol.


If it was me I would run the ECU you have with a FMU and fine tune with HPT.



FU Tuning



Re: What to use to tune after forced induction
Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:13 PM
So I'll keep the 1 bar map and don't get a gm reflash correct? And as you said, use a FMU with HPT.


2004 Cavalier Sedan
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