E85 Blend - Page 3 - Tuning Forum

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Re: E85 Blend
Friday, November 18, 2011 6:09 AM
Quote:

With all due repect


Whats with that BS?



FU Tuning




Re: E85 Blend
Friday, November 18, 2011 6:25 AM
Addicted to meth wrote:

Quote:

With all due repect


Whats with that BS?
It worked for Ricky Bobby...





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: E85 Blend
Friday, November 18, 2011 8:37 AM
You smell a delicious crispy smell after the race, its not your tail pipe, its a little bit of shaaake, and bake. shake and bake.



Re: E85 Blend
Friday, November 18, 2011 5:03 PM
CaliforniaDomestics wrote:


Evofire in all reality given what you are currently working with, your best solution to the issue you are having with the least amount of hassle and the least amount of cost long term is to just run methanol injection. It will help to suppress that knock. Are you actually data logging the knock? Is it just a blip of knock? If so that is not uncommon especially with some of the scenarios you described. The GM reflash is rather conservative in regard to the knock retard. After the ECU pulls max 8* of timing does the knock retard go away as you power through it? Typically it will make the quick retard to extinguish any knock and then jump right back to normal timing once the knock dissipates (usually pretty instant). If it is maintaining knock retard then there is more to be investigated. The fact you mentioned it was pulling around 3* I suspect it is doing essentially preventive knock suppression per se upon rapid throttle changes (I would need to data log). The ECU is quick but not always instantaneous to make adjustments to your foot haha. Of course given your setup you will not be able to take full advantage of methanol use but it will get you through any little bumps you may be getting with your current setup. Your engine mods are really not that extensive and I question the severity of the knock you are seeing. If you are using the Aeroforce gauges remember there is a slight delay in the refresh rate on those particular guages. Meaning if the knock is going away right away its actually going away even faster than the gauges are indicating. I am by no stretch of the imagination advocating that knock is not a problem regardless of the level but it also depends on what exactly is causing the reading and when to determine if it should raise alarm. In your case I suspect your fine and I agree stop putting E85 in your tank.


I only put 1.2 gallons of E85 in the tank as a test. No more will ever go in.

To answer you Alan. I am using the Torque app on my phone. I know its not instant, but its a pretty good "idea giver". When ever I go from cruising (65-70ish mhp) to WOT in any gear EXCEPT 5th, or if I down@!#$ into WOT, I get and instant 8* KR, and then it drops about .5*-1* at a time until it goes back to 0 as I pull through it. My first thought after reading before I posted was that it was the ECU doing preventative KR, or of it was ghost knock. However after driving it more and more, I think it might actually be real knock, but only 2-3*, but the computer is still pulling 8* and compensating accordingly after that. Do you have stuff to data log with?




Re: E85 Blend
Friday, November 18, 2011 7:17 PM
Quote:


To answer you Alan. I am using the Torque app on my phone. I know its not instant, but its a pretty good "idea giver". When ever I go from cruising (65-70ish mhp) to WOT in any gear EXCEPT 5th, or if I down@!#$ into WOT, I get and instant 8* KR, and then it drops about .5*-1* at a time until it goes back to 0 as I pull through it. My first thought after reading before I posted was that it was the ECU doing preventative KR, or of it was ghost knock. However after driving it more and more, I think it might actually be real knock, but only 2-3*, but the computer is still pulling 8* and compensating accordingly after that. Do you have stuff to data log with?


Are you stabing the peddle, or rolling into the pedal and getting those results?



FU Tuning



Re: E85 Blend
Friday, November 18, 2011 7:19 PM
if i roll into it i get nothing or 1-2*....if i floor it i get 8* instant....



Re: E85 Blend
Saturday, November 19, 2011 12:13 AM
If its doing what I think it is under the conditions you are describing it sounds pretty normal. When you hammer on the throttle instantly especially during a hard downshift it is not uncommon to get a quick blip of KR. I would need to replicate the conditions myself to really know what is occurring. Yes I can monitor KR (data log). In your case there isn't much you can do because of the reflash but if it is doing what I think it is you would just be chasing your tail trying to stop it from happening. Instant boost spikes and a blast of fuel causes this issue. It just takes a split second for the ECU to catch up to instant extreme load conditions. Now if you are powering through your RPM and KR begins to occur anywhere beyond the initial downshift or instant WOT, then you will want to investigate further because this is likely real knock at that point.



ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician

Re: E85 Blend
Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:45 AM
WAIT A MINUTE... i can run E85 on a jbody pcm??? then why have I been @!#$ around with water/meth injection??

"My car starts itself, parks itself and autotunes"



Re: E85 Blend
Saturday, November 19, 2011 5:30 AM
What I have seen from our ECU it will take a good second or 2 for it to go from closed loop to open loop. You could be WOT for a good few hundred RPM's or so, before this happens. So Stabbing it you are giving it boost, fuel etc.. all at once while still at a closed loop commanded AFR, so getting some knock is understandable (not saying it is good), just understandable.



FU Tuning



Re: E85 Blend
Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:05 AM
Addicted to meth wrote:

What I have seen from our ECU it will take a good second or 2 for it to go from closed loop to open loop. You could be WOT for a good few hundred RPM's or so, before this happens. So Stabbing it you are giving it boost, fuel etc.. all at once while still at a closed loop commanded AFR, so getting some knock is understandable (not saying it is good), just understandable.


Yep essentially the ECU does not access the PE tables immediately unless you have done things such as I have in HPT but in your case Chris this is not an option for the time being with the reflash. Even accessing the PE tables immediately it is still not uncommon to see KR within the first second or so of any extreme load condition i.e. immediate WOT and full boost. Just keep in mind this is assuming the KR is rapidly rectified after such condition occurs. If it occurs afterward or remains to pull timing then there is something happening that will again require further investigation.



ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician

Re: E85 Blend
Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:45 AM
Quote:

Yep essentially the ECU does not access the PE tables immediately unless you have done things such as I have in HPT


Are you referring to adjusting the TPS and RPM delays for PE?

I have these adjusted as well, but find the ECU is still a little slow switching when you stab it.



FU Tuning




Re: E85 Blend
Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:49 PM
Yes that is part of what you can do to increase the speed at which it will switch to the PE tables. Also just as you have mentioned there is still a slight delay. My PE tables and regular old closed loop tables closely mirror each other so even with the switch it isn't a whole lot of a transition taking place.



ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician

Re: E85 Blend
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:24 AM
so, this delay... does it get eliminated with a standalone?



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Re: E85 Blend
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:30 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

so, this delay... does it get eliminated with a standalone?


The standalone I've delt with dont even work with a PE mode. Though in theory if you had fuel maps for both PE and closed loop they would be exactly the same unless you were using injector pulse width and not VE with a commanded afr table.


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Re: E85 Blend
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:07 AM
SLO CAV (autocrossing dude) wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

SLO CAV (autocrossing dude) wrote:

You'll get higher octane from the race gas as well because octane boosters are a joke really. Only thing is with the race gas your cat and o2 sensors will hate you later down the road.


octane boosters being a joke is a joke.


How so? If you had 93 octane in the tank and toss a bottle on top of that what would the octane end up being maybe 94.5?

That's a fact, it's about a 1-2points higher octane rating from the bottle(not bad for under $5). If you want a very noticeable octane rating, just buy the higher octane fuel.



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Re: E85 Blend
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:17 AM
Mr.Goodwrench-G.T. wrote:

SLO CAV (autocrossing dude) wrote:

Addicted to meth wrote:

SLO CAV (autocrossing dude) wrote:

You'll get higher octane from the race gas as well because octane boosters are a joke really. Only thing is with the race gas your cat and o2 sensors will hate you later down the road.


octane boosters being a joke is a joke.


How so? If you had 93 octane in the tank and toss a bottle on top of that what would the octane end up being maybe 94.5?

That's a fact, it's about a 1-2points higher octane rating from the bottle(not bad for under $5). If you want a very noticeable octane rating, just buy the higher octane fuel.


Yep.. If was me I'd add maybe 3-4 gallons of race gas and be done.... Still won't be real high octane level but better than octane "boosters"



Re: E85 Blend
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:30 AM
pot stirring time.

When i first made this post i did research for 3-4 days, and came upon and article about octane boosting. I cant find it right now but think i have it saved on my comp at home. The article said that when octance boosters claim to raise octane 2-3 or 4-5 or whatever points, that it does not mean it will take your gas from 91 to 94. it means it will take your gas from 91 to 91.4....just food for though...ill search real fast and see if i can find it again.



Re: E85 Blend
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:35 AM
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t458390-do_quot_octane_boosters_quot_work_.html

just something quick i found....ill search more later.



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