The narrowband is not more accurate number one it works on 0.1 to 0.9 volts and switches, does not monitor AFR, the AFR sensor works on a much broader platform and does see AFR instead of oxygen. This would be described in the nearst cell. number 2 the switching or sampling rate of a narrowband is 1 time per second, the sampling rate of a 5 wire afr, say a 24303 is 136 milliseconds.
The narrow band operates between 14.2 and 15 afr, and between 0.1 and 0.9 volts therefore if the resolution was evenly distributed over that range its resolution is 1afr/volt. It is of choose not evenly distributed and is bunched up close to 14.7. Now if you take a wide band controller output (which is what most of us will ever see) would be from 10 to 20 afr and from 0 to 5 volts, which results in 0.5 afr/volt, half the resolution as a narrow band. Since both signals are analog they will be entering the computer through a dac and thus the resolution becomes the accuracy. I'd we were dealing with a strictly analog system I would not be able to make the direct connection between accuracy and resolution.
now on to speed, if the narrow band only refreshes one a second why are the fuel trims able to update faster than that? And why would one use the instantaneous speed on their lc1 when using the wide band to stimulate a narrow band, while using the 1/12 or 1/6 a second interpolation setting when using the wideband output? Simple the narrow band update the computer as fast as the dac can process it and a fast as the computer can poll it because its an analog sensor. We be limited by the speed of or pcm.
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Don't doubt Leafy.... He has tuned, what... 4 cars now?
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Ya , I guess he has just confused me Ryan. I teach nationally about our o2 sensors. I think he is just missing the point lol...
jason norwood wrote:Ya , I guess he has just confused me Ryan. I teach nationally about our o2 sensors. I think he is just missing the point lol...
Your not the only one he has confused.. I personally am not sure if even he believes half the sh!t that comes out of his mouth.... I love it when he tries to "school the teacher".... I could care less what he reallty thinks, but I don't want people taking his "almighty word" as gospel.....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Lol.. Right I know. Oh well atleast I am not the only one that thinks this. Was hard to even try to understand as the sentances did not make sense.
jason norwood wrote:Lol.. Right I know. Oh well atleast I am not the only one that thinks this. Was hard to even try to understand as the sentances did not make sense.
I think that is what he wants. You to not understand what he is saying, so you can't question the word of GOD himself.
FU Tuning
Lol... almost seems like it. I showed it to our Japaneese O2 engineer and he was lauging! I think that this is the case!!! WTF!!
Some people know everything about everything and its brother nothing. haha
QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:novaracer wrote:And i understand why and how to disable closed loop to get better res during tuning. Still post your cfg.
Sounds more like lazyness, not like not having the time... Gotta crawl before you walk, gotta walk before you run.... Like it not about the hand outs.... Its about learning.....
lazy i guess you could say that i have been working 12/7 more like burned out. when i get burned out my brain dosent work at all i just draw a blank lol. in the morning i will put my wide band on and hook up the laptop and try my cfg, i plan on giving this car to my son next fall for his first car. went to 3 dealers today looking for a sonic turbo to test drive not a one out here.
see ya!
I have drove one, my work has one, not bad I guess.
novaracer wrote:QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:novaracer wrote:And i understand why and how to disable closed loop to get better res during tuning. Still post your cfg.
Sounds more like lazyness, not like not having the time... Gotta crawl before you walk, gotta walk before you run.... Like it not about the hand outs.... Its about learning.....
lazy i guess you could say that i have been working 12/7 more like burned out. when i get burned out my brain dosent work at all i just draw a blank lol. in the morning i will put my wide band on and hook up the laptop and try my cfg, i plan on giving this car to my son next fall for his first car. went to 3 dealers today looking for a sonic turbo to test drive not a one out here.
GM just recalled them.... Guess some of them left the factory with out brake pads!
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
failpads, your stopping wrong.
Ok i tried my histograms i made that are the same as the tables in the editor but when i made my wide band it showed up like it was going to work but when i hit the connect icon it says unspported. Wtf i used th pid in the righthand corner and then the table under i did ve high rpm. Any ideas?
see ya!
Everythingh has to be entered in the primary table also, or otherwise its not being logged.
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Yep this is where I went wrong when I was starting to learn HP Tuners.. lol
is the primary table under the x-header and y-header ? my head is spinning
see ya!
omg i feel so stupid i found it lol the primary table is next to the gauges display.
see ya!
ok now i have the wide band on single fire, high rpm, coastdown,and idle. i have to see if it works and thanks guys i will have more questions to come.
see ya!
Did this end up working out?
hell no my lm-2 quit again and got smashed by 2lb brass hammer lol getting a new dynojet wideband asap. innovate lm-2 sucks i got a early modle maybe mine was just bad from the beginning. but i did do the ltft for fuel trims but no pe tuning because the wideband.
see ya!
LM2? like the hand held? If you are going to spend serious money on a wideband like that I suggest one that uses the NGK sensor it is more accurate than the bosch sensor that typical widebands use (bosch is only accurate to 5% where the NGK is accurate to 0.1% irrc).
1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by:
Kronos Performance
WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
WPI SAE Risk and Sustainability Management Officer
Leafy,
How do I say this with out giving it away since I work for the company........ NTK's o2 sensor is not neccisarily more accurate...... the AFX is more accurate than the old LM-2. However the NTK is faster in its response time and this has to do with the nearst cell that we have in the sensor. I f you are interested in purchasing the AFX its on sale at one of our distributors sites at 259.00 ngk.com.
Widebands are hard to compare, I for example know what to look for in the sensor technology, and the controller that makes it a good unit. Most will just read online forums but cannot tell you why a particular system is better. At NGK we have our dyno cells fitted with the AFX kits in the header pipes, usually about 20 o2 sensors per downpipe or manifold. Half are NTK AFX kits and the other half use a lab grade AFR machine locally by a company called Horriba. A typical Horriba machine costs in the neighborhood of 50-60k. This machine also uses a lab grade version of our 5 wire wideband. Seeing the logging and systems owrking next to each other I can tell you than the AFX is only ever off by a tenth of an AFR, this could be placement of the o2 sensor in the pipe or a number of things... I have also seen the competitors brands go against the Horriba and they were not as accurate.
You have to realize that NTK is and started off as a ceramic company, and did very well in a diverse range of ceramic products, which is why we excelled in the OEM buisness as well as the aftermarket buisness, the core of the o2 sensor relies on technology of the element of the o2 sensor which heavily relies on the ceramic compound or quality of the detection cell otherwise known as the vs detection cell and the ip cell.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
