Supercharger pressure is directly linked to engine rpm, so the trick is to set the PE enable parameters so PE begins to add fuel when 100 kPa is reached, then keep calling for richer and richer PE fuel as rpm (and boost) increases. In some cals you can also add negative spark values in the PE spark tables to retard timing as engine rpm increases. Turbo stuff is more difficult because boost is caused by engine load and exhaust temp and is not directly tied to RPM.
-->Slow

worst case, I gank Speeds MSD... But I think Ill be fine.

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Makes sense. I think i read this in the supercharger v turbocharger argument threads.

I'm working on a bin for boosted applications based upon load / rpm. Seeing as the stock computer doesn't read EGT's yet, we really can't tune for EGT's. I'm working on a tuning guide and some boosted base bin's so that this becomes easier to do.

I have considered setting up a wideband tune, as our pcm's can ready 0-5v and are just calibrated for 0-1v.

slowolej wrote:Supercharger pressure is directly linked to engine rpm, so the trick is to set the PE enable parameters so PE begins to add fuel when 100 kPa is reached, then keep calling for richer and richer PE fuel as rpm (and boost) increases. In some cals you can also add negative spark values in the PE spark tables to retard timing as engine rpm increases. Turbo stuff is more difficult because boost is caused by engine load and exhaust temp and is not directly tied to RPM.
-->Slow

REALLY?



man, guess I really need to drop that fuel tank and get the reacetronix pump in.

Really hope I dont need larger fuel line though....


Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

As far as O2, I think I've said that you can change the entire fuel management strategy if you use a WBO2. No need to bounce rrich/lean anymore, just select the target AFR and increase / decrease fuel trims until WB readings indicate correct AFR. There may be unused 0-5V inputs available at the A/D converter. And if you're working at the code level, consider trying to use EGT input as a tuning parameter.

Total over my head..... other then tuning.... I have yet to get in to the "hex" of it.

NOW If something like that would be made available..... one may be great full!


Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

I am working at the code level, but without my fully built test bench, its a game of stab the pcm and see how it bleeds.

I did figure out how to lock the injectors open, but i think that was due to a crashed codebase.

There are several inputs available on the processor that GM never used in this PCM, we may have to do some custom circuitry, that I really need a electronics genuis with background in this pcm's processor to take a look at. I also should mention there are several output channels available too.. I have considered sequential injection, alco/meth injection, boost control etc..

As for hex, what i can give you is, a partially translated disassembly along with the original hex bins, the xdf's and tuner cat's definition files. I would love nothing more than to have the crowd take over where i left off. I was once considering going profit with this, but after all the help that was donated, I would rather go public domain, and watch this pcm turn into a valuable pcm. It has the potential to be just as versitile as a megasquirt, with the right bin code. And since you can buy them at any junk yard for 10-50 dollars, I'd say this one could become a poor man's tuning wet dream.

Hardware to tune it is cheap, it uses the odb2 GM cable from moates.net, as well as the GM adapter kit. You can use an ostrich for it, but it works better on autoprom with bluetooth enabled. I even have been prototyping pcm casings for it. Waterproofing is important, my main concern is keeping the autoprom sealed up. It comes unsealed from moates.

Just so everyone knows, moates.net autoprom is 100% compatible with the 95 pcm, as well as the 90-94 stuff. On the 95 which is what this project has entailed, in order to use ALDL functions currently you have to turn the ignition to the on position, don't start the car, start the aldl in tuner pro, it will increment the error counter fast, thats how you know its connecting, then turn the ignition to the off position and back to on. If you did it right, it puts the pcm into some kind of diag loop. You'll lose your dash except for speedometer, but you'll gain direct aldl access.

I haven't found the aldl data subroutine yet, so we can't substitute sensor data yet, but I am really close. I think that's what I may finally need to crack this puppy wide open.

GM got smart in 95, the code is drastically different than the previous years code, and way more complicated. There is some odb2 emissions enabled in the code, even though its odb1.5.

Other than that, I'll be looking into getting everything uploaded to a file share site. I just don't have much time to dig into it anymore, and would love for the community to take over.

CJ

Ok i've had a chance to look at the mantapart bin.

It is a $36 mask bin, using my beta3.xdf's i can see it with no issues.

It looks like they smoothed out a lot of the maps, richened up the VE under boost, and modified injector pulse width and base pulse constant along with a bunch of other changes.

The good news is, we can edit the mantapart bin using tunerpro.

Does anyone have any experience with the mantapart bin under boost?

It looks like a pretty decent edit. Closer than anything i've built yet.

Ya,

Lean as @!#$ at 6PSI............. (17.9-LEAN AFR)


All I ended up doing is taking cavfan's bin he gave me for my NA W41, richened up PE, and take away spark at 95 KPA and above.

I also ended up throwing on a Jackson racing adjustable FMU.....


@!#$ thing RIPS.

I installed my racetronx pump (get this @!#$! the damn 95 tank has BAFFLES in it, along with the siphon fuel pump module... needless to say I used my 95 tank and not the 02 tank I had... along with the ohm's of the sending unit would not work..... ) It holds a nice 11.5-12.1 AFR with 36# injectors..... I may try throwing the 52# one in though...


but for now, I am happy.


Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Hey Chris,

Wanna send me what your using for a bin? I'm interested in how you have it setup and am working on a how-to tune with odb 1.5 guide.

You might be anxious to know i am really close to figuring out how to turning off closed loop mode using the actual switch level code vs adjusting variables.

I found the code to turn off diagnostics of the EVAP, though in reality our cars seem to run better with emissions in place.

Except EGR, which mantapart figured out how to turn off.

That bin was for a 2.3............no EGR....

Ill send you me bin I am running with the FMU tonight....

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Taetsch, have you made any more progress with your tune and hows the car running??



Time to get it going again.....

I've had some luck with more decrypts.

Wideband is going to be really hard. The fuel tables are calculated based upon VE and not target AFR..

If anyone out there knows hex and assembly and wants to give this ago that would be great. What we need to do at this point i think is identify all of the i/o registers and chart this pcm so we can start a custom program from scratch.

there is tuning software and programs for our 95 cars http://westers_garage.eidnet.org/ has it its not cheap 1400 bucks but it comes with a laptop already programed with the software
this is the only tuning available thats the most complete system available for our cars (trust me ive looked every friken place )

but the cheapest and easiest would be to instal a 97 ecu and get hp tuners
or do the best thing for ur car and go with a stand alone ems

also if ur close to the texas area exatorq can tune our pcm's

i have a 95 cavalier and have been looking as long as u guys to tune my car i cant do any internal mods until i get my pcm tuned or ill blow my engine to shiat

and in the end of all my searching ive found this solution to be the easiest and less headach involved

go to a wrecker yard get the pcm from a 97 car same model as yours for 100$ then get hp tuners 600$
or find someone that already has it and use theres for like 100$ or if ur friends with em itl be free

geting our pcm retuned/ reflashed will cost u 300-400$ each time u want it done

but if u wanna go best bang for ur buck it wont be cheap get a stand alone ems they usually run about 900 up to 1500 bucks

remember our cars were built as econoboxes and made for socer moms so sometimes the best solution is the easiest trying to make a custom program or tuneable ems for our cars unless your a electrical enginer with data tuning software master degree and advanced technology with computer programing i wont even look to you to put ur crap in my car once again there are reason why half the shiat out there costs money and finding a cheap way into it will evedentily in the end more than likely @!#$ our cars





if it start the next day it can be driven harder

HILARIOUS!!!!

Have you even read any of this post? No you definitely haven't "looked every friken place".
How about readng this one too: http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=64&i=7544&t=7544

Everything is already available from Moates and Tunercat. All for well under $500.

Your shop there seems to completely know that too...
as everything in the website's pictures is Moates equipment (most with the covers removed) and the software is Tuner cat with the headline name changed. All he is doing is renaming and repackaging someone else products and they are already available from the creators for far less.

Swapping a 97 PCM into a 95 is very difficult. While anything can be cheated for minimum functionality, to make it "right" would also include needing the donor car's harnesses, fuel tank and engine to get all the sensors the 97 PCM is designed to run on.

95gtzspec2 wrote:but if u wanna go best bang for ur buck it wont be cheap get a stand alone ems they usually run about 900 up to 1500 bucks

remember our cars were built as econoboxes and made for socer moms so sometimes the best solution is the easiest trying to make a custom program or tuneable ems for our cars unless your a electrical enginer with data tuning software master degree and advanced technology with computer programing i wont even look to you to put ur crap in my car once again there are reason why half the shiat out there costs money and finding a cheap way into it will evedentily in the end more than likely @!#$ our cars

Wow for that statement. The level of just-plain-obvious almost matches the level of utter BS.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:52 PM

sig not found

First of all, can re delete this post, someone doesn't know the rules when posting.
Second, not a flame thread, tho this post really is a pitch for a sale.
Third: 95gtzspec2, swapping a 97 ecu requires odb2 sensor swaps and a whole mess of work. Why do that when "I" among the rest of the Jbodiers have spent years decrypting the 95 pcm so that it is EASY to use.

We have a fully tunable solution out of the box, for under $249 if you use separate hardware and for $399 if you go autoprom from moates.
The software is free "TUNERPRO" or $39 bucks "TUNERPRO RT" and that is mostly donation to the author who has put in twice as many years as we have.

If you would like help with your 95 PCM and in fact being able to customize it far beyond the bolt on solution from that website, we'd be happy to teach you the finer points of programming your car.

As for a complete system, the most complete system is one already installed by the factory, which we have full control over.

Thanks for your opinion though.

95gtzspec2 wrote:there is tuning software and programs for our 95 cars http://westers_garage.eidnet.org/ has it its not cheap 1400 bucks but it comes with a laptop already programed with the software
this is the only tuning available thats the most complete system available for our cars (trust me ive looked every friken place )

but the cheapest and easiest would be to instal a 97 ecu and get hp tuners
or do the best thing for ur car and go with a stand alone ems

also if ur close to the texas area exatorq can tune our pcm's

i have a 95 cavalier and have been looking as long as u guys to tune my car i cant do any internal mods until i get my pcm tuned or ill blow my engine to shiat

and in the end of all my searching ive found this solution to be the easiest and less headach involved

go to a wrecker yard get the pcm from a 97 car same model as yours for 100$ then get hp tuners 600$
or find someone that already has it and use theres for like 100$ or if ur friends with em itl be free

geting our pcm retuned/ reflashed will cost u 300-400$ each time u want it done

but if u wanna go best bang for ur buck it wont be cheap get a stand alone ems they usually run about 900 up to 1500 bucks

remember our cars were built as econoboxes and made for socer moms so sometimes the best solution is the easiest trying to make a custom program or tuneable ems for our cars unless your a electrical enginer with data tuning software master degree and advanced technology with computer programing i wont even look to you to put ur crap in my car once again there are reason why half the shiat out there costs money and finding a cheap way into it will evedentily in the end more than likely @!#$ our cars

So, I have a "hack" 2 bar going in my 95 Now...... Bacicaly I needed to "learn" WTF Tod ment when he told Brian "your going to have to find out your own base injector constant...".

I have learned that in VE you CAN NOT go over 100 percent.... and when you put larger injectors in, you dont make the constant smaller to make up for the added fuel, but do just the opposite, and raise it. Telling the PCM how "Large" the Engine is.... and take away fuel were it is not needed.

Now I say "hack" because of this, First I have only made 4 burns so far, and second, I am still using the FMU to help with fuel, though it is turned down.

I took Tod's two bar EEPROM that he gave Brian and made most of the timing above 50 KPA (now 100 KPA, fake 2 bar and all...) and moved timing to around 12-14*..

SO far so good.. though with time, I'm going to ditch the FMU, as I HOPE the 550CC injectors and racetronix pump with be enough.


I will keep posted, and if I find out how to post my program on here I will, other wise Ill send it to Chris and he can.

Again, I'm learning here, so Ill more then likely stumble though it, but so far, it pulls away from my GTO on 8 lbs....That and the engine was built for NA kinda, flat top pistons, W41.14.6 NA.....at least I gaped the rings for boost...


Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Awesome!!! This is the kind of stuff I like to hear.

Injector constant's are a pain, my XDF's I have been working on should be close, but if anyone wants to contribute a stock # vs injector size I can adjust the xdf to properly compensate for it so in the future all you have to do is put in the CC and it will work properly.

Hope that helps.

BTW what fpr are you running, you will need to have one that is after market, as the stock FPR is easily overrun by any upgraded fuel pump.
Also our fuel lines may not have enough capacity or flow to sustain those 550's, look into your flow rates just to be sure.

C Smyth wrote:Also our fuel lines may not have enough capacity or flow to sustain those 550's, look into your flow rates just to be sure.

I have regularly run 600+hp on 3/8" fuel lines at 50psi.

Our lines are not an issue.


sig not found

Like Todd said, the LS7 has 3/8 fuel lines, I took a gamble, as per what everyone here said, using my stock lines and only the racetronix pump, but it works Great so far.

Once I get some real time to tune it (like a day, just bought a damn house {@!#$ that's a lot of paper work!}) I'm ditching the FMU, and making the two bar smother, and closer to the AFR I want when idling, cruising, and under load\boost, 14.6, 14.5, 11.6-11.9 respectfully.


I think right now, with the FMU, and the 550 injectors, and Todd's Two bar he gave Brian, my injector constant is around 110.. I think. lowered idle and lower VE so my WB with out the Narrow band hooked up was around 13.8 and went from there. Car runs great!. Now have to install my Turbo gasket, DP gasket, and WG gasket.. (ya, didn't use them at first, didn't know if it would be worth it.)

But Given time, I'm sure Brian will post some Vids of it being tuned out at Dugans house.


Chris



'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

Diched the FMU!

Got it running ... sorta good, with 550 injectors my "injector size" is at 130..... I had to turn down VE alot... think i need to try making the size 120 or so...(overly rich)

it runs great, but I would LOVE to have a way to make it go in to closed loop\PE when ever I enter boost (in this case about 47 KPA)..


ya ya ya, I need more time tuning.... (this is all trial and error, no emulator, no data logging extra)

I will stay in contact with late the breaking.


Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

I'll have to take a look at the formula used to calculate injector size and get you an updated XDF. I wanted to set injector size by CC vs LBH.
In a boosted application VE can go over 100 but i'm not so convinced our equation that generates that table is true VE yet. It was a port from the 90's mask's that were generally in use.

As for your transition to PE, i believe you can set that in the PE tables. I'll take a closer look. Perhaps that could be custom code for you.

Do you have an autoprom? If so use data logging and emulation, its a way better method of tuning with our cars.

Chris

When ever I put anything over 99 in the cell, and hit "save" it just went to 99.7........

I am using a BURN1 And Tuner pro..... thats it.

Next weekend I will mess around with it more.. but for having less then 3 hours total time messing with it so far.. Im very happy at how great it feels\drives.

Have not messed with PE from what Todd had it at.....

Ill Email the tune some time tonight.

Chris




'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08

hey whats up guys, i finally got my car (well me and brandon) running close to pretty good, it took a lot of datalogging and emailing bin files back and forth, but brandon(cavfan1) was able to write a whole tune for my car over the internet never drove it or even seen it and he came up with a better tune than the guy who had my car for a month at the dyno shop, we had to take a break for a while on the tuning because i was having a problem that i couldnt figure out, my wastegate and bov were not working, turns out the shop who installed the turbo used a plastic vacuum t right over the turbo manifold and the heat melted it lol but everything is back to normal now, we started with a completely stock bin and went from there, I am also using the racetronix fuel pump,440cc inj, no fmu, the ostrich 2.0, burn2, and tuner pro rt for datalogging. only problem now is that since the wastegate wasnt working and i was getting more boost than i was supposed to be getting i kept going lean and couldnt figure out why (didnt have the boost gauge installed yet) but when i did install it i found out it was getting up to 17psi, and we kept tuning to try to get enough fuel for that not know that the boost was that high,i dont have a 2 bar map either. so now at wot it runs pretty rich like 9.5 afr but that shouldnt take long to fix, but being able to datalog makes it a lot easier to tune the 95, lol i just wish i didnt have to open the ecu everytime to put the new burn in, thinking about getting that bluetooth thing moates has.

this is all the things i had to buy to be able to tune

Ostrich 2.0 emulator
burn 2 chip burner
aldl cables(used to datalog)
2 blank chips
G1 adapter(needed to bypass the stock chip without removing it)
S1 adapter(makes changing chips a lot easier)
memcal header(to read the stock memcal(not needed if u already have the stock bin)
bin file from tunercat(waste of money)
tuner pro rt(free but give the guy the donation its more than worth it)
tunercat rt(didnt buy this)
the first three could have been avoided by buying the autoprom

i may have forgotten something but those are the basics




if it can't win a race it better win a show

You could have saved a lot of money going autoprom.

Plus it as support for the bluetooth adapter.

With the Ostrich you wont have to swap chips at all, the way i set up the autoprom was to plumb in a header for the cable into the pcm case, and just connect up like it is just another plug.

And with the ostrech you can get an extended usb cable and run it from the pcm to the cab, thats what I did.