pre 00 ld9 m45 tune - Tuning Forum

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pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:33 PM
I been trying to tune my car here and there for 2 1/2 years, I've been running a fake 2 bar open loop, it runs ok but its rich as @!#$. I'm done, i hate our computers with hp tuners. Luckily i didn't blowup my car, and I'm just trying to clean up VE tables. Today I did 5 different logs and adjustments and i keep going up and down not getting the car to run right. I am logging in closed loop using short and long fuel trims. It sucks. In open loop the computer does really crazy things.Right now I just want a tune to slap in and enjoy my car.

Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:19 PM
My best friend has a 99 auto with the M45. He has been running that was for almost 5 years. Runs great in closed loop.

My first guess is your tuning using the fuel trims. I have never done that. I always use a wideband.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 12, 2012 4:37 AM
John...so is is only in closed loop. 100% of the time?





Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 12, 2012 6:41 AM
-MD- Enforcer wrote:

John...so is is only in closed loop. 100% of the time?


Remember closed loop is normal operation, using the primary O2 sensor to control and shoot for 14:7:1. Open loop is PE mode.

Yes his car runs in Closed loop in normal driving like it should from the factory. Once he goes WOT it goes to Open Loop and runs off the tune.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 12, 2012 7:16 AM
Yeah john I was thinking 100% backwards.

How does it run in some boost say at 1/2 throttle?







Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 12, 2012 7:29 AM
-MD- Enforcer wrote:

Yeah john I was thinking 100% backwards.

How does it run in some boost say at 1/2 throttle?


Really not bad.

I will be honest I usually tell people if your going to go half throttle or more, then go all the way.

Our VE file goes from 50% TPS to 75%, and then 100%. You have much more columns below 50%.

Also using the injector offset (not the correct name for the file, but not in HPT right now), you can have the car adding fuel in boost (just not based on RPM).

Again my friend daily drove his car for 4 years or so with the charger. His gas mileage was good and car was dependable. Only thing we do not know is the power it is making.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Friday, November 16, 2012 10:59 AM
Spook 427 wrote:

I been trying to tune my car here and there for 2 1/2 years, I've been running a fake 2 bar open loop, it runs ok but its rich as @!#$. I'm done, i hate our computers with hp tuners. Luckily i didn't blowup my car, and I'm just trying to clean up VE tables. Today I did 5 different logs and adjustments and i keep going up and down not getting the car to run right. I am logging in closed loop using short and long fuel trims. It sucks. In open loop the computer does really crazy things.Right now I just want a tune to slap in and enjoy my car.


Your problem starts and ends with the fake 2 bar...

Put the 1 bar sensor back in and re-tune the car. The supercharger is linear so it's very easy to tune even without the proper 2 bar MAP reading.

Took me about 3 hours to tune a pre2k LD9 from barely idling and running in a parking lot to boosting around the streets @ 8 psi with an 11.8:1 AFR.

You'll be very happy you switched back, trust me.

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Friday, November 16, 2012 11:15 AM
SweetnessGT wrote:

Spook 427 wrote:

I been trying to tune my car here and there for 2 1/2 years, I've been running a fake 2 bar open loop, it runs ok but its rich as @!#$. I'm done, i hate our computers with hp tuners. Luckily i didn't blowup my car, and I'm just trying to clean up VE tables. Today I did 5 different logs and adjustments and i keep going up and down not getting the car to run right. I am logging in closed loop using short and long fuel trims. It sucks. In open loop the computer does really crazy things.Right now I just want a tune to slap in and enjoy my car.


Your problem starts and ends with the fake 2 bar...

Put the 1 bar sensor back in and re-tune the car. The supercharger is linear so it's very easy to tune even without the proper 2 bar MAP reading.

Took me about 3 hours to tune a pre2k LD9 from barely idling and running in a parking lot to boosting around the streets @ 8 psi with an 11.8:1 AFR.

You'll be very happy you switched back, trust me.

-Chris-


agree.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:43 AM
That would be great, the only problem I is that I don't know how to set up timing, That is one of the reasons I haven't switched back, at least if it's rich it wont kill my motor, too much time equals boom.
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 17, 2012 2:52 PM
Spook 427 wrote:

That would be great, the only problem I is that I don't know how to set up timing, That is one of the reasons I haven't switched back, at least if it's rich it wont kill my motor, too much time equals boom.


I have found that too rich and the LD9 will knock, or at least false knock badly.

Take the stock timing tables and subtract 8-10 degree's and go from there




FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 17, 2012 5:47 PM
So i subtract 8 degrees from the entire timing table, then did i work the ve tables or timing first? Does anyone have a tune I could start off with?

Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:25 PM
Spook 427 wrote:

So i subtract 8 degrees from the entire timing table, then did i work the ve tables or timing first? Does anyone have a tune I could start off with?


On my buddy's 99 Z24. I subtracted 10 degree's from the PE timing tables, but left the non PE timing tables alone.

Then took care of the VE tables (still watching for knock), once VE tables were dialed in worked on the timing tables some more, but always touching up VE at the same time.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:58 PM
how much timing do you ADD to the gm flash, john? could the stock timing settings be fine if one had lots of meth?



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:46 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

how much timing do you ADD to the gm flash, john? could the stock timing settings be fine if one had lots of meth?


Which stock timing tables? Stock as in from the factory N/A?



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:32 PM
yea u said take out 10 degrees. just wondering how much you actually ADD back INTO the gm flash for performance factors and if its about the same as you advised to take out of the stock tune.



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:38 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

yea u said take out 10 degrees. just wondering how much you actually ADD back INTO the gm flash for performance factors and if its about the same as you advised to take out of the stock tune.


What I was referring to above when I said take out 10 degree's, was 10 degree's from the stock factory tune (not the GM reflash). As the OP is tuning on a pre 00 car and is not using the GM reflash.

As far as timing that I'm running on my car with the GM reflash, I'm commanding 17/18 degree's. The GM reflash actually has more stock, but the thing to keep in mind is the tables are not as smooth stock. Also sometimes less is more.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 26, 2012 8:59 AM
Addicted to meth wrote:

-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

yea u said take out 10 degrees. just wondering how much you actually ADD back INTO the gm flash for performance factors and if its about the same as you advised to take out of the stock tune.


What I was referring to above when I said take out 10 degree's, was 10 degree's from the stock factory tune (not the GM reflash). As the OP is tuning on a pre 00 car and is not using the GM reflash..

As far as timing that I'm running on my car with the GM reflash, I'm commanding 17/18 degree's. The GM reflash actually has more stock, but the thing to keep in mind is the tables are not as smooth stock. Also sometimes less is more.


lol i know man. your not quite understanding me i think....

i know what really made wade's car come alive was the timing table changes ron did. i have no what he did or if he added etc. but what i am asking is this...

stock gm n/a tune = what timing advance?
gm m45 flash = what timing advance?

you said take out 10 degrees of the n/a tune. ok.... now, what do you do or ADD to the blower flash tune for performance? is it the equivilant to the 10 degrees you advise to remove?







It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 26, 2012 10:42 AM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

i know what really made wade's car come alive was the timing table changes ron did. i have no idea what he did or if he added etc...


I do. I have that tune on my laptop.

It's a lot less than you think Brad.

Let me explain this to you regarding what is being suggested:

LD9 Stock N/A timing is about 28 degrees in PE in the higher RPM's... give or take.

GMSC Timing is about 16 degrees at 4-5 PSI in the same range.

John's suggestion to remove 10 degrees of timing in the PE / mid load range where boost will be seen is a good starting point.

I went one better with Darren's tune and sat down and melded the two tunes together, knowing where the linear boost of the GMSC comes on and where it holds.

Without having them side by side taking away 10 degrees and then working off that is a fairly safe recommendation, although it may be a bit sluggish off boost until everything is smoothed out at boost threshold.

Regarding your setup (somehow all questions come back to your setup) - the most I have been able to add to a GMSC setup without heavy amounts of alcohol is 2 degrees. With alcohol I've managed almost 5 in some spots but I don't like doing that as it makes the tune DEPENDANT on the alcohol. To me that is unsafe and inadvisable.

Pushing that two degrees too hard brings on some serious activity from the knock sensor. God forbid it gets really hot one summer day....

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, November 26, 2012 12:14 PM
ok completely understood, sir. thank you for laying it out for my N00B arse LOL

now... with that figured out... you mention alcohol... whats the difference between it and a meth/water mix? (thats what i run)

i know mine needs a tune. probably much more than even i realize. just something thats gonna have to happen in the spring. its basically all i have left to max out the blower setup save for a built motor with more compression. well.. i guess i could do the 2.4 snout pulley too, but...

i have put the car away for the winter in preparation for the new addition to the family so right now all i got is hopes and dreams LOL cant play for awhile.

ps, im not scared to push it


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Monday, November 26, 2012 12:16 PM


It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:12 PM
I just do the high oct pe table and not the low? Or both? Could I use the tables off a stock sc tune
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Thursday, November 29, 2012 7:31 PM
Spook 427 wrote:

I just do the high oct pe table and not the low? Or both? Could I use the tables off a stock sc tune


If you take 10 degree's from the high oct tables, and they are lower than your low, you will then run on the lower, so likely will have to do both.

To use the sc tune tables, you will have to play a little as the tables do not match up 100%, so I would not, plus it would still have more timing.

Even when I tune on the GM reflash file I usually subtract a good amount of timing as a safety net until I get fuel dialed in, then I start bringing the timing back up.



FU Tuning




Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Sunday, December 02, 2012 6:46 PM
I put it in today and got two go logs, I got some more cleaning up to do. Since our computers are goofy, I just made an excel program and log actual readings, then it does the formula for me. I turned off the dfco but it still shuts off fuel, I got all the values maxed out.
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Monday, December 03, 2012 6:55 PM
Ok, I've read both, yes or no on cleaning up the idle table. If I do clean it up, will it run like crap in really cold weather if I tune in the summer or vise versa in tuning in cold weather?
Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:34 PM
Spook 427 wrote:

Ok, I've read both, yes or no on cleaning up the idle table. If I do clean it up, will it run like crap in really cold weather if I tune in the summer or vise versa in tuning in cold weather?


I always clean up the idle tables.

also with dfco, you do not want all tables maxed. some maxed some lowered.



FU Tuning



Re: pre 00 ld9 m45 tune
Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:05 PM
I started cleaning up the idle table, i had the dfco set right just the tables needed richened up. I started tuning in closed loop and it seems to be going better.
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