Standalone ecu - Tuning Forum

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Standalone ecu
Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:45 PM
Just want to kno if anyone here has used standalone ecu's in their Cav or Sunfire with a turbo setup, whats the pros and cons of it, HPTuner, tune here is $1200 starting (per tune)so I'm exploring all options if I'm going to spend that kinda money, I'd be a fukin fool to spend that and have kids to feed lol



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood

Re: Standalone ecu
Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:47 PM
$1200 is rape, i dont know where youre located but im geting a starter tune to get it running and dyno tuned for under $750.
Re: Standalone ecu
Saturday, January 19, 2013 10:57 PM
im running a haltech sprint 500


RIP Cpl Derek Kerns And Cpl Robby Reyes
24th MEU VMM-261 (REIN) V22 Crewchiefs
11 April 2012 Morocco (African Lion)
Re: Standalone ecu
Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:54 PM
What state are you in?




Re: Standalone ecu
Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:13 AM
Ya im listening.......

Im in the same boat as well. No one to tune me and I dont know if I can learn it or not. The only tuner I know of that may be able to do it is a little rich for me. May just sell the car lol
Re: Standalone ecu
Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:52 AM
Spencer wrote:

$1200 is rape, i dont know where youre located but im geting a starter tune to get it running and dyno tuned for under $750.


I HEAR YA, I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada, (go figure) and in 2 Provinces, here and New Brunswick, there's 2 guy that can tune cars so they charge what they want, of course here it's $1200 starting for turbo and aprox. $400 for supercharger which is retarded, so I gotta figure something out once I have all my pirces cuz exhaust still gotta be done after install and that money too, I could go to NB (about $600) but by the time I tow it, pay for a hotel for the weekend and drive back plus tune and exhaust ? thats over $1200 lol



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:02 AM
I am starting to look at MS3 for my cav.



Re: Standalone ecu
Sunday, January 20, 2013 3:07 PM
I was looking at the MS2 because of the price and options with different cars, seems to run pretty good, I just gotta read up on it more



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 3:56 AM
MS3 has better tuning options in my opinion. ....now if anyone would actually finish a MS3 install on a J-body....






Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 4:12 AM
I don't have boost, but I have MS2





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 7:04 AM
Tinkles(KGM) wrote:

I am starting to look at MS3 for my cav.

How would you pass PA inspection? Unless you're in a non-emissions county..


"In Oldskool we trust"

Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 9:51 AM
MS3 is nice, but MS2-Extra has all the features you'll ever need to tune any J-body engine. If you start playing with VVT, or have a @!#$-ton of I/O you need to control, then the benefits of MS3 definitely start to outweigh the cost difference.

Y3llowCav wrote:

Tinkles(KGM) wrote:

I am starting to look at MS3 for my cav.

How would you pass PA inspection? Unless you're in a non-emissions county..

Easy.




I have no signiture
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 12:58 PM
so I emailed Meagsquirt and got back a list of questions from them on everything possible with ecu's and I could answer some but these 1's I need help wit where as I never dealt with this stuff as much as I wanted to as a kid but better late than never I guess lol

2. Are you looking to control fuel only, ignition only, or fuel and ignition? Is there anything beyond these features that you are looking to control - fans or boost, for example?
4. What type of ignition system does your car run- where is the crank angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it (Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor? Old fashioned points ignition?)
5. How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)
6. Is there a distributor? Single/Multiple Coils? Coil on Plug?
7. Does this engine have a fast idle valve (IAC)? If so, how many wires are connected to it? Do you know if it is an on/off, pulse width modulated, thermal, or stepper type?




Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 2:58 PM
Cavalier Thompson wrote:

so I emailed Meagsquirt and got back a list of questions from them on everything possible with ecu's and I could answer some but these 1's I need help wit where as I never dealt with this stuff as much as I wanted to as a kid but better late than never I guess lol

2. Are you looking to control fuel only, ignition only, or fuel and ignition? Is there anything beyond these features that you are looking to control - fans or boost, for example?
4. What type of ignition system does your car run- where is the crank angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it (Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor? Old fashioned points ignition?)
5. How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)
6. Is there a distributor? Single/Multiple Coils? Coil on Plug?
7. Does this engine have a fast idle valve (IAC)? If so, how many wires are connected to it? Do you know if it is an on/off, pulse width modulated, thermal, or stepper type?

2) If you want it to be a true standalone, you want to control Fuel and Spark. You will want to have control of the engine fan as well. Boost control will require an EBC solenoid.

4) VR sensor

5) 6 + 1 offset notch crank trigger.

6) Wasted Spark DIS (i.e. 2 coils) with separate control of cylinders 1&4 and 2&3. You might or might not have to revert to an older style ICM without the separate control.

7) GM 4-wire stepper IAC.





I have no signiture
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 3:18 PM
Damn man I wasn't expecting to see them answered so quik lol but thank u, much appreciated



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 3:22 PM
1 more question about the boost control, would it effect things much if it was done manually?



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 4:11 PM
Whalesac wrote:

Cavalier Thompson wrote:

so I emailed Meagsquirt and got back a list of questions from them on everything possible with ecu's and I could answer some but these 1's I need help wit where as I never dealt with this stuff as much as I wanted to as a kid but better late than never I guess lol

2. Are you looking to control fuel only, ignition only, or fuel and ignition? Is there anything beyond these features that you are looking to control - fans or boost, for example?
4. What type of ignition system does your car run- where is the crank angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it (Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor? Old fashioned points ignition?)
5. How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)
6. Is there a distributor? Single/Multiple Coils? Coil on Plug?
7. Does this engine have a fast idle valve (IAC)? If so, how many wires are connected to it? Do you know if it is an on/off, pulse width modulated, thermal, or stepper type?

2) If you want it to be a true standalone, you want to control Fuel and Spark. You will want to have control of the engine fan as well. Boost control will require an EBC solenoid.

4) VR sensor

5) 6 + 1 offset notch crank trigger.

6) Wasted Spark DIS (i.e. 2 coils) with separate control of cylinders 1&4 and 2&3. You might or might not have to revert to an older style ICM without the separate control.

7) GM 4-wire stepper IAC.


is this ecotec?



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 5:21 PM
Yes


RIP Cpl Derek Kerns And Cpl Robby Reyes
24th MEU VMM-261 (REIN) V22 Crewchiefs
11 April 2012 Morocco (African Lion)
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 5:27 PM
Cavalier Thompson wrote:

Whalesac wrote:

Cavalier Thompson wrote:

so I emailed Meagsquirt and got back a list of questions from them on everything possible with ecu's and I could answer some but these 1's I need help wit where as I never dealt with this stuff as much as I wanted to as a kid but better late than never I guess lol

2. Are you looking to control fuel only, ignition only, or fuel and ignition? Is there anything beyond these features that you are looking to control - fans or boost, for example?
4. What type of ignition system does your car run- where is the crank angle sensor (CAS) or distributor trigger wheel and what type is it (Optical/LED Sensor? Hall Sensor? VR Sensor? Old fashioned points ignition?)
5. How many teeth/windows/slots and what orientation does the CAS, crank trigger, and/or distributor wheel have? (any missing? all evenly spaced?)
6. Is there a distributor? Single/Multiple Coils? Coil on Plug?
7. Does this engine have a fast idle valve (IAC)? If so, how many wires are connected to it? Do you know if it is an on/off, pulse width modulated, thermal, or stepper type?

2) If you want it to be a true standalone, you want to control Fuel and Spark. You will want to have control of the engine fan as well. Boost control will require an EBC solenoid.

4) VR sensor

5) 6 + 1 offset notch crank trigger.

6) Wasted Spark DIS (i.e. 2 coils) with separate control of cylinders 1&4 and 2&3. You might or might not have to revert to an older style ICM without the separate control.

7) GM 4-wire stepper IAC.


is this ecotec?


yes.

the trick with running a stand alone (fuel AND spark) vs just fuel control is you take away the factory PCM's inputs. for flexibility, it's a good thing. but for manners, it is kind of bad. MS1 cannot control the 4 wire stepper IAC valves we have for idle control. MS2 and up can. I know certain versions of MS2 can directly fire coils as well, but again, there are so many versions it's difficult to nail down what exactly you want.

if you are concerned with keeping the car emissions legal:

run a megasquirt setup that controls fuel only. the only thing you have to worry about with this is ignition retard.. as boost increases, you want to pull timing in relation somehow... doing this will keep your PCM somewhat happy, and give you flexibility to tune a turbo setup properly.MS1,MS2,MS3 can run fuel no sweat.

if you don't care with keeping the car emissions legal, and don't mind losing your stock gauges, go full stand alone. MS2 or MS3 can do this. MS1 can also, but it cannot control your IAC valve, and manual idle SUCKS (trust me, I've run my car on MS1, full stand alone with an MSD 6212 ignition box running the ignition).

the new MS3 pro ecu is by and far the best MS to date. if I ever run a full stand alone again, I'll probably go with this.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ms3pro-standalone-ecu-with-839-wiring-harness-p-538.html

this new MS can be mounted under the hood instead of HAVING to be put someplace inside the car. much more convenient for mounting purposes, and AMPseal connectors are way better than the computer style interfaces of MS boxes of the past.

it's also capable of a resolution of 16x30, again, the best to date for an MS box. the higher resolution the table, the better the car will run at multiple given throttle points.



Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, January 21, 2013 6:39 PM
lol I was just on here reading up on your old posts on this and emissions is not important here in Halifax (not yet) and I'll want to keep my stock gauges for now later on i'll try and build a simple digital gauge set up just to be different but basiclly just want to be able to have my turbo up and running right once installed and if I add anything else down the road i can learn a thing or 2 about tuning and be able to save a ton of money doing it myself with some help at first til I get the hang of it, thanks for ur input much needed and appreciated man. I'll definatlly be hittin u up more on this



Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:05 AM
Cavalier Thompson wrote:

lol I was just on here reading up on your old posts on this and emissions is not important here in Halifax (not yet) and I'll want to keep my stock gauges for now later on i'll try and build a simple digital gauge set up just to be different but basiclly just want to be able to have my turbo up and running right once installed and if I add anything else down the road i can learn a thing or 2 about tuning and be able to save a ton of money doing it myself with some help at first til I get the hang of it, thanks for ur input much needed and appreciated man. I'll definatlly be hittin u up more on this


if you're looking for a basic setup that's easy to tune and cost effective, I'd honestly point you towards having megasquirt control fuel only.

hooking up and troubleshooting a full stand alone is... a burden. I had a pretty good idea of what I was doing, and it still took me a while to chase down all my issues. And even then, I never actually got around to tuning the car. I got it running well enough to drive.. but that was it. The car got torn apart in order to rebuild my blue car.. which right now is running full factory electronics (but not for long).

drop me a PM anytime. I'm slow to respond sometimes though, I warn you now.






Re: Standalone ecu
Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:47 AM
good to know




Skr8 Goodz in tha hood
Re: Standalone ecu
Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:08 PM
-MD- Enforcer wrote:

MS3 has better tuning options in my opinion. ....now if anyone would actually finish a MS3 install on a J-body....


if all goes well, give me a few weeks. What was originally a MS3 install turned into a engine rebuild, interior rebuild, new exhaust, a REAL cold air intake, relocate the battery to the trunk, Z24 sway bars, Z24 wheels etc. It didn't help that I've been in the hospital 5 times and had 3 surgeries either.

dennis
Re: Standalone ecu
Monday, February 24, 2014 7:35 PM
anyone ever use FAST on their car?




Re: Standalone ecu
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 5:09 PM
-MD- Enforcer wrote:

MS3 has better tuning options in my opinion. ....now if anyone would actually finish a MS3 install on a J-body....


Dan Cotter does.

Whalesac wrote:

MS3 is nice, but MS2-Extra has all the features you'll ever need to tune any J-body engine. If you start playing with VVT, or have a @!#$-ton of I/O you need to control, then the benefits of MS3 definitely start to outweigh the cost difference.


I totally agree.

I'm running MS2 extra on my NA 3400. I ditched the IAC control because I tried about 5 valves but couldn't find one that worked properly with my TB. I could have tried more but got tired of it. I ended up tuning in a good manual idle, which works for me because the car is only driven in warm weather. IIRC I paid about $300 for my dyno tune after I got it running using a tune from a similar setup.



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