M45 Timing.... - Tuning Forum

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M45 Timing....
Monday, July 02, 2012 9:25 PM
Curious as to what others are with the M45 are running for timing at WOT..... With Meth, 2.6 pulley on the blower, and an OD crank pulley, I'm running 20-22* with no KR, and an 11.8-12.2 AFR..... I have ran across others tunes, and it seems most people are either ruuning stock timing, or have pulled quite a bit out, and run really rich. I know what works for me, just wondering what others are doing, and reasoning behind it... Discuss.....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq


Re: M45 Timing....
Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:39 AM
QWK LN2 (P&P Tuning) wrote:

Curious as to what others are with the M45 are running for timing at WOT..... With Meth, 2.6 pulley on the blower, and an OD crank pulley, I'm running 20-22* with no KR, and an 11.8-12.2 AFR..... I have ran across others tunes, and it seems most people are either ruuning stock timing, or have pulled quite a bit out, and run really rich. I know what works for me, just wondering what others are doing, and reasoning behind it... Discuss.....



I'm running your timing (well timing you were running, not sure if it is the same anymore).



FU Tuning



Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, July 04, 2012 7:48 AM
Even with meth I have seen a lot of knock with the stock timing that GM provided for the kit, and I've never been able to figure out why. Even a dead stock setup knocks around 3500-4500 rpm and pulls 4-5 degrees of timing.

I honestly have never had the nuts to advance the timing on the GMSC kit very much, but mostly due to the fact the cars aren't mine and I don't want to push them "too" hard. I think the highest I have gone was 18-19 degrees of advance on the car I tuned 2 months ago. It hit 207 whp without meth, and 190 ft lbs of torque. I advanced the timing a bit above 5800 rpm to keep the torque up but it cost me quite a few HP so I put it back to the previous run's settings.

If the M45 could have been intercooled I would have no issues tuning it up to that kind of advance, but I'm leery leaving people with a car that requires the meth to keep it safe. I have found out the hard way that people do NOT listen to their tuners so at this point I don't push the car "too" hard since all they're going to do is blow the car up as soon as I leave. lol

-Chris-



-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, July 04, 2012 10:22 AM
I know what you mean Chris...

Anybody else?





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, July 04, 2012 7:15 PM
I have also seen the knock in stock ld9s which I do not think is real knock. I have also tuned down the knock sensor which has made a big difference (with Ryan's help).



FU Tuning



Re: M45 Timing....
Saturday, July 07, 2012 10:21 AM
our knock sensors seem to be very touchy. i wonder if there is a way to mount a real good knock sensor, one meant for performance somewhere and log with it to see if what the stock sensor is seeing really is actual or ghost knock.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: M45 Timing....
Saturday, July 07, 2012 12:35 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

our knock sensors seem to be very touchy. i wonder if there is a way to mount a real good knock sensor, one meant for performance somewhere and log with it to see if what the stock sensor is seeing really is actual or ghost knock.
Chassis ears....





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:09 AM
lol i dont care. i know my setup sees a great deal of false knock so im not afraid to go balls deep with the timing. and if it blows? well then it just gives me an excuse to use some of these parts collecting dust hahaha

planning on running straight meth at 2 psi and spinning to 7200. none of this half water half meth crap. its gonna be STRAIGHT. and if i go to the track... its gonna get 109 unleaded and even more timing. might even just turn the knock sensor back off for olde time sake? eh.. ?? ...eh??? hahahaha



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:11 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

lol i dont care. i know my setup sees a great deal of false knock so im not afraid to go balls deep with the timing. and if it blows? well then it just gives me an excuse to use some of these parts collecting dust hahaha

planning on running straight meth at 2 psi and spinning to 7200. none of this half water half meth crap. its gonna be STRAIGHT. and if i go to the track... its gonna get 109 unleaded and even more timing. might even just turn the knock sensor back off for olde time sake? eh.. ?? ...eh??? hahahaha


The mix is good. I like my custom mix because I can get the results I want.



FU Tuning



Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:31 PM
yes actually... upon reading up mixing it actually better. so thats my bad.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:53 PM
That's because water takes away heat better.

Back in the day I used some Teflon tape to help insulate my knock sensor...

Forgot about that.. have to do it with the new red pos


Chris


'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08


Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:02 PM
Not to mention methanol is a aggressive cleaning agent. I could see it washing the walls even at 2psi.


Re: M45 Timing....
Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:56 PM
well that is actually a selling point when you look at a meth kit. that it cleans away carbon deposits and cleans up the engine internally. but yea going full on isnt a good thing. another major problem is because it could ignite. you cannot ignite water.



I choose the technology built for land speed records... not the technology built to save on emissions and gas mileage.
Re: M45 Timing....
Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:17 PM
-Z Yaaaa- wrote:

well that is actually a selling point when you look at a meth kit. that it cleans away carbon deposits and cleans up the engine internally. but yea going full on isnt a good thing. another major problem is because it could ignite. you cannot ignite water.


Thats why most premix's are 51% water. that way it wont ignite.



Re: M45 Timing....
Thursday, September 27, 2012 5:36 PM
I have run around a 75% meth mix, but now around a 50-55% mix.



FU Tuning



Re: M45 Timing....
Friday, March 01, 2013 11:52 AM
so.. theoretically... lets say one were to get the knock sensor desensitized and be running 51/49 water/meth what kind of timing could possibly be attained with the m45 for max performance?

keep in mind i know next to nothing about ecu tuning so sorry if this is a dumb question lol



It's nice to be injected but I love being blown.
Re: M45 Timing....
Saturday, March 16, 2013 10:57 AM
I didn't see any gains past 22*.





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: M45 Timing....
Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:02 PM
so i finally delved into tuning my car today..... need some advice i suppose as tuning for timing to me might as well be written in ancient greek LOL

you gotta start somewhere, and well, i know that the m45 likes timing so, what i did... i added 2* across the board from 4000 rpm on up. car really seemed to like it. butt dyno was quite pleased as well... but who knows. pretty sure the highest it gets is 21*. i didnt datalog it but i cant see the thing getting any knock, i am using enough meth/water to richen the AFR around two points. i also tuned the fuel a little bit for this with good results today.

now, should i do the same for like 1500-4000?

also, i ONLY did this in the HO PE table. do i have to do the same thing in the alcohol or LO PE table, too? was this even a good idea or?





M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. Now with 5 speed! It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: M45 Timing....
Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:13 PM
I am just learning when its coming to tuning so I may be a bit off base, and im sure ill be corrected.

But when tuning for timing you should be logging knock.

Not something to say " i cant see the thing getting any knock, i am using enough meth/water to richen the AFR around two points"

The best way is to dyno tune timing from what ive read. Since there is a point where adding timing wont make power but will up your cylinder pressure to the point of failure. So.....that being said we know dyno tuning doesnt have to be done to tune for timing.

the stuff I have read is to up the timing until you start getting knock and then back it off a couple degrees. Make sure not to add too much timing to the midrange as from ive read it can cause issues with cylinder pressures.

Make sure the transitions are nice and smooth.

Im sure Addicted to meth will come in here and clarify or correct where ive gone wrong.
Re: M45 Timing....
Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:46 PM
yea i hear ya. that statement basically went for the stock reflash timing and the 2* i added. my knock sensor has been desensitized as well so any knock i see now should be the real thing.

i have a buddy that is helping me set up something called a PID? that has to do with the scanner, apparently if i log with this particular "PID" it will tune itself, something like that. but really, i just wanted to add some timing to get a few more ponies out of it before i actually FINALLY get it dyno tuned. ive had the money set aside to do it for a very long time now its just never in the cards time wise, etc. also, i really dont think its a good idea to drive the car 90 miles to beat the piss out of it when the engine has a tick in it. i spose i could trailer it though... but on the other hand i still have the issue of well, im piecing together and planning on a motor build here real soon so why tune it only to have to re tune it, ya know? so yea i figured why not just give it a shot, the motor is already messed up, its stock with no real value to me so i guess its not a bad test bed to learn on lol



M45/OS crank/2.4 snout. Now with 5 speed! It's nice to be injected but I love being blown!
Re: M45 Timing....
Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:17 AM
My previous tuner had issues with knock/false knock on my setup and he didn't want to risk anything blowing up as he is a conservative tuner and not much experience with our J's. I know he pulled some timing just to be safe, but I KNOW my car is capable of making a lot more power with the proper tuning knowledge. *cough* Ryan *cough*




Currently #4 in Ecotec Forced Induction horsepower ratings. 505.8 WHP 414WTQ!!!
Currently 6th quickest Ecotec on the .org -12.453 @ 116.45 MPH!!!


Re: M45 Timing....
Monday, July 22, 2013 6:22 AM
I need to take a month off work and travel around and tune everybody... BTW guys, I have not had a single day off my regular job in over 2 months, and after work have been working on other projects/customer's cars every night too! I'm beat!





P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq

Re: M45 Timing....
Monday, July 22, 2013 5:46 PM
^^Or mentor someone lol
Re: M45 Timing....
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 3:40 PM
it takes an artist to tune like ryan does. the @!#$ is jibberish to me..



RIP silver car. You will be missed.
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