So how does one eliminate knock retard - Tuning Forum

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So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 5:07 PM
ok im getting 8 degrees of knock retard at certain points through my upper rpms, how do I eliminate this i do have hp tuners im unsure of what to adjust ive heard backing off timing sometimes helps



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85






Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:08 PM
You eliminate knock retard by eliminating knock, duh

Yeah, pulling timing will help cool cylinder temps a little. You could also run a higher octane gas or up the alky injection nozzle.



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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:15 PM
back down the timing in those areas of the map.... i'm not sure what would be considered "ideal" knock retard for an eco because obviously real tuning is somewhat new for you guys... 1.8T guys normally shoot for a max of 3 degrees KR, but that won't necessarily be ideal for an eco. But anyway, post up the datalog so we can see where the KR is coming into play. It could be you need more fuel in those areas, it could be you need to retard the ignition some, it could be both. Does the KR come in consistently after a certain point (in a somewhat predictable curve?)? Or is it sporadic/random? If its the former than most likely you need to back down the ignition advance along that curve, if its more of a random thing I'd say its more likely to be a problem with something driveability-wise, maybe a plug gap thats off or something along those lines. Thats what normally causes random appearances of KR on the 1.8T but clearly the same rules don't necessarily apply to the L61.




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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:36 PM
I will get you some histograms that will tell you exactly where to eliminate knock retard, let me upload them from my other computer a bit later tonight.





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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:23 PM
well i already run 93 so thats not the problem

its pretty consistant on every run past 5800 i havent seen a data log yet of mine that hasnt shown knock



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:39 PM
My first thought would be to ask you to run some unleaded race gas. 100plus octane. See in the condition still exists.

I have seen a dirty K&N induce knock. Seriously.

If you run the car relatively cool, does the condition still exist? Or does it get worse with consecutive runs

Is the condition new. Are outside temps much hotter lately?

I have seen a bad injector do it.

Does it still happen with your alcohol?

Just a few thoughts to go along with what has been said.

Since cars runnning higher octane can build carbon, you might need a top end clean. Decreased flow car certainly cause K.

How's your cat?

I would do anything before pulling timing. Your pulling power.







Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:05 PM
well im not driving 60 miles to a track for race gas

I seriously doubt the air filter has anything to do with it its not even dirty

The condition exists at any temputure

Its been going since october or before

alky makes no difference on or off still does it

top end being dirty might be a possible the car has 90k on it



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:12 PM
Could also be a loud motor





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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:17 PM
I didn't realise race fuel was that hard to get there. The reason I ask is that it can be definitive when considering false knock. Knowing this before going though everything is helpful.

I'm suprised it's going on with the alc. Hmm.







Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:25 PM
Shifted
Today 9:12 PM



Could also be a loud motor


Or A loose nut behind the wheel.



Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:34 PM
yea the entire car is loud, theres nothing quiet on it



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85






Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:58 AM
Higher Octane fuel or dial back your timing.

You don't have to go to the track for high octane fuel. Try a couple bottles of NOS Brand Octane booster (The race version). And yes it works, just make sure it says that the octane booster has MMT in it.




--------------------------------------------------
'97 Z24
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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:46 AM
well the alky injection should boost the octane level by itself, i do want the car to run right on regular 93 octane



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:08 AM
well for like 20 bucks now, you can go to an autozone and get N0S Octane booster, this claims to boost octane by 60 points or 6 whole octane. So you can try the 100 Octane gas and see if its false KR or not.


2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:21 AM
you still got that dinky M2 water injection injector? get a M4.




Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:40 AM
ill upgrade to a 150psi pump before i get the bigger injector



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:35 AM
if you have all the mounts in the car , try putting all the stock 1's in and see if that changes it

in my cav i would see 6-8 degrees on 91 , and when i put 101 in the tank , the knock droped off almost completly , in cool weather


basicly you need to find out what is the cause , before you can impiment a fix for it , race gas is usually the easiest way


if your not seeing the knock tell 5800 , you can try and pull 2 degrees from 5600-5700 up to redline , then once you see 0 , then step back up tell you just slight knock

and do it with out the alky , and just the 93 or 91 , that way you know adding the alky back or a higher octane will eliminate it all






Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
I'm getting 2-3 knock counts on my N/A 2.4...... but then again I do have Poly mounts all the way around..... I've gone from 89 oct. to 93 oct. w/o much of a change, 50*-90* intake temps, no change....... I'm thinking its just phantom knock from the solid mounts....... maybe your car is the same? (cant say for sure, since you have the Eco, and a S/C)

I'm going with the others....... add some high oct.... or oct booster.......




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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:12 PM
A water injection injector is 8$, 150 psi pump wont help much. M2 is too small.
It has been proven on GTP's, grand nationals and srt 4's, that it will reduce knock.

i also agree about the soild mount therory.

good luck.






Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Thursday, June 08, 2006 3:34 AM
it's funny hes getting 8 degrees of knock retard at 6 psi and I am getting none at 9.7 psi.. well every once in a while I see a little bit.. butt hat could be because I never took the knock sensor rubber dampner thing off from when I had my cams...?



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Thursday, June 08, 2006 4:45 AM
If it proves to be just vibrations, I've heard of people putting crush washers under the knock sensor to dampen the vibrations. Still may be a good idea to pull the timing slightly in that area.



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Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:23 AM
Phil did you ever check that

you said butt hat....huhuhuhhuhuhuhuhuhuhhuh



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Friday, June 09, 2006 2:53 PM
we are going to take some data tonight of Philbert's car and see how big his knockers are before adding some spark



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:01 AM
ccan't you put some teflon tape on the threads of the sensor to help it a bit ? somehting to think about
Re: So how does one eliminate knock retard
Monday, June 12, 2006 7:21 PM
Rodimus Prime wrote:

we are going to take some data tonight of Philbert's car and see how big his knockers are before adding some spark


HAHAHAHAHA....see how big his knockers are.....lol

you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
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