Why do you recommend HP Tuners??? - Page 2 - Tuning Forum

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Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:48 AM
Rodimus Prime wrote: and when someone else reaches 94,000 miles on a boosted ecotec, they can question whether what I do will kill the motor, wait a minute nobody else has


um wrong, I will roll over 95K this week, and roll almost 1K a week, but thanks for playing and asking around....

and another thing that occured to me that HP tuners is nice for is the ability to change where the fan turns on...there is more then just the running on a boosted engine for this software





Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:50 AM
Rodimus Prime wrote:Not everyone can rent a dyno for an entire day and spend 1000, so the dragstrip is the closest i can get and honestly the difference is so minute the 2hp doesnt really matter to me, and when someone else reaches 94,000 miles on a boosted ecotec, they can question whether what I do will kill the motor, wait a minute nobody else has



Wow, I am truly impressed.
94,000 miles of driving with your own HP tuned calibration in just a few weeks of driving. You must never get any sleep.
Or maybe you were actually a super secret pre-beta tester for HP all the way back in 2002.

My point is...
Well 1st let me say that you have truly become my poster boy for clueless tuning.
Back on point...
You are making claims and stating facts based on NOTHING.

You have stated as a fact that you have "perfect A/Fs". How do you know?
You don't, and worse, you dont understand why you don't. Yes, you have a wideband. Yes, you can tell us a # it displays. Yes you can probably show us logged data that shows that # stays the same across a full RPM pull. But how do you know its right?
1st- your wideband isn't right unless its been calibrated using a known reference gas. Free Air calibration of a wideband unit is a best, easiest guess scenario. Its adequate to get you in the ballpark, but not "perfect" and worse, by no means repeatable.
2nd- whatever # you have chosen to call "perfect" is based on what? Experience? Testing? Experience would come from tuning multiple cars and many with the same engine. So far you have one (yours). I expect you to try and claim many others, but I can easily refute that based on time with product. Testing would be easiest and best believable when done on a dyno. Something which you have stated you won't do. Testing can be done at a track or even on the street with a stopwatch, but you have not given any proof of any of this for real in any of your posts. A good place to do so would be my "post your results"post. Here's a fact.... different cars, even with the same engine, will all have a slightly different "perfect" A/F ratio #.

Then you claim "94,000 miles on a boosted ecotec". Really???
You bought the car brand new with ZERO miles and it was immediately supercharged and tuned by you before you ever drove it???
My guess is you drove it in basically GM form for the 1st 60k or so miles. This is based on your earliest timeslips in your registry being 3 yrs after you bought the car. Then sometime after that, you RSM charged it. Yet another example of NOT your tuning ability.
Based on the time period for the products availability, It would be hard to believe you have even put 5000 miles on the car with your tune. I would guess you have less than 2000 miles on it. So if it self destructs in the next 2 months (hope not) are you still gonna claim you made it last 94000 miles, or will you accept that you killed it in under 3k miles?
Yet, you claim its "easy" to tune a car.

I simply think your opinions are misguided and unfounded. It bothers me that you are so willing to push them on others so they can make (often tragic) mistakes with their own high dollar investments (their cars).
It strikes me a irresponsible to do so.



sig not found
Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:05 AM
Based on the comment I would like to rescind my earlier staement about 95K boosted miles. I have about 81K of N/A miles and 13K of boosted miles.....




Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:53 AM
IM basing my claims on nothing? Do you half of you even own HP tuners? or an ecotec for that matter

PLX widebands do not require calibration

I base my claims on what ive been able to acheive with relatively small ajdustments on my car and another ecotec, what are you basing yours on opinion? OBD1?

Im done with this thread I have nothing to prove to any of you



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85





Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:46 PM
Not to pick a fight with Rodimus Prime but, your not leaving because you cant prove anything, your leaving because you got lit up by a few very intelligent people with tuning experience. This is the time where you want to admit that you did it wrong. But truthfully, MANY MANY people here with HP Tuners probably will never see a dyno to tune it, just on the fact of the cost. So many people will be using datalogs to tune and track results, so there is a place for them. Will not yield the best tune, but it will get you much better than a fmu/afpr would get you as far as drivability goes.
Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:28 PM
protomec wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:Not everyone can rent a dyno for an entire day and spend 1000, so the dragstrip is the closest i can get and honestly the difference is so minute the 2hp doesnt really matter to me, and when someone else reaches 94,000 miles on a boosted ecotec, they can question whether what I do will kill the motor, wait a minute nobody else has



Wow, I am truly impressed.
94,000 miles of driving with your own HP tuned calibration in just a few weeks of driving. You must never get any sleep.
Or maybe you were actually a super secret pre-beta tester for HP all the way back in 2002.

My point is...
Well 1st let me say that you have truly become my poster boy for clueless tuning.
Back on point...
You are making claims and stating facts based on NOTHING.

You have stated as a fact that you have "perfect A/Fs". How do you know?
You don't, and worse, you dont understand why you don't. Yes, you have a wideband. Yes, you can tell us a # it displays. Yes you can probably show us logged data that shows that # stays the same across a full RPM pull. But how do you know its right?
1st- your wideband isn't right unless its been calibrated using a known reference gas. Free Air calibration of a wideband unit is a best, easiest guess scenario. Its adequate to get you in the ballpark, but not "perfect" and worse, by no means repeatable.
2nd- whatever # you have chosen to call "perfect" is based on what? Experience? Testing? Experience would come from tuning multiple cars and many with the same engine. So far you have one (yours). I expect you to try and claim many others, but I can easily refute that based on time with product. Testing would be easiest and best believable when done on a dyno. Something which you have stated you won't do. Testing can be done at a track or even on the street with a stopwatch, but you have not given any proof of any of this for real in any of your posts. A good place to do so would be my "post your results"post. Here's a fact.... different cars, even with the same engine, will all have a slightly different "perfect" A/F ratio #.

Then you claim "94,000 miles on a boosted ecotec". Really???
You bought the car brand new with ZERO miles and it was immediately supercharged and tuned by you before you ever drove it???
My guess is you drove it in basically GM form for the 1st 60k or so miles. This is based on your earliest timeslips in your registry being 3 yrs after you bought the car. Then sometime after that, you RSM charged it. Yet another example of NOT your tuning ability.
Based on the time period for the products availability, It would be hard to believe you have even put 5000 miles on the car with your tune. I would guess you have less than 2000 miles on it. So if it self destructs in the next 2 months (hope not) are you still gonna claim you made it last 94000 miles, or will you accept that you killed it in under 3k miles?
Yet, you claim its "easy" to tune a car.

I simply think your opinions are misguided and unfounded. It bothers me that you are so willing to push them on others so they can make (often tragic) mistakes with their own high dollar investments (their cars).
It strikes me a irresponsible to do so.


Well since you're so awesome, come tune my car for me.

Without using hp tuners....

And better then anyone COULD tune it with Hp Tuners...

Just ebcause you think you're so good.

hell I will even pay you a hefty amount...



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Friday, August 11, 2006 1:39 AM
You all think that Todd talk out of his @.. but you all forget who build and tune Karo's slowfire. He did. He tune the ecm and HE got more N/A out of Karo's engine than what most of you ran boosted. Todd never said he could do it without Hptuner, he said that everybody use it like it was a miracle tool. It's like asking a 5years old kid to make an open heart surgery. He can cut and f*** around but he can't do it right.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Friday, August 11, 2006 3:46 AM
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:
Well since you're so awesome, come tune my car for me.

Without using hp tuners....

And better then anyone COULD tune it with Hp Tuners...

Just ebcause you think you're so good.

hell I will even pay you a hefty amount...


The problem is this is the most accurate way to tune the car, but when you are doing and acknowledging only part of the process you aren't truly tuning the car. Doing a trck tune is good but only gets you the WOT tune as suggested here, no mention has been made of the partial throttle, or even no boost portions of the tune. Ne mention was made of the datalogging on his daily commute. "I take my car to the track and tune it there" which is nice but only represents one aspect of our cars.

Todd has been using his HP Tuners, and he can't use it on his car! Look at the source of the questions, evaluate what he does, and what his understanding is, and then make such comments. The questions is why is eveyone suggesting it, when 95+% of the population doesn't truly know what they are doing, and has no clue why they are doing it, only that it works and seems to get them the end goal they want. Secondary to that why are you using it, what have you done, and do you ruly know what you are doing. Many people have admitted they have no clue.

Rodimus is getting a functional tune on his car, but what is it doing in the long term, what are his EGTs for example as he modifies things. I don't know much about the tuning aspect, but I know you have to look at all the paramters and then modify one thing and then evaluate everything again. I think what he has done so far is going to fix the damage by RSM, but I don't think it is accurate either. for the reasons listed above.

You can look at this and say I am talking out my rear as I have an Eco but have the reflash so it doesn't matter, but I have the inherent ability to want to learn for the next time, or the other guys car.




Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Friday, August 11, 2006 4:35 AM
Quote:

It strikes me a irresponsible to do so.


This has been a point for me for many years. This is why I almost never try to build a chip for someone without having the car in my posession. It's too easy for things to go wrong, especially as the level of build and / or power expected increases.

Quote:

The questions is why is eveyone suggesting it, when 95+% of the population doesn't truly know what they are doing, and has no clue why they are doing it, only that it works and seems to get them the end goal they want.

The software needs to be used. The more poeple using it, the more "general knowledge" we as a community will have. But there are times and problems for which it is appropriate, and there are ways to tune which are acceptable. Posting that you added 25 degrees of timing and didn't blow the engine in an entire week is like saying "I keep jumping off the roof and I haven't broken a bone yet." Ok, but please don't ask anyone else to try it.

As a rule, without any exception, before doing any tuning make sure your basics are in order. Plugs need to be good, ignition needs to work correctly, fuel pump needs to work, filter can't be plugged, etcetera, etcetera. If you have a check engine light and a trouble code, be sure the code isn't from a real problem. And fix it if it is, don't try to tune it away or just shut off the trouble code. Always, always, always keep an eye on the basics.

-->Slow
Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Friday, August 11, 2006 11:58 PM
I disagree... I know for a fact my car has ran better all around half throttle, full throttle 1/3 throttle whatever... only since rodimus has altered my ecu, so as far as I am concerned rodimus knows what he is doing because I have seen first hand my car run better and pull harder after tuning with rodimus and HP



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Saturday, August 12, 2006 7:59 PM
Marchi1 wrote:Being a relative newbie to the tuning issues I haven't even begun to think about HP tuners, for a couple of reasons. 1) my car is a daily driver that gets about 1K miles a week and is currently my only form of transport, 2) I was raised as a RWD gearhead, I cun understand changing jet sizes on a carb, understanding the CFM and when to much is to much, I actually own and know how to operate a dwell tach (I hear people scratching their heads going a what?) but I don't know squat about this, and it scares me lots.

I sit hear and read this stuff, but know that unless I get my hands on it with a competent person (thank goodness I know Todd) I wouldn't trust myself to understand this, and I feel that many people here are in the same boat, but are afraid to admit it. What bothers me most is the people who buy it for the reason above, to remove your speed limiter. I have seen just a couple of cars that may truly need this on the track, and even fewer that need it on the street. It would have made more sense to say raise your rev limiter than the speed limiter as that may actually be useful

As for telling people, the Org as a whole needs to realize we have people who have a great understanding on everything in automotive minutae here, and we also have the 15 year old who got a car and is working on it to be ready to drive (and whose dad thinks that getting his hands dirty is checking the oil) so he has no background in car stuff and is using a WalMart special tool kit.

HP tuners is going to turn out to be a good tool, if used properly, but could also be a death of many different cars if tuned improperly. Rodimus is a prime example, up until a couple of months ago he thought his car was fine with the RSM SC kit, and their reprogramming. We have all heard that fiasco, and now he is saying it is just changing numbers in a box. I am smart enough to realzie that while changes may be small they always affect something else. I watched a friend try to work on a tune so that it would work with the Saab turbo set-up, and he had issues. One number will always affect another in these programs.

I don't recommend HP tuners yet, though I think it is an amazing tool, it is very much like adding a nitrous bottle to your car. You can get greatt hings from this add-on, it will make your car a better vehicle, but in the end if you do it incorrectly you are going to blow something up and possibly get hurt in the process.

Yeah I ramble on.....


I'm too lazy to read the entire post, but this one is about where I said the final "I agree".....

Luckily I started getting into tuning before anything was avail for a J. By working on DSM's and Honda's on the dyno and talking over proceedures with the head tech there (also one of the foreman on the creation of Crome and Hondata) I learned alot of things and started getting in-shop training from him. I don't know HpT yet, but I'm pretty eager to get my hands on it and see exactly how everything is compared to what I was brought up on over the last year and 1/2!

It's sad to know there's a tool this "powerful" availible to the nOObs that we so commonly see on this site. It's crazy hearing the guys come into the nitrous forum talking about what they want to do but have no clue of how to reach it, so I couldn't imagine how it'll be with them hearing some of the success stories of HpT and expecting themselves to be able to do it.

I'm still ordering it pretty soon though


N2O + Bolt-ons = 220Hp/250Tq

Coming Soon:HpTunersPro, EagleConnectingRods, WiescoPistons, 13sec2200


Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Sunday, August 13, 2006 6:49 PM
listening




Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:43 AM
I have to say that HPT is a great program..I am the only one in my Area (Northwest Florida) to have it right now. And yes, i know im 18 years old and im not out there changing numbers like i know everything around..No thats not whats hpt is about..I bought it to do exactly what i want to learn, learn what ever thing means and to retune chevys POS economy crap..but i do have to say Thanks to Zibel for all of his help..There people on here that have the program just to have it and say they know everything or theres the people that have it to learn..reading this post i saw both people and you know who you are. Im with sweetnessgt...your right with everything your saying.
Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:25 PM
The point of this post was never to argue about any particular person's ability to tune a car.
The real point was to see how easy or difficult people perceive tuning a car with HP truly is, and then if they think it is somewhat difficult, why they still recommend it to basically anyone regardless of skill level.

Other than Rodimus, most seem to agree that knowing how or what to do takes some upper level knowledge about how an engine works.

My personal opinion is that the software is pretty easy to use, but it provides little to no explanation of what some parameters do or what changes will result in what effects. I have seen and used other software that does a much better job of explaining itself, but only the most inexperienced users ever pay attention to it.

I have a hard time recommending it to most people because there is so little accurate reference material about it to aid a newbie at this time. What little info there is at this time is generally wrong (setting timing by advancing and watching Knock retard), or suspect at best.

The only thing that will improve this situation has been stated already in this post --- more people using it. But my hope is that it will be people of a better experience level using it, instead of all out newbies to engine performance, then posting reliable info about what works or not.

Its the nature of this beast (the org) that we have an abundance of newbies, so good info will be hard to come by anyway. So I prefer not to recommend the package to the masses because 20 people with bad info tend to shout down one person with good info.


sig not found
Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:48 PM
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:I disagree... I know for a fact my car has ran better all around half throttle, full throttle 1/3 throttle whatever... only since rodimus has altered my ecu, so as far as I am concerned rodimus knows what he is doing because I have seen first hand my car run better and pull harder after tuning with rodimus and HP


.....Prove it, This is just one more post to get your daily friction with the org.



Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:25 PM
i do not own hpt yet because of lack of tuning knowledge. i understand mechanics just fine but ecms have me lost. i wouldnt know where to start. i have been watching this forum, waiting to see some legitimate tuning info, but i dont feel that anything ive read is the right way. so for now ill be waiting.

a little off topic with this question. but, the tuning aspect aside, has anyone here removed there egr with hpt, and were there any adverse affects to how the engine ran? and if the redline is raised, is there anything past the current limit, or do u have to completely make a whole tune to go past the rev limiter? thanks for any responses



Don't steal, the government doesn't like competition
Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:00 PM
Cadwz24(Projected1) wrote:
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:I disagree... I know for a fact my car has ran better all around half throttle, full throttle 1/3 throttle whatever... only since rodimus has altered my ecu, so as far as I am concerned rodimus knows what he is doing because I have seen first hand my car run better and pull harder after tuning with rodimus and HP


.....Prove it, This is just one more post to get your daily friction with the org.


Explain the "daily friction" accusation please.

and How can I prove it? how can anyone prove their own car runs better on the org without the org first driving their car before and after tuning?

I know for a fact I ran better PERIOD.

No arguing it at all...



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:06 PM
butt dyno are not a good mesurement.



Gilles
2.3 Ho

Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:21 PM
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:
Cadwz24(Projected1) wrote:
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:I disagree... I know for a fact my car has ran better all around half throttle, full throttle 1/3 throttle whatever... only since rodimus has altered my ecu, so as far as I am concerned rodimus knows what he is doing because I have seen first hand my car run better and pull harder after tuning with rodimus and HP


.....Prove it, This is just one more post to get your daily friction with the org.


Explain the "daily friction" accusation please.

and How can I prove it? how can anyone prove their own car runs better on the org without the org first driving their car before and after tuning?

I know for a fact I ran better PERIOD.

No arguing it at all...


about half to 3/4 of yours posts are against the grain of the topic or completely off topic. Use Jons Fishers exhaust thread as an example.

and proving it....before and after dyno sheets, before and after 1/4 times...

or is just saying you're car runs better as creditable as your 15.2 E/T 14second N/A car?



Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:30 PM
All i can say is that a friend of mine who claim he did a good job tuning his car and said the same thing like Rodimus had his car properly dynoed and did thing that contradicted each modification. WHen he finally he got it tuned properly made and extra 70HP


2004 Grand Prix GTP (Competition Group)
SOLD-->1999 Z24 5M-#30 to register on JBO
"You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people'
all the time


Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:23 PM
Cadwz24(Projected1) wrote:
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:
Cadwz24(Projected1) wrote:
QBE (The Boosted One) wrote:I disagree... I know for a fact my car has ran better all around half throttle, full throttle 1/3 throttle whatever... only since rodimus has altered my ecu, so as far as I am concerned rodimus knows what he is doing because I have seen first hand my car run better and pull harder after tuning with rodimus and HP


.....Prove it, This is just one more post to get your daily friction with the org.


Explain the "daily friction" accusation please.

and How can I prove it? how can anyone prove their own car runs better on the org without the org first driving their car before and after tuning?

I know for a fact I ran better PERIOD.

No arguing it at all...


about half to 3/4 of yours posts are against the grain of the topic or completely off topic. Use Jons Fishers exhaust thread as an example.

and proving it....before and after dyno sheets, before and after 1/4 times...

or is just saying you're car runs better as creditable as your 15.2 E/T 14second N/A car?


first of all that thread was like 3 months ago, so to your "daily friction" is way out of line.

I havent been able to go to a dyno around here because the 2 within decent driving time were shut down. never ran at the track boosted. And that 15.2 was on NA do you even know what NA mods I had done? No I dont think so.

And are you pissed because I disagree with people? Sorry I do not conform to the flock and have my own ideas and thoughts.

I think you need to remove the sand from your vagina.

/me hands you shovel

and pick on someone else, because unless you can prove that everyday I post threads nad responses against the grain I suggest you relax, take a breath and step away from the computer.

The jealously is flattering, but please.. move on...

Just because I have had good results with HP tuners because of someone who is arrogant or whatever is irrelavant. I had good results with someone who knows what they are doing



LE61T PTE6262 Powered


Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:25 PM
I know this is below the belt but.....
Quote:

The jealously is flattering, but please.. move on...


i drove my car today AND hit 10psi....did you?

I would look at your own issues before suggesting that I'm jealous of you. Don't get pissed if a ask for some proof of the tuning of a car.....most are just looking for the results.....not fights

oh....And, remember when Karo got the different cams and tune, and thought that his car was running great, and felt like pulled harder than ever? ......then found out he lost 100hp but gained 80tq. Good thing he didn't go on what the car felt like..huh?







Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:37 PM
Cadwz24(Projected1) wrote:I know this is below the belt but.....
Quote:

The jealously is flattering, but please.. move on...


i drove my car today AND hit 10psi....did you?

I would look at your own issues before suggesting that I'm jealous of you. Don't get pissed if a ask for some proof of the tuning of a car.....most are just looking for the results.....not fights

oh....And, remember when Karo got the different cams and tune, and thought that his car was running great, and felt like pulled harder than ever? ......then found out he lost 100hp but gained 80tq. Good thing he didn't go on what the car felt like..huh?


No actually I dont remember that, but I did have a similiar experience, so I understand where you are coming from.

Yes it was below the belt, but it doesnt phase me because I will be able to say to you


I drove my car today and hit 20 psi... did you?





LE61T PTE6262 Powered

Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:58 PM
I drove my car today and hit 20 psi... did you?
Quote:




I hit 18...but a vacuum line came off





Re: Why do you recommend HP Tuners???
Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:49 AM
Cadwz24(Projected1) wrote:
I drove my car today and hit 20 psi... did you?
Quote:




I hit 18...but a vacuum line came off



I hate when that @!#$ happens



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