tuning a 95? - Tuning Forum

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tuning a 95?
Friday, December 08, 2006 7:05 PM
I havent seen anything for the 95, will i have to swap the computer out for something different?


"HONDA" tech wana-be

http://www.gadomestics.com/

Re: tuning a 95?
Saturday, December 09, 2006 4:57 AM
HPT is for 97+

95 2.3 manual were OBDI witch mean you can chip it. Not the Ebay chip, real chip in the Ecm. You don't need them if you are stock or close to stock. You'll want an Ho or W41 chip once you start going bigger. An Ho/W41 chip would be nice for a stock setup but won't give3 you more than 1-2 hp from timming.




Gilles
2.3 Ho

Re: tuning a 95?
Saturday, December 09, 2006 7:34 AM
so its not really worth it i guess. thanks


"HONDA" tech wana-be

http://www.gadomestics.com/
Re: tuning a 95?
Saturday, December 09, 2006 1:12 PM
Yes there is a simple solution, it's called the 95 ECU project, using the 16196285 pcm and a chip burner along with some free software and a hard worked file.

I'm about half way through the definition file for tunerpro, the problem is converting from tunercat to tunerpro def file.
Re: tuning a 95?
Saturday, December 09, 2006 1:48 PM
wow, i have no clue what all that stuff means. could you explain a little?


"HONDA" tech wana-be

http://www.gadomestics.com/
Re: tuning a 95?
Monday, December 11, 2006 3:28 PM
Having a 95 J with a manual trans, you have (simply put) the all time most tunable factory PCM ever installed in a J.

Can it be retuned? Obviously, yes.
Can it be easily retuned? yeppers.
Is there something readily available... 'off-the-shelf' if you will? Nope.
Do you need to tune it? Whose business is that really except for your own.




sig not found
Re: tuning a 95?
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 1:47 PM
Well put Todd!





Time to get it going again.....
Re: tuning a 95?
Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:08 PM
protomec wrote:

Having a 95 J with a manual trans, you have (simply put) the all time most tunable factory PCM ever installed in a J.

Can it be retuned? Obviously, yes.
Can it be easily retuned? yeppers.
Is there something readily available... 'off-the-shelf' if you will? Nope.
Do you need to tune it? Whose business is that really except for your own.

how would i tune it? and why is it the most tunable PCM?


"HONDA" tech wana-be

http://www.gadomestics.com/
Re: tuning a 95?
Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:28 PM
Re: tuning a 95?
Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:36 AM
J-TECH tuner wrote:

how would i tune it? and why is it the most tunable PCM?


You tune it by investing in the proper equipment (chips, burner, software, etc).

It is the most tunable PCM because:

there is more than one companies software to do so,

the PCM has been far more decoded than the limited decode HPtuners did for 97-up J's. Almost every if not every aspect of operation has been decoded and can be changed.

the base operation of the PCM is MAP vs. RPM.





sig not found
Re: tuning a 95?
Monday, December 18, 2006 6:17 AM
I'm sorry... I thought Tunercat had put this where it was easy to find. This has a good explanation of the "how" and "what you need" as well as some sources for the hardware.

http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/tnr_manual.pdf

-->Slow

Re: tuning a 95?
Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:22 PM
ok, i have read that manual...
now is it possible to make change via the aldl port or will i have to take the eprom out each time i wanna change something? more info on that would be great, thanx alot.




Re: tuning a 95?
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 9:30 AM
You cannot make a change through the ALDL port. You can use an "emulator" and a special adapter which plugs into the ecu to hold the calibration. The emulator can be updated as you drive by using your laptop and TunercatRT. It's faster than programming through the ALDL. Even if you have to replace the chip each time, if you use a flash chip you can reprogram faster than some of the OBDII guys.

http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=25_36
The GP1 and G1 are examples of the equipment you'd need.

Hmmm... Tunercat shows definition files for the 2.2 engine. I don't know if the 2.3 uses the same files. Send 'em a note asking. If not you can always start with a 2.2 file. And make sure their 95 J car definition works for TunercatRT. When they were first working on it they didn't have the emulation finished.

-->Slow
Re: tuning a 95?
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:08 AM
so i could install that emulator into the ecu and could tune in real time?
GP1 says it includ the G1....

yeah, i notice they only have the 2.2, but i know that the ecu from 95 2.2 is exactly the same as the 95 manual 2.3, only the chip is different. i know because the ecu i have installed is from a 2.2, but i installed the mantapart HO chip in it and it runs fine.

so i would need:
-chip burner
-chip eraser
-emulator (GP1 package??)
-tunercat software
-definition file

is there anything else i would need?
thanx




Re: tuning a 95?
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 2:05 PM
The GP1 is an adaptor with 2 chips.

The emulator is another box. There can get to be quite a few boxes involved. But with an emulator you can tune in dang near real time.

I know the computer part numbers are the same for both engines. But I don't know if the mask ID (the number that starts with the dollar sign in the tunercat page) is the same. If the mask ID is different, then you can't start with a 2.3 calibration.

Since an emulator does the same job as a chip you could, if you wanted, skip the chip burner and eraser. You would then only need to burn a chip when you are done tuning and decide to pull the emulator out. You could probably find someone to burn a copy of your file into a chip if you only need it done once.

The GP1 comes with flash chips. Flash chips are erased electrically and don't require UV light. So you only need a burner which works with flash chips if you decide to use those.

There are a couple of emulators on this page:
http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=50

I've used the APU1. It's spendy but it's nice. It does everything except erase the old UV type EPROM's. The Ostrich is supposed to be good, too. Since it's USB it will work with many newer laptops.

I use tools from Intronics. The Pocket Programmer was around for many years, and for a while the Romutator was the only game in town that didn't cost thousands. http://secure.transtronics.com/EPROM%20Emulator.html You'd need the I-PKTROM2 to emulate the 95 J ecm. I'm currently thinking of moving up to the APU1.

-->Slow
Re: tuning a 95?
Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:55 PM
ok, so if i understand right, the emulator plugs into the place of the eprom and when you are done tuning, you just burn your files and then can take the emulator off right?
now the APU1 look like its doing everything, ostrich look nice too, but it wont burn a chip, so if i could find a place to burn me a chip, the ostrich would be alot cheaper....
so i would only need the emulator, tunercat software and definition file, and i'm ready to go right?
thanx for the help




Re: tuning a 95?
Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:13 AM
Sounds like you've got the picture. You can usually find someone to do a burn. After all, you'll only need one or maybe two if you want a spare chip. There's a lot of forums out there where people are tuning.

Make sure you check with Tunercat about the emulator before buying anything.

You might also want to try and find scantool software so you can look at what the computer is doing. You'll be able to look at timing and knock, MAP, TPS, engine speed, etc. It helps to have this.

-->Slow
Re: tuning a 95?
Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:02 AM
tunercat just replied and yes, the $36 will work on a 2.3l!!
now will the emulator i wont be able to read my stock chip right?
also, i think i will need to unsolder the chip from the blue plastic thing that plugs into the ecu??? and will need an adaptor which is the G1 or GP1 package right?

sad thing is i just bought an autoxray scan tool for 250$ + 100$ custom duties. in top of that it was suppose to read my 95 obd1.5 with the specific cable and it wont!!!!
guess i'll have to find a software instead.
noww for dattalogging, what would i need? should i go with innovate thing as i already have their wideband? or there is something cheaper?
thanx for all the help





Re: tuning a 95?
Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:07 PM
i thought the APU1 from moates.net does datalogging and realtime tuning?
Re: tuning a 95?
Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:13 PM
yeah... just looked at it. i think i skipped to fast on the description lol!!
well.... now i think i'll go with this one, it really does EVERYTHING. pricey tho.....
i think i will need an eraser too?



Re: tuning a 95?
Friday, January 05, 2007 12:51 PM
If you get a memcal adaptor you won't need to unsolder the chip. If you unsolder the chip you won't need to get a memcal adapter. If you don't have a burner then you can't read the stock chip.

To use the APU1 with datalogging you'll need to set up tunerpro with an ALDL definition file. There's an old thread in the 2nd gen forum from C Smyth talking about the files needed for this. I believe you also need to use Tunerpro to read and write your calibrations if you're using it to datalog, and I don't know if C Smyth ever got that part finished. He had a page for the OBDI tuning project but it may be down now.

-->Slow

Re: tuning a 95?
Friday, January 05, 2007 1:02 PM
so the GP1 is an adapter for the memcal? i tought it was for the eprom in it... and the G4 was for the memcal...
I tought that i needed to unsolder the chip so i could install a new socket and THEN wont need to solder and unsolder everything i need to take the chip out.
whats the difference between tunercat RT and tunerpro?
is there an aldl definition file available for this ecu?
thanx



Re: tuning a 95?
Friday, January 05, 2007 4:12 PM
lets make this perfectly clear here....

The MEMCAL on a 95 or earlier J is a chip assembly with multiple parts.

"changing the chip" means altering the programming on just one of the components. It also happens to be the largest size chip in the assembly. Most of the time this means physically changing out this chip.

When this is done, the other components are still needed and must be functional.

To read the programming of the chip there are 2 options:
1- physically remove the chip from the MEMCAL (which I here is generally very difficult) and place it in a reader.
2- Use an adapter to change the GM MEMCAL socket layout to a conventional chip spacing. Moates sells this adapter as an HDR1 adapter.
Both options require having an EEPROM reader device connected to your PC and the proper software. Although there are many different companies making this stuff, I recommend Moates stuff because its been well proven and decent price-wise. For this Moates has either the BURN1 (burns or reads chips only) or the APU1 (has many more functions).

To modify the programming of the chip you will need a different program. TunerCat's Tuner and TunerRT both will work for this using the $36 definition file for the 95 J. TunerProRT does not have support for this currently but Chris Smyth was attempting to produce a useable .XDF file (definition) but the copy I have seen of it was greatly incomplete and somewhat misdecoded.

So now you made some changes and want to run them on the car. There are 2 way different ways to do this. One is to burn and install a chip, the other is to use an Emulator in place of the chip.
-To burn a chip you will likely need to purchase a new chip as its likely the factory one is not erasable easily. Replacement chips are easily eraseable and require no additional tools to do so. You will simply copy your saved, modded file to the chip using the burning software.
To install the chip there are 3 options:
1- solder the chip back into the MEMCAL unit (hard).
2- solder a chip socket into the MEMCAL unit (equally as hard) and then plug the chip into the socket. This method will make it very unlikely that the MEMCAL now will now fit under the PCM case cover and this is a huge issue on 95 Js where the PCM is outside of the car and basically in the wheelwell so you can't leave the cover off
3- Use a MEMCAL adapter that will allow you to plug in an unmodified MEMCALand use only the secondary components for their function while connecting the new chip to the PCM and bypassing the old one completely. From Moates there are two adapters for a 95 J, the G1 and G3. The others are not applicable. The G3 is a switcher module that can be used with a very custom, much larger than stock chip that is burned with more than one program. It is not necessary when using a single program chip.

The adapter is the highly recommended way to go.

To use an Emulator you will 1st need (for 95 Js) a 512kB capable Emulator and then you need to hook up its cable in the same way as installing a chip using one of the 3 methods (again, #3 is best). Moates APU1 meets this requirement, as does their Ostrich unit. Tunercat seems to support the Xtronics Romulator II for this themselves. You will also need software that is capable of RT (real-time) tuning. Tunercat's TunerRT will support this, but it will say it doesnt until it is actually connected to a 512kB Emulator. TunerPro has the possibility of supporting this when/if a decent .XDF file for $36 is ever created.
EIther way this will allow you to run the program you created and even make live changes to it.


Now onto the hard part---- datalogging using on-board data. For hardware, you will need an interface unit. Moates has the ALDU1 but the APU1 also has this function built in. Both units will need a CABL2 to work with a 95. To view and record the data you will need to use TunerProRT but a matching aldl definition file will need to be created by yourself and I have not attemped to tackle this yet myself, so I can comment on this no further.


But I can add that since the APU1 does the functions of 3 different units in one and also has wireless capabilities, if that floates your boat, it is probably the best deal going even though its more expensive than the others.











sig not found
Re: tuning a 95?
Friday, January 05, 2007 4:28 PM
thanks for clearing this up for us todd. I have been reading up on Tuner Cats RT and Moates hardware for quite some time..... i just need to get off my a** and purchase it.
Re: tuning a 95?
Friday, January 05, 2007 4:46 PM
wow, thanx, that is much more clear now. thanx Todd
now is the G4 will do the same as the G1 with a 2timer on it? that will allow me to switch between 2 .bin files, so one tuned for race and the other for normal cruising...???
then for datalogging, i already have the blue specific cable that came with my autoxray scanner so only thing mssing is the ALDL definition file which i'm not qualify to make by myself! so maybe C. Smyth is coming with one soon....

i think the APU1 will be very nice and i will go with that one. only need the money so it will have to wait until april or close to that.

so i would need:
-HDR1
-APU1
-G1 with 2timer (or G4) or maybe just the GP1
-$36 definition file
-tuner rt
-some blank chips
oh and whats the S2 Aries 28-pin ZIF Socket that comes with the GP1 package?

now only thing i need is learning how to tune an engine and i have all winter for this since i dont work during winter (the joy of being brick layer ) so if someone can give me some links or books i could read up on, that would be great. I tried to search the net, but i didn't find anything for me as i'm a total newb to that kind of stuff.
Thanx alot for the help guys



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