Drew Taylor wrote:How can you ever get tired of hearing God Bless America or The National Anthem, I get chills every time I hear either of em.
werd. i love my country. PLAY IT AGAIN SAM!
Destiny Harley wrote:YANKEES SUCK. its all an act to get people to watch dang Yankee games. Hahah they suck losing 4 straight to boston was the best thing ever!
wtf does this have to do with anything?
Since when was the playing of God Bless America a traditional part of the ballgame?
You don't hear Maple Leaf Forever at hockey games do you? How about Viva Espagna during Soccer games? Or, God Save the Queen at intermission at Cricket matches?
Doesn't happen in any of them.
Aside from Baseball being possibly the MOST annoying sport to watch for the first 6 innings, Do you REALLY need to encumber it with patriotic songs that have been played so often it's known to induce vomiting?
I think MLB needs to collectively move the hell on, or go back to "the old Ballgame" because it is tradition.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
it would take random placement of landmines in the outfield to make baseball intresting again.
but the same ould be said about golf.
anyhow, i love the land i live on (despite the current heat wave), not the country that lays claim to it.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
In all seriousness, who the f()ck cares?
If you drink, don't park--accidents cause people.
Nobody, That's why I don't watch Baseball.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
ehh...heat wave is over and it's back to rain
Still, like i said, i have no love for America, except for the utopia it was before it got bastardized a long time ago.
The Pacific NW (or whatever canada's term for the areas of Vancouver Island and Vancouver BC and the surrounding environs), is what i love.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Best way to show your patriotism is to buy American made products from American owned companies. Flag waving and "God Bless America" is ok but talk is cheap. Put your money where your mouth is.
God bless America.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]ehh...heat wave is over and it's back to rain
Still, like i said, i have no love for America, except for the utopia it was before it got bastardized a long time ago.
The Pacific NW (or whatever canada's term for the areas of Vancouver Island and Vancouver BC and the surrounding environs), is what i love.
Since when was it ever a utopia and how would you even know what it was like before it was "bastardized" and if you don't like it so much, go live in another part of the world and see if it is better or worse than where you currently live. Then get back to us. That is if you have electrcity, running water, internet access, a decent job, etc.
At the risk of starting a flame war...
It was a utopia when the whole system of America was conceived. It was bastardized when they actually put it into practice. After all, back in the colonial times the big push was upon the truth that was supposed to be self-evident: "All men are created equal", yet how long did it take for blacks to vote? women to vote? how many treaties did we break with native american nations?
it's a sad truth about any form of government that is conceived to eliminate the problems of the one it replaces: It looks good on paper, it may work well for awhile, but eventually, someone bastardizes it--takes advantage of the system. It sickens me that the populace can't see it, but hey, we're so far from out human heritage that with the exception of a very scant few, we need government to survive.
Even in theory, communism the way Marx conceived it wasn't a bad idea--but look what Lenin and Stalin did to it. Every system conceived has the innate flaw that whoever is chosen to run it can trade convenience in some source for consolidation of power. What's happening now that is the complaint of a sizeable portion of americans--including myself, is not anything new--after all, 2000 wasn't the first time a president with more popular votes lost the election.
My point was this: and try to keep open enough, mrgto, to understand that my view on reality--whether right or wrong, is vastly different than yours, whether right or wrong. There is no system that is perfect because humanity is not perfect--every system has it's faults which are decried, and it's praises which are sung. in many places in the world, it's just as good here are it is there--Canada, for one. We have out faults, they have theirs. America is not the only nation that guarentees freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of religion.
As such, my argument was not to bring out the oh-so-tired answer of "live somewhere else if you don't like it." My argument was based of the fact that the climate here, where i live, is what i'm tied to--not the humanistic ideal that lays claim to the land as part of it's property.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote: Or, God Save the Queen at intermission at Cricket matches?
I'm sorry dude but a bit off topic, running on an hour of sleep getting ready to leave work I thought you were talking about the Sex Pistols. That I would pay money to see.
First off, it is STILL the land of the free and the land of opportunity. More people from around the globe still want to come here than anywhere else in the world.
The founders were never serious about all men being created equal. Otherwise Jefferson wouldn't have owned slaves. But back then it was accepted. They were ignorant about it. We have learned. So back then, during slave times was better than today when it has been abolished?
What is up with this? "after all, 2000 wasn't the first time a president with more popular votes lost the election."
1. Gore wasn't president.
2. We are a republic, not a democracy when it comes to Presidential Elections. How does that have ANYTHING to do with this discussion?
I know, you're so tired of hearing it but you don't have the balls to actually MOVE to Canada to experience it. You're just another hypocrite that likes to yap. Vancouver has the same climate.....I'll help you pack. Just let me know when.
mrgto wrote:First off, it is STILL the land of the free and the land of opportunity. More people from around the globe still want to come here than anywhere else in the world.
The founders were never serious about all men being created equal. Otherwise Jefferson wouldn't have owned slaves. But back then it was accepted. They were ignorant about it. We have learned. So back then, during slave times was better than today when it has been abolished?
What is up with this? "after all, 2000 wasn't the first time a president with more popular votes lost the election."
1. Gore wasn't president.
2. We are a republic, not a democracy when it comes to Presidential Elections. How does that have ANYTHING to do with this discussion?
I know, you're so tired of hearing it but you don't have the balls to actually MOVE to Canada to experience it. You're just another hypocrite that likes to yap. Vancouver has the same climate.....I'll help you pack. Just let me know when.
So then let me get this straight, you are all about accepting your fellow man. But let me kick him out of my country. Good job there buddy. Way to show how you love a country founded on a difference in opinion enough to show your's is the only one that matters.
Welcome to the War forum.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Have you seen the waiting list to get into Canada? And the costs? I'd have to sell you for glue to be able to afford that...
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Nah. But seriously--don't think i haven't thought about it or looked into it.
Anyhow, let me rephrase.
2000 wasn't the first time a presidential *candidate* with the greater margin of the popular vote lost the election. The people spokem, and their voice was ignored. My point was that the system we live in here is flawed--and if you can't see that, then you make Hellen Keller look like she's got the eyes of an eagle. ALL systems are flawed because people themselves are flawed.
In the grand scheme of things--America is no better--or no worse than many other places around.
Quote:
So then let me get this straight, you are all about accepting your fellow man. But let me kick him out of my country. Good job there buddy. Way to show how you love a country founded on a difference in opinion enough to show your's is the only one that matters.
Didn't you know? That's the American way: Freedom for all the people: Unless I think you're wrong.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Looking up the climates of Vancouver BC and Seattle isn't that difficult to do and I have already done it. It's a wash. You base your life of where you live on the enviornment. Well, Vancouver will fit you just fine.
Well, then I would say you are lacking in your knowledge of the electoral college. It is totally debatable if it should be removed and a popular vote reinstated. Until then I think you should educate yourself on it.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecmenu2.htm
And you are correct, no country is perfect. But what we have here is pretty damn good and until you get out and experience what OTHER countries have to offer, I would suggest you either work to make it better, vote for those that follow your beiefs or get out there and run for office yourself. Many many many men and women have died to give us what we have. We can't appreciate it until it is gone. Just look at the turn out for elections in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. We should be ashamed.
So I say again, go live in Canada for a few years and let us know how it works for you. If you love higher taxes and waiting months to see the doctor or anything else they have to offer, then you should be right at home.
Okay, you didn't get what i was trying to say...
I KNOW the climate is very similar--i'm up there just about ever year partying with Lenko and crew. The cost to get Canadian citizenship and the waiting list is enormous. It would take me YEARS!
Onto the electoral college:
Based on the link you provided, one of the things that the electoral college was supposed to stop was political party interference.
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Look at most of the posts in the war forum here. I rest my case as to how effective that was (I'm moreso sickened by how many people fall into the political party trap, but that's another topic entirely). The electoral college sytem is outdated mainly because of the way it's run. After all, you vote for an elector, but who says the elector will vote as the people of the state want them to?
Here's my idea for a revamp:
You knock the amount of electoral votes each state has by 2. Why? We're going by House congressional districts. This way, each state gets as many votes as they have representatives. Okay. From there, instead of each states' voting tally gives ALL of the electoral votes to a candidate--only the district's vote goes to the candidate--you have to win the district, and you get one vote. So, if we assume that Washington has 9 representatives, it gets 9 votes. No voters, but how that district votes determines how that vote goes--and each district is determined by equal population area within the state and drawn up so that each area involves some urban--if possible, some subuirban, and some rural. Back on the 9-vote assumption, if my disteict (8) votes for one candidate, that candidate gets that vote, but if the 7th district votes another way, then that candidate gets that vote.
This way the vote is more clean-cut. Now, the simple way to make this fully fair for the will of the people (after all, this is supposed to be a nation of the people, by the people, and for the people, right?) is this: The average voting district population size is averages among all of the states. Now, after both the popular and the electoral votes are tallied up, if one candidate takes the pupular vote, and another takes the electoral vote, the one that took the popular vote must take more popular votes than the average number of people in a voting district times the amount of electoral votes they lost by. If they do, then they win, if not, they lose.
THEN, to make things much more fair to the people, every election, there is a simple vote on everyone's ballot: Do you think that the president/vice president/your senators/your representative should keep their job? Simple yes or no (note, that question is asked for all of the above individually, not a broadly). If a simple majority says "no", then next year is an election year.
After all, i'm sure everyone here gets annual reviews from their boos--why should the president be any different?
anyhow, my thoughts on how to streamline it and make it a bit more even-handed. It's not perfect, but in the long run i think it will reflect the will of the people in general a bit more.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
[quote=Keeper of the Light™]
Didn't you know? That's the American way: Freedom for all the people: Unless I think you're wrong.
I guess that's why I have no faith in people anymore. This a new thought, but a nice reminder.
Then you better get on it then.
There have been so few cases where the elector hasn't gone with the way the state popular vote has....then it might have never happend. I think it has once or twice in history.
To do what you propose will never happen unless you are either a rep or senator and you propse the bill and it wouldn't pass because your collegues wouldn't go for it. It would also change the Constitution, you know, drawn up back in the day you said it was so much better to live in even though non of us know how it actually was...
One of the reasons this country stays stable, in comparison to other nations, is that there isn't a turn over of Gov't every year. You would see huge instability if that happened.
..or maybe, just maybe, you would see the politicians get their asses in gear and actually stick to the promises they make come election time, lest they find themselves out of a job...
oh, and one more thing--no secret service protection if you're impeached/resign/people vote you out of office
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...and as for the constitution being changed--yes, it has...in fact, i seem to remeber way back when it was illegal for the government to impose an income tax in it's current form on people before the 16th amendment. there have been many changes to it--some good, like the bills of right, and some bad, like, say, prohibition (later repealed).
And i know things won't chance unless i ran for office and somehow convinced the populace that my ideas were good (unlikely--especially since my ideas revolve around things such as the protection from terrorism is for citizens to arm themselves instead of relying on the government to reduce personal liberties, and the abolishment of all censorship.), for the U.S. to collapse--possible, probable, but probably won't happen anytime soon), or for the populace to wake up and realize that they don't need government in any form to survive as long as they live their lives the way they live their lives, don't care how other people choose to live their lives, and don't screw or harm anyone else. and that won't happen.)
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
lol at fenway we sing sweet caroline by neil diamone in the 7th inning
steveo wrote:Dont like it? Move to Canada.
mrgto wrote:I know, you're so tired of hearing it but you don't have the balls to actually MOVE to Canada to experience it. You're just another hypocrite that likes to yap. Vancouver has the same climate.....I'll help you pack. Just let me know when.
Did the fact that Shaner made the post in the first place not lead you the believe that he already does in fact live in Canada, and like myself and GAM is about as die hard Canadian as you will find? (which really doesn't make us stand out, because lets face, there isn't much more in this world that Canadians are more proud of then the fact that they are Canadian)
I really don't think it was that hard of a plot to follow guys.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/gutty96/9c0c7e2f.gif" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">
**there is only one true love in my life... and my girlfriend has learned to live with it**
OKay.. FYI on gaining Permanent Residency in Canada: The actual costs are not that great, you need to prove your previous countries of residence, and get police certificates of good conduct from there... those *MAY* be expensive. If you lived in the USA, it's not all that hard, you do need to submit a set of fingerprints (about $150 for the printing services alone, depending, and $25 for processing). After that, you'll have a criminal record search done, and from there you'll either be approved, or denied.
Citizenship is a little different, but you must have perm residency first, and have been in Canada at least 5 years, speak either official language, and from that point, you're into citizenship classes, and usually after 2-3 years you can become a citizen.
Canada doesn't implicitly deny entry to individuals, however, those that seek refugee status must prove their status and have records regarding birth and residence. Depending on the state, you may be able to get some leniency.. I know that Afghanis, and some other nations in upheaval have to have a burden of restricted residency (basically if there is a police report with their name on it as having done so much as spit the wrong way, they're to be deported), but while they're here, they are eligible for work, health care, etc.
Anyhow..
The upfront costs aren't all that much, but, the biggest problem is that if you are here and work with landed immigrant status, you are subject to very high taxation levels. Typically, it's 20% or so, but immigrants (without work visa accreditation) are subject to about 50%. Basically, it's a welfare gravy train ride until they're citizens... or their refugee claim is denied. The only problem is that we don't deport these people enough to be serious about it... they usually get a job under the table... live 25 to a 4 bedroom house, and basically run down whatever neighbourhood they live in.
I'm not being prejudiced, I've lived across from an immigrant slum, and frankly it disgusts me.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Quote:
First off, it is STILL the land of the free and the land of opportunity. More people from around the globe still want to come here than anywhere else in the world.
This is only true when you turn a blind eye to it. The United Statesis FAR from being free! Now is it more free than other countries? Of course! I love the "freedoms' that I do have here after being overseas and seeing the thigns they go through over there. Have I ever been to Canada? Nope...but just like Keeper, I'm looking into it.
As far as opportunity goes, yea...if you're from a country other than the United States.
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And you are correct, no country is perfect. But what we have here is pretty damn good and until you get out and experience what OTHER countries have to offer, I would suggest you either work to make it better, vote for those that follow your beiefs or get out there and run for office yourself. Many many many men and women have died to give us what we have. We can't appreciate it until it is gone. Just look at the turn out for elections in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. We should be ashamed.
What we have here is good compared to what? I agreed above that compared to other countries we have it better, but saying it's pretty damn good is vast overstatement! We live in a country where someone incarcerated for a crime has the ability to get a free college education, 3 meals a day guaranteed, and even recreational activities.
A law abiding citizen can't get a meal, sleeps under a bridge, and can't get a dime for educational purposes. Pretty damn good my ass.
I agree that it's a shame that American's don't get out and vote during elections. I also agree that it's a damn shame that there are thousands of Americans over in Iraq fighting and dying for freedoms of other people that we as Americans don't even have here. I won't comment anymore on that issue because if you aren't blind...you know exactly of what I speak.
"Speak the truth, and leave immediately after"
"The urge to save Humanity is almost ALWAYS a false front for the urge to rule"
"He who knoweth things as they are and not as they are said or seem to be, he truly is wise, and is taught of God more than of men."
^^^let's not forget more funding for prisons and the welfare of prisoners than that for the education of the countries youth. Settting up the future of the country real well, maybe I should encourage my children to get some prison time to cut down on college costs.
bleh, and to be honest with you after 9/11 i wanted to slap everyone w/ a @!#$ usa flag or ribbon on their car that looked less than a week old.
