Do you think we'll go to war with Iran? - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Saturday, January 22, 2005 2:58 AM on j-body.org
gotta think on the range side.......they put a dude into low earth orbit on private money here while back..........give me a few mill and the grad students here at A&M could probably know up a reasonably long ranged ICBM(not talking low orbital but you get the idea)


the whole shootin match is going to oil down to this. Either iran is going to somehow be prevented from getting nuclear arms, or there going to have to join the world as reasonable members of the global community. if they cant do that then i think i might go dig my bomb shelter now <br>

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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Saturday, January 22, 2005 10:45 AM on j-body.org
No, actually the best way to deal with Iran would be to send a bunch of cruise missiles into their nuclear facilities, while sending stealth bombers over their SAM and missile silos......Boom, they're no longer a nuclear power...

Keep in mind that no one wants to detonate a nuke on their own soil. <br>


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Saturday, January 22, 2005 12:14 PM on j-body.org
I don't believe we will go to war with Iran, but Israel will undergo a quick military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities using that new F-15i Eagle. That's what its built for, long range. Very Soon. that ish is going down. <br>

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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:08 AM on j-body.org
ECB: Nice Idea, but Iran has SAM's that can take out a Cruise missle strike, and 3-4 Stealth aricraft put out a very noticable signature.. enough to be detected at least.

Would you like to try again?
<br>

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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:35 AM on j-body.org
1.) An M2/M3 Bradley, M113, LVTP-7, M9 ACE, EFV or any other armored vehicle short of the M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank will be destroyed by a round from the T-72, all of those vehicles except for the M9 ACE are designed to deliver Infantry to the battle field against other Infantry or Mechanized Infantry, and the ACE is designed to dig fighting positions for the APCs, AMTracs and MBTs.

2.) Stealth Aircraft predominantly fly on solo missions, and while the aircraft themselves have very small Radar Cross-Sections, the tankers that they re-fuel from do not. So while the Iranian Early Warning Radar Net my not see the Stealth Aircraft they will see the tankers.

3.) Iran has a very formidable air-defense net, similar to Iraq's during the first Gulf War, and the Russian made SAMs are very good, and very dangerous.

4.) Cruise Missiles have no form of countermeasures, so unless Intel knows the exact position of every SAM battery in Iran chances are that a lot of Cruise missiles will get shot down on their flight to the target. The benefit though is that they have such a long stand-off range that they can be fired discreetly from a submarine in the Persian Gulf.
<br>


Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:53 AM on j-body.org
Heres an interesting picture from Iran.. Its ONE of their nuclear reactor sites



Satellite image released by DIGITALGLOBE shows the Bushehr nuclear reactor site in Iran approximately 17kms (10, miles) south of the city of Bushehr. Iran said it was not taking talk of a US attack seriously, but nevertheless cautioned Washington that military action against the Islamic republic would be a 'major strategic blunder.'(AFP/DIGITALGLOBE/File)


Source, yahoo news <br>








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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Tuesday, January 25, 2005 3:10 PM on j-body.org
Saint: Thanks for the information. Tactical info is a good thing

Whitecavy:
Are there any more pics of the Iranian nuclear installations?

If you look you can see the Reactor core (small blue circle above and right of centre) and the Radar Dome just above it...

Think there's a few SAM sites protecting it?
<br>

Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:12 PM on j-body.org
Quote:


1.) An M2/M3 Bradley, M113, LVTP-7, M9 ACE, EFV or any other armored vehicle short of the M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank will be destroyed by a round from the T-72, all of those vehicles except for the M9 ACE are designed to deliver Infantry to the battle field against other Infantry or Mechanized Infantry, and the ACE is designed to dig fighting positions for the APCs, AMTracs and MBTs.

2.) Stealth Aircraft predominantly fly on solo missions, and while the aircraft themselves have very small Radar Cross-Sections, the tankers that they re-fuel from do not. So while the Iranian Early Warning Radar Net my not see the Stealth Aircraft they will see the tankers.

3.) Iran has a very formidable air-defense net, similar to Iraq's during the first Gulf War, and the Russian made SAMs are very good, and very dangerous.

4.) Cruise Missiles have no form of countermeasures, so unless Intel knows the exact position of every SAM battery in Iran chances are that a lot of Cruise missiles will get shot down on their flight to the target. The benefit though is that they have such a long stand-off range that they can be fired discreetly from a submarine in the Persian Gulf.


in reference to part1. Consider the range of the T72's vs the M1A1 Abrams..also, consider the fact that we lost 4 Tanks in Desert storm. Iraq lost 4000... Iran's millitary isn't much of a comparison. Also, we send our tank battalions out first, not our troop carriers. Common sense tells you that the tank battalions take out the heavies so that the support elements can move in..

In reference to part2....the tankers(KC-10 extenders) do not fuel over "hot zones"

In reference to part3, Sam sites are easy targets. They were easy targets in Desert storm, and are still easy targets. Also, cruise missiles don't always show up on radar and in many cases, bombers don't even need to actually see their target(ie, launching their bombs over mountains(or hurling, as it is more accurate of a term)

In reference to part4. Sattelite Imagery(Our technology in this field is phenominal. You wouldn't believe your own eyes if you've seen some of this stuff.
<br>


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:42 AM on j-body.org
Tanks aren't always the first things to go into an area, usually it's the Dozers of the Combat Engineer Battalions, Charlie Company, 7th ESB, did the initial breach of the Berm during the opening stages of Operation Iraqi Freedom 1 with Artillery Support, I have more then a few friends in that Company who are veterans of that war who were passing the Grunts at times during the war. A tank is only effective in open terrain where it has room to maneuver, in tight confines it is worthless without infantry support, so if the enemy has a tank dug in a halfway decent fighting position it can inflict some serious damage on our troops. The M9 ACE may run behind the tanks during cross-country manuevers, but once it reaches it's destination it's out on the Front lines, with the tanks behind it protecting them while the ACE digs a fighting position.

Now that isn't a fair comparison about the number of tanks lost, because not all of those tanks were lost to tanks, a good number of them were lost during the 6-week Air Campaign leading up to H-Hour, and during the retreat up Highway 1 to Basra.

I know that Tankers don't fuel over Hot Zones, but a Radar site can see further then it can track.

SAM sites are only easy if you know exactly where they are, if they're Camoflauged and Concealed, from up in the air they're not that easy to spot. A HARM missile is a damn good weapon system, but it's a race against the clock on a Wild Weasel mission, and the SAM radar only has to be on long enough to get a good solution then fire the missile, and a HARM can't track a Radar site that isn't on. I know they will go to the last known coordinates of the radar signal, but that isn't always a guarantee.

Our Satellite Imagery may be phenomonal, but there are ways of hiding a SAM site and the enemy knows these ways, they're not stupid no matter what anyone says, spend some time out here on the roads and you'll see what I mean. There is no reason to think that the Iranians would fight us much different then the Iraqis are right now, at first they might try to fight a maneuver war, but even then it will have Guerilla elements in it.

I'm not saying we wouldn't defeat the Iranian military, our training and technology is superior to theirs, however you can never underestimate your enemy and you also need to know the weaknesses of your own gear, they might not teach you that on the Air side of the house, and honestly that isn't much part of your job, but on the Ground side you get to see the war from a whole different perspective and get a grasp of all aspects, and an appreciation for what everyone's job is.
<br>


Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:56 AM on j-body.org
GAM (no doot aboot it) wrote:

Saint: Thanks for the information. Tactical info is a good thing

Whitecavy:
Are there any more pics of the Iranian nuclear installations?

If you look you can see the Reactor core (small blue circle above and right of centre) and the Radar Dome just above it...

Think there's a few SAM sites protecting it?



Yes, try this link. There's a bunch of pictures.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/bushehr-imagery.htm <br>








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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:09 PM on j-body.org
Sweet.... Nice detail

Thanks!

Bushehr is already active and most Russian Reactors make weapons grade Plutonium isotopes and Uranium 285 as a normal part of their cycle. Made a mistake there though about the Radar dome... It's a second reactor core. Looks like there's a 3rd one about to be built.

It's not great to see that site going, honestly. At least the Russians could be counted on to not sell to their weapons-grade leftovers, Iran will probably be marketing that stuff like Pakistan and N. Korea.

<br>

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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Friday, January 28, 2005 3:59 PM on j-body.org
One-on-one the US military cannot be beaten... but the situation we are in now, with troops all over the globe and concentrated in Afghanistan and Iraq, we cannot hope to beat Iran in a war. With the US population against a draft we simply do not have the troops to spare... I agree we would need a bigger force than in the last two campiagns and it would be much longer... then you have the nuke card, these Iranians probly wouldnt care if they detonated a nuke on their soil... if Bush is dumb enough to start something God help us
<br>


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:25 AM on j-body.org
Welp... Your people elected him.

The rest of get to deal with it right along with you

You're in good company at least.
<br>

Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:08 AM on j-body.org
SPITfire wrote:

One-on-one the US military cannot be beaten...


If bush decided he needs to prove his manliness to the rest of the world and tries to send the U.S. into a land war with China, you might find our how wrong that statement is. And even if we did win that war, we'd not feel like it.

I'm likening the next president to either another bush (scary), or an FDR--a LOT of things they will have to fix from the previous administration. But unlike some of the nutjobs in the states, i could care less i9g he consults an astrologer (so did Reagan ) <br>

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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:24 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

If bush decided he needs to prove his manliness to the rest of the world and tries to send the U.S. into a land war with China, you might find our how wrong that statement is. And even if we did win that war, we'd not feel like it.

I doubt even Bush could be that stupid...plus China hasn't done anything to threaten the U.S. lately. It also has nukes which essentially makes it a non-target.
But say we got into a conventional war with China, I say the U.S. can easily win a war... if the U.S. doesnt try and do the invading that is... we stand no chance on the offensive against all of those millions of troops. That is China's one advantage... out Navy and Air Force are far superior to Chinas and if we played stand off with them they could never get a landing force near our coast... and if a few ships were able to get across the Pacific our land forces are technologically superior and should be able to mop up the stragglers... the U.S. population is so bothered by casualty rates overseas nowadays(that are small compared with past wars) that a major war seems very very unlikely in the near future




Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:33 PM on j-body.org
There was an article... not to long ago...

It had an 'unofficial' quote regarding Taiwan and the US.... basically, if the US defended Taiwan they would nuke Western coastal cities.

Sh1t like this I need to bookmark.





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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Wednesday, February 02, 2005 8:25 PM on j-body.org
Jinxed:

It's known policy. China still regards Taiwan as it's own territory, if the US happened to step in to stop Communist China from annexing the soverign government, they'd find the west coast would become pretty cheap land considering the fact that it'd be an ambient temp of about 4000 degrees celsius. Basically, if you think that you're going to take a place like that with brute force, you're thinking in the stone age.

The touchy part of dealing with China is that they've been more subtle than Russia, and much more quiet than any terrorist state. They've had their hooks in numerous organisations and rogue states for years. Wonder why Kim Juong Il has been co-operating rather than agitating? Look to Big Brother.

The only way to cripple the Communist Governments is through their economies... Now is NOT an opportune time.. However, there are reforms starting in the Chinese system that may make it advantageous to press change.

Either way, if China wants Taiwan, it'll TAKE Taiwan. If it wants Japan, it can TAKE Japan. If it wants Korea (both north and south) it will TAKE them both.

The problem is that it cannot be feasibly stopped just now because the CIA, NSA, British Security council (MI-5/6), GS9 and FSB (and other coded organisations) have been more ro less incapable of putting people in the country since China was returned Hong Kong. For now, most europeans are kept out of most places that matter. They need mandarin and other native talkers in there... Those kinds of people that are willing to go back are in very, very short supply.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Thursday, February 03, 2005 2:56 PM on j-body.org
Well, i'm new to the whole scene (car scene, that is) and to this website, but i think i should put in my two cents for what it's worth. First of all, i AM from Iran myself. Actually, we moved here when i was like 4, so i don't really remember it much. Oh, and before any idiot starts calling me a terrorist or anything (one of my own FRIENDS did that after finding out i'm not technically white), i should point out that not only is my bro serving in Iraq right now, but i'll be going also in about 4 months or so, right after my 19th b-day. As far as Iran goes, the entire country has been on the brink of a revolution for quite some time, and there's no way that it would be a serious threat to U.S. if we went to war. The people would be more than happy for the help to overthrow the current islamic regime cuz it's way to oppressive. But personally, i really don't want it to lead to this war with iran not only cuz i've got family there, but i'm really tired of seeing our soldiers and other innocent ppl die. I dont really support Bush or his war, but i support our troops completely cuz they're the ones that are out fighting this war for Bush. And yeah, i'm a democrat. But i'll be the first to admit that the elections in Iraq was a great thing and congrats to Bush for getting them there. I just hope things go better with a lot less bloodshed in the future, cuz there are ways to settle disputes without deploying your army to a foreign country. And as for China? i dont know enough to make up my mind.
Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Thursday, February 03, 2005 4:56 PM on j-body.org
Chronos:

If someone here calls you anything other than your screen name, or a nick name or something that you're cool with, I guarentee someone (If not yourself or me) will be all over them like a cheap suit. It's easy... just rip them for being an ass.

Now.. for Iran, If you're just short of 19, you were more than likely born under the Ayatollah Khomeni, and you wouldn't know about the Shah, but I suspect your parents would. Under the Shah of Iran, things were quiet, but opressed. The 70's and early 80's were a great resurgence time for Islam because of Kashmir, Afghanistan and other soviet satellite states and the Mujahadeen's appearance.

The Shah wasn't a very friendly person, because he was for all intents and purposes, as bad a dictator as Idi Amin. He was loyal to the US, and that's a big part of where the thrust of anti-US sentiment in the Islamic revolutionary government came from, mainly because when he was deposed the first time, US marines helped stage a counter-coup in the early 70's IIRC... re-installed him back to power.

Things aren't any better than under the shah, just less paint on the walls, and less walls.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:22 PM on j-body.org



Quote:

If it wants Japan, it can TAKE Japan.


Do you know how many air bases are in japan and the surrounding islands?? Do you know how many fighter squadrons are in japan? That would not be an easy kill by china... Not in any stretch of the imagination..



Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Friday, February 04, 2005 9:12 AM on j-body.org
As great as American Air Power is, Aircraft can not take or hold land, only troops can do that. Some quick strikes to the Marine Corps and Army Bases could cripple the ground troops ability to defend the islands. I agree that it wouldn't be easy, but it's not like the troops stationed in Japan and Okinawa are at alert levels like they are over here in Iraq, I tend to agree with GAM, if China wants to take Japan they can physically take Japan, holding the Island Nation is another story




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Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Friday, February 04, 2005 11:13 AM on j-body.org
Japan seemed to have an easy time kicking the you-know-what out of China just 60 or so years ago... and Japan is just as far ahead technologically now as it was back in the 30's and 40's... yeah I know things have changed alot since WW2 but didn't the Chinese have millions of troops back then too? I wouldn't want to be a Chinese soldier forced to invade the Japanese home islands, those people would fight hard!




Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Friday, February 04, 2005 5:28 PM on j-body.org
Before the communist revolution in China (1949), it was, with far less troops. So, no, that was not the same China that Japan fought.
Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Friday, February 04, 2005 5:32 PM on j-body.org
China was pretty much crap until the advent of Maoism and Communism.

Their great march (IIRC) killed off a huge number of people.

Also remember that at the time of WWII, China was still under dynastic rule, and had only enough army to sustain protection for their leaders against revolts from peaseantry. Britain was expected to defend from the Japanese because they held a large navy and kept the port of Hong Kong and a few other sea ports. The brits, however, had a bigger problem on their front doorstep. It was basically a colonial navy and army that was left to defend, and they were pretty quickly wiped out not soon after Pearl Harbor was attacked.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Do you think we'll go to war with Iran?
Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:30 AM on j-body.org
Japan's military itself is not strong. They are only a Self-Defense force, and thus are dependent on the United States for Defense, which is why we have so many Bases on Mainland Japan and Okinawa. They're aircraft and ships are copies of our equipment built off liscence, and while the Japanese Self-Defense Force will do an admirable job they would easily be overwhelmed if the Chinese wanted to invade




Yella02-I promise I will return to you in one piece and this will stay up until I am safely home

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