U.S. Military preys on minorities? - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum

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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:58 AM on j-body.org
I agree that we need more boots on the ground. Our new "quicker military" is great to hurry and get into capitals but we do need more troops to stay back as we move there. I agree with that. We really dont need more armor. Im in baghdad right now and I have my body armor and so does everyone else at Camp Victory (The Lion base as the insurgents call it) including the contractors. I have only been here for about 2 months but I have yet to see 1 un-armored humvee. Every single one that leaves base has armor. I got transported from the airport in a huge armored bus. If you guys have any questions about what its like over here or would like to see some pics of what its like over here feel free to shoot me an email at roland.bullock@iraq.centcom.mil . Even if you guys would like to see a pic of somethin I dont have just ask and ill see what I can do for you.

Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:31 PM on j-body.org
It may be called "new" but I think you would agree that the strategy used is again a variant of "Blitzkrieg." Overwhelming airpower coupled with rapid advancement piercing through enemy lines creating confusion and allowing for the envelopement of the enemy and systematic annihalation by said air power.

The problem is, invading Iraq was not going to be strictly a pitched battle between equivalent armies, but a rapid destruction of a vastly inferior force followed by an occupation. The army must not simply be defeated, but must be contained and accounted for. Our rapid advancement and near overextension left backdoors open for military personel to blend into the crowd to fight again. The military KNEW this, and wanted up to three undred thousand more troops for the job, and the neo cons quartered that force.

But I guess htis is not a thread on tactics. So back on topic.

We are seeing not only minority recruitment dropping, but total enlistment. I think this is indicative of several things.

1) The appeal of the military option is losong some luster now that death and dismemberment are real possibilities

2) The anti war effort is gaining some momentum and is effecting those who are the general targets of recruitment

3) The blacks/latinos are losing interest in killing at the behest of wealthy caucasians who cut all programs designed to help bring the minorities up, whilst asking them to die for their political aims.


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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 2:55 PM on j-body.org
Rollin 24 wrote:
Niceguy4186 wrote:ok, give me an honest answer, you know two guys, Same phyical build, same GPA, everything is exacly the same except for the fact that the first kid is dressed in nothing but A&F and driving a brand new Corvette while the other one is dressed in a Wendys uniform and driving an 1990 Geo metro. You know everything about there charactor is the same. due to time constrants, can only approach one... which one do you go up too? and why?

truthly answer that, and you will get my point.

and i agree, while it would do the nation's males good to be force to join the military for a short while, but economiclly, nationally, and stratigically, it would be stuipid to do.

For the record, i do work as a civilian on an air force base. My weekly poker game is constly changing people due to good friend getting deployed to iraq. I am by no means a pussy who is complaining. If my sidauration was different, i could very well have signed up out of high school, but i weighted out the pros and cons, and came up with that i could make the best of my life by not joining. If the military started offering tons more money a year, then yes, i would reconcider it... but until then, it's not worth my wild


What AFB do you work at?


Wright-Patterson, in Dayton Ohio



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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:36 PM on j-body.org
Rollin 24 wrote:
ToBoGgAn wrote:your point? so black recruiting is down, big deal. i don't know @!#$ aboot micheal moore but i would like to know if he served even one single day in the military. BTW what are the statistics for all recruits in the military, is the black percentage highest or not, is it not safe to assume the military is "preying" on whatever group is recruited the most?


Hey man, Im in the military and I know the U.S. doesnt prey on minorities as Moore tried to portray in his movie.


GAM.....I am very well acquainted with military blacks. Im in the military sitting in Baghdad, Iraq right now. What was the point of Farenheit 911 that I missed? Have you also watched Farenhype 911? I have seen both because I wanted to be balanced and not just see one or the other. The majority of his "facts" in Farenheit got wiped off the table.


hey man good luck and keep your eyes and ears open and your head down when you need to. I know what it is like, i spent a minute or two in baghdad too, where exactly is camp victory at, close to BIAP or no, I was at the War college when I was there, we called it camp muleskinner then, who knows what it's called now. my biggest problem is when someone tries to play a card (any card i.e. race, sex, sexual preference) and make it seem like they are being mistreated, everyone has it bad sometimes, that doesn't mean the world is out to get you so get the @!#$ over it and drive on.

everyone is right aboot the volunteer army not being preyed upon and that is great. i was a get away from where my life was going guy, and damned glad i was, and spent a minute on active duty. hell i might be one of the dumbest smart people you will ever meet, should have applied myself more instead of party (hindsight is 20/20), but i wouldn't trade it. i learned more as a @!#$ up and figuring out how to get right than i ever could have from a book. and the people i met are unforgettable, like what's his name.

hell where is this going, oh yeah, don't use the military as a stepping stone for your agenda. and no matter if you support bush or his policies or the "war" on terror, support the soldiers that YOU put there.
because you voted or didn't. either way you made a choice (for the kerry voter's who were on the losing side, should've made a better case against G-dub)





Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:34 PM on j-body.org
Camp Victory is by BIAP. It surrounds Al Faw palace. We have camp slayer and camp sather right around us.
Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 5:43 AM on j-body.org
Rollin: I've seen both movies, and all I'll venture is, knowing what I know, Both movies sought to further an agenda, and neither convinced me of anything new.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:21 AM on j-body.org
Niceguy4186 wrote:
Rollin 24 wrote:
Niceguy4186 wrote:ok, give me an honest answer, you know two guys, Same phyical build, same GPA, everything is exacly the same except for the fact that the first kid is dressed in nothing but A&F and driving a brand new Corvette while the other one is dressed in a Wendys uniform and driving an 1990 Geo metro. You know everything about there charactor is the same. due to time constrants, can only approach one... which one do you go up too? and why?

truthly answer that, and you will get my point.

and i agree, while it would do the nation's males good to be force to join the military for a short while, but economiclly, nationally, and stratigically, it would be stuipid to do.

For the record, i do work as a civilian on an air force base. My weekly poker game is constly changing people due to good friend getting deployed to iraq. I am by no means a pussy who is complaining. If my sidauration was different, i could very well have signed up out of high school, but i weighted out the pros and cons, and came up with that i could make the best of my life by not joining. If the military started offering tons more money a year, then yes, i would reconcider it... but until then, it's not worth my wild


What you do as a civilian, I know they make a butt-load of money.

What AFB do you work at?


Wright-Patterson, in Dayton Ohio

Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 8:11 AM on j-body.org
opps, missed the what do you do part...

I'm in a student hire program. My two main responsiblity are maintaining web pages ( http://www.afrl.af.mil/index2.html ) and help coordinate Air Force participation in high school science fairs. I actually talk to two or three recruiters every day (during science fair season).

As for civilians making a boat load of money... I'm not to sure about that, we make decent wages, but no real oppertunity to make great wages. Here is our GS pay scale with per location. http://www.opm.gov/oca/05tables/txt/gstbls.txt

I am allowed to work full time, but can't because of my school schedule. But if i did, i would be making just under 28K a year. (not bad for a full time student)
From what i hear, with a college degree, you start off around a GS (grade) 7 and work your way up to a 9 pretty fast. I'm not too sure how the steps work.

Engineers normally are around GS 11-13 depending on different things, and i believe my office manager is a GS 13 (in charge of about 30-40 people, with about a 3.5 million budget (i think) for what we do)





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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Monday, March 28, 2005 4:15 PM on j-body.org
Niceguy4186 wrote:it's all about the economic demographics.


I haven't looked at the rest of the posts but this ticked me off. I'm 19, in Air Force ROTC on a scholarship to receive my commission as an officer in May 2008. My father was in the Air Force (reserves) for 27 years. He loved every minute of it. Did he make a killing? No. Did he love his job? Yes. Did he serve his country well? Yes.

Mind you, I am not poor. My parents make well over $180,000 gross. Am I spoiled? No. I also have a twin brother that enlisted in the Air National Guard who is in training as we speak. I go to school full-time, work part-time, bought my own car, paid my own insurance, gas and for my mods.

Whatever, now I'm getting off topic. My point is recruiters don't target economic demographics.

I actually went to the AIr Force ROTC recruiter myself, not HE come to ME.



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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Monday, March 28, 2005 11:50 PM on j-body.org
pjk91:

(those are my dad's initals!)

Okay..

Its like you said, the military can't force you to sign on... it's attractive for a lot of people because of the college payout, living expenses, benefits, etc. paid for you. I was saying that a lot of minorities don't sign on because they've been taught to distrust the military, police and other people on positions of authority... others haven't been taught that way. It mostly breaks down (at least in my mind) to: do you feel ready to accept the possibility that you will be sent into combat in a war the you do not agree with?

Draftees could opt out as consiencious objectors, or have an "accident" in training or miraculously end up with a sniper wound in the foot, but if you enlist, you don't have viable reason to disobey orders because you signed on the dotted line of your own free will after having the possibilities explained you.




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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Friday, April 01, 2005 1:49 PM on j-body.org
My point is, if the politicians think it is so important and so meaningful, why dont they send any of their kids to die for it?"



i never understood how people can buy into this thinking, u dont send your kids off to join up. the kid decides wether or not he wants to join, the parents have no control in the matter,

michael moore asking people tosign their kids up to war, would be the same as asking me to sign ice cold up for war.



"We are seeing not only minority recruitment dropping, but total enlistment. I think this is indicative of several things."


only one answer here, all the kids that just sign up to get free money for college dont want to go to war. the majority of people dont sign up for the millitary because they hope to go to war.


"Whatever, now I'm getting off topic. My point is recruiters don't target economic demographics."

only commercials ive ever seen for the millitary basically is about getting money for college, if thats not hitting on a certain demographic i dont know what is.


im glad your serving pjk91 and the others in here that are, but just because you are diffrent then the rest doesnt mean everyone else is the same as you. there are allot of familys out there that have no idea what it would be like to have their family make 180k a year.






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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:27 PM on j-body.org
its all good



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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:10 PM on j-body.org
sndsgood wrote:My point is, if the politicians think it is so important and so meaningful, why dont they send any of their kids to die for it?"



i never understood how people can buy into this thinking, u dont send your kids off to join up. the kid decides wether or not he wants to join, the parents have no control in the matter,

michael moore asking people tosign their kids up to war, would be the same as asking me to sign ice cold up for war.



"We are seeing not only minority recruitment dropping, but total enlistment. I think this is indicative of several things."


only one answer here, all the kids that just sign up to get free money for college dont want to go to war. the majority of people dont sign up for the millitary because they hope to go to war.


"Whatever, now I'm getting off topic. My point is recruiters don't target economic demographics."

only commercials ive ever seen for the millitary basically is about getting money for college, if thats not hitting on a certain demographic i dont know what is.


im glad your serving pjk91 and the others in here that are, but just because you are diffrent then the rest doesnt mean everyone else is the same as you. there are allot of familys out there that have no idea what it would be like to have their family make 180k a year.


Well i have jus a few things to say about some of the comments you jus made. one problem with recruiting is that the army sells themselves and markets the army with money. ive seen it alot in my area, my friend told me i should join the army over the marines cuz he's gonna get like 60 grand or some @!#$ like that. I dont know why they do that but they do. I didnt join the marines to make money, i joined the marines to make a difference. I want to go out and help people who cant help themselves. ya, its nice to be makin 350 a week and not have to worry about a house payment or food n stuff like that. Ill be able to use that money instead to get a nicer car and pay off my credit cards alot faster. and if i decide to go to college again itll be free, but thats not why i decided to join.

And your thing about commercials, id like to know what commercials you see cuz the only ones ive seen are where the kids are tellin their dads that they decided what they wanna do with their lives, help people so they can be very succesful therin bein successful themselves, or the marine climbing the cliff, or the ones with the message "we've been waiting for you".

As far as recruiting goes, most schools around here dont allow the recruiters to go and talk to the students because they dotn wanna lost students to the military when they are graded on howmany students graduate and go to college. is that right to you?? for the school to say "no, we dont want you to take away our kids so we get a good grade." I dont think so. but the smaller poorer schools actually allow them to come in and talk, seeing as how less of those students go off to college statistically. they believe it gives them more of a chance to do something with their lives. So you see, the BIG problem nowadays is that people always look for the easiest way outta somethin. " ok kewl, ill join the army cuz cool, i get alot of money to sign up...........@!#$ you mean i have to work for it, nevermind then, id rather do what everone else does for a living."

Take what i said with a grain of salt if you dont like it, but its true.


"Lil Brudder! He's got the heart of a champion!"
Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Friday, April 15, 2005 5:51 AM on j-body.org
u didnt join to get money, but the real TRUTH is, allot of kids do join to get money for college, look at your friend he wanted u to join one part of the millitary because u get more money.

up until this year almost every commercial would state how much you could get to pay for college. is the entire commecrical about money, never stated it was, but many of them all have a blurb about how much money u can get for college, i think right now the commercials have changed this last year or so and they are making it about serving your country, because they are smart enough to know that during a time of war they arent going to recruit that kid wanting some college dough, their only going to recruit the kid who wants to serve his country.


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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Monday, April 18, 2005 7:19 PM on j-body.org
ok, i wasnt tryin to start anything. I just find it annoying when people DO join for money and then whine about havin to do something for that money, its like some people expect the government to jushand them money and call it good, whats wrong with people nowadays?


"Lil Brudder! He's got the heart of a champion!"
Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:04 PM on j-body.org
I was disapointed by F911. IT portray'd all military as too stupid or too poor to do anything else which is not true. I could have done something else but I wanted a stedy job out of high school that didn't pay minimum wage and would pay for my school which is not an option for a lot of people in the civilian world.

FInd another job that will pay 100% for your school.




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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Friday, April 22, 2005 4:10 AM on j-body.org
Just realise that both are trying to make good on their own agenda, and that neither WANTS you to think for yourself... That would mean self-determination.




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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Monday, May 02, 2005 6:20 AM on j-body.org
I read through a few of the comments but failed to see a minority post a reply to it, and since I am one I will do it.

Rollin24: You were never a minority in regards to race, s you have no idea what its like growing as a black male or female in the United States. As explained before, most minority youths are ignorant of the responsibility that comes with military enlistment and look at it as a way of getting out of the ghettoes they live in and could really care less what the consequences. They think it better to be shot in war, than to be shot in the streets. Not very many black men make it to 25 so as long as you can pass a physical and background check, the fastest way out is joining the service. How do I know this? Because I did it, my brother did it, and I encourage black youths to get informed before they enlist...and usually they change their minds...

EastCoast: The same thing I said above goes out to you too. You also have no idea. You can't comprehend what I'm saying because you have never witnessed or experienced it first hand. Do you not think that recruiters know that in urban neighborhoods, parents really can't afford their kids college education? You don't see them scrambling about in Suburbia do you? Why, because most of those folks can afford to send their child wherever they choose and they won't be as easily fooled into the lala land that recruiters paint for ignorant recruits.


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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Friday, July 01, 2005 6:55 PM on j-body.org
Chamillionaire wrote:I read through a few of the comments but failed to see a minority post a reply to it, and since I am one I will do it.

Rollin24: You were never a minority in regards to race, s you have no idea what its like growing as a black male or female in the United States. As explained before, most minority youths are ignorant of the responsibility that comes with military enlistment and look at it as a way of getting out of the ghettoes they live in and could really care less what the consequences. They think it better to be shot in war, than to be shot in the streets. Not very many black men make it to 25 so as long as you can pass a physical and background check, the fastest way out is joining the service. How do I know this? Because I did it, my brother did it, and I encourage black youths to get informed before they enlist...and usually they change their minds...

EastCoast: The same thing I said above goes out to you too. You also have no idea. You can't comprehend what I'm saying because you have never witnessed or experienced it first hand. Do you not think that recruiters know that in urban neighborhoods, parents really can't afford their kids college education? You don't see them scrambling about in Suburbia do you? Why, because most of those folks can afford to send their child wherever they choose and they won't be as easily fooled into the lala land that recruiters paint for ignorant recruits.


I am white, so white that i only have 2 colors pale and burned, and i joined the military to get away from where i was going. i know a little aboot being the minority from when i was a kid in tennessee and was a minority being the white kid, there it was different since there was always so much oppression from the ignorant whites in the area but where i lived i was the minority to everyone. did that change the way i think, no. half of my friends in the army were considered minorities, it went so far as one of my african friends considered me his equal as a black man, telling others that i was half black with no question.

i can agree that some people do not fully comprehend exactly what they are doing when they enlist, does not make it right just a convenient excuse, but if they stayed past their initial enlistment that arguement goes out the window.





Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Sunday, July 03, 2005 9:27 PM on j-body.org
Rollin 24 wrote:I’m sure you all remember the scene in Fahrenheit 9-11 where Moore tries to make the case that the Military preys on minorities in it’s recruiting practices.
I wrote extensively about this a while back and showed Moore’s deception in the way he portrayed the issue.

Well, today figures were just released showing that elistment in the Military among black citizens is down 41% since 2000. Where once the Military was recruiting about 23.5% of it new members from the black community, today only about 13.9% of the new recruits are black. A new article in the The Daily Press reports;


"It’s alarming,” said Maj. Gen. Michael D. Rochelle, commander of the Army Recruiting Command at Fort Knox, Ky., and one of the Army’s most senior black officers. He said no single factor explained the drop. But clearly, he said, the propensity of black youths to enlist is affected by the war and increasingly by views of parents, teachers, coaches, clergy and other “influencers."Whaddya think, is Moore one of those influencers? I can’t say for certain, but I have a hunch.

Either way, apparently, ( as if we didn’t know it before) he is wrong that this war is being fought by a majority of poor black rectuits. No, he didn’t say that specifically, but he did lead the discussion that way and many people have said it for him

.....(In the film), Michael Moore takes you on a recruiting mission with two Marine recruiters, and you actually witness how they prey on poor communities like vultures, while admitting that their recruitment has yielded naught in the provinces of the Plutocrats, the injustice of it all becomes crystal clear. Hell no they won’t go! Never mind that they own the country, they ain’t prepared to fight to maintain their dominion over the rest of the world. That’s for the poor ignorant slobs who believe they are going overseas to fight for freedom. The film is chock full of revelations like this.The film is chock full of something indeed.


Michael Morre is @!#$ and took all that out of context, Watch Farenhype 9/11 it tells of the out takes he made to make it look like one thing he wanted, to discredit Bush. He made false accusations and staements in editing alot those interviews.

Recruiting is down accross the board, not only with Blacks but all races, Why you think the Democrats from Kansas are wanting to reinstate the draft. This will be the first year the Army Misses its mission on recruitment.


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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, July 05, 2005 2:17 PM on j-body.org
you can't blame it all on micheal moore though, even if he is a douchbag. i don't know aboot the other services but the army has had this coming for a while, they spend too much trying to get new recruits to enlist and hope they may stick around after the first enlistment is up when they should be keying in on the personnel they already have that want to stay. over the last few years there was a mild attempt to rectify the situation but nothing really geniune, so now attrition seems higher and initial enlistments are down. who's to blame, doesn't matter, this is past the finger pointing stage and in the need to fix it stage.






Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Tuesday, July 05, 2005 7:34 PM on j-body.org
ToBoGgAn wrote:you can't blame it all on micheal moore though, even if he is a douchbag. i don't know aboot the other services but the army has had this coming for a while, they spend too much trying to get new recruits to enlist and hope they may stick around after the first enlistment is up when they should be keying in on the personnel they already have that want to stay. over the last few years there was a mild attempt to rectify the situation but nothing really geniune, so now attrition seems higher and initial enlistments are down. who's to blame, doesn't matter, this is past the finger pointing stage and in the need to fix it stage.


No Moore had nothing to do why the Army is down. The Army has Currently the Only Re=enlistment bonus out right now , I will tell ya why. The Amry had its Mission upped mid stream, 30k in personel because of strategic plans changing. The Amry ( always the Biggest) are now even bigger according to Op Plans now in effect. Bigger Battallions, Bigger companies, Bigger Platoons. . They ahve down sized both the AF and Navy, And career Men and women of those services were offered transfers to the Army without loosing rank or Job. Its called Blue to Green. If you dont believe me look it up. Being that Army upped its mission is the reason why the goal will not be met, Otherwise retention is up due to huge re-enlistment bonuses and requirements for senior NCO and Officers because of the restruture. I am a DOD contractor I see this crap everyday , For those who dont see it, You may think you know But you dont.


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Re: U.S. Military preys on minorities?
Wednesday, July 06, 2005 4:20 PM on j-body.org
Blue to Green, a whopping 375 airmen or sailors transferred, not very impressive. i do not dispute your information since i no longer care or have any need to check on re-upping, but no matter what senior ncos or officers say there will be the unaltered truth behind their story, even if the think they are being sincere.

there are definitely problems with the military, mostly with image from either bad press or just plain unlucky dumb@!#$, and things will more than likely deteriorate more before it gets better. when it happens to curb back up i hope it is better than before it goes down.





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