Tredici: I'm really sorry to hear about your mom.. I know it can't be easy, and I'm sure this touches a nerve for you. What I'm about to say is not meant to at all mean-spirited or to incite you to get angry, but there are differences between what your mother had, and Terry Schiavo, mainly, your mother's cancer was rapidly degenerative and terminal. I don't know the specifics, but I'd hazard a guess that it was pretty much inoperable or that it had metasticized...

Terry Schiavo has cortical brain death, basically her cognitive functions like thought, speech and other voluntary functions are gone, yet the parts of her brain that control cardiac and pulmonary functions as well as nervous functions, is not adversely harmed. Her condition will not improve over time, but it probably won't worsen because those involuntary functions are still there.. the condition is not terminal, only that she needs liquid nutrients (which her body is now dependant on, her digestive system has adapted to the paste; she will not be able to eat solid food again).

I have no doubt that what your mom went through was horrible, and I'm not trying to be patronising, but where your mom's cancer had a terminus, Schiavo's condition doesn't... but there is no possibility of recovery either.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

The more interesting question isn't whether she should live or die, but who get's to make that choice? If the husband is legally allowed to terminate her life, on what ground to the parents stand? Why should parents get a role in this decision and not others when you reach the age of Maturation?

Here we have an adult woman whose parents (whom don't have custody or are financially responsible for her) trying to dictate what happens to her to her husband who is responsible for her. The parents lost their responsibility for their daughter at age 18, or at the very latest, when she became married. What next? If my wife wants to buy a car with our money, should my parents be able to say no to her?

This case has already ran the gauntlet in Florida state courts, will all courts ruling that the Husband has the legal right to remove the feeding tube. The issue isn't should she die, but whether the husband has a right to make that choice without her parents having a say. I say he does.

Either way, it's food for thought



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Oh, I know...if my wife were in that situation, I would do the same thing...in fact, she's already asked me to if the situation arises...

What i find humorous is that people are still hanging on to the sanctity of life. If life was sacred, then no one would die--or is you subscribe to the monotheistic faiths, then god wouldn't be the leading cause of death.

Everyone has to go sometime, whether it be "natural causes", your neck snapping like a twig in a car crash, getting caught in the gears of a combine, triying to beat a train across the tracks, or choking on a ham sandwich, you're gonna go sometime.

Besdies, bush was "dissapointed" at the ruling.

Well, i'm disaapointed that he got reelected, but we can't have everything now, can we...


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

I just went through a similar situation.

My cousin had a baby 1 Feb. She was born 3 lbs 4 oz and she had a stroke in the womb, it caused her brain to stop forming so essentially she didn't have a brain or a least a functioning one. She has a brain stem that proves her with some movements. She was born blind and deaf. She looks normal. She would sort of cry, she would grab your finger, she would kick and move around but she was sort of the shell of a really baby. It's not like she was going to grow up and get better. She passed away last Friday. She was 1 month and 18 days old. She was not sustained by any respirator but just by a feeding tube. The mom and dad refused to sign the do not resuscitate order in hopes that she would last longer. How long was always unknown. She has passed away now and tomorrow is the funeral.

I have been hearing this story in the news since i moved to Florida over 10 years ago. its a terrible thing to have happen to anyone. someone nailed it earlier in this post. if this was done intentionally to a healthy person and then kept alive on purpose it would be considered inhuman. i look into the eyes every time i have seen her in the news. it breaks my heart to see them.

IMHO i think that none of us can stand in judgment over what is happening here. this is one of the hardest decisions these people will ever face...the point isn't what we think, what we can live with,what we believe to be right..what we think don't matter nor should it.

Princess: Sorry to hear that... it's never easy to deal with when an infant has problems like that. I hope your cousin and her partner (didn't say whether or not they were married, and I'm not going to assume...) aren't sour on having kids. My twin did effectively the same thing, and it never breathed on its own.

Cinny: I think that it may be sage or sanguine to have her evaluated by another neurosurgeon just to clam up doubters. Either way, it's best to have the foresight to just avoid this situation with a Living Will, and communicating your wishes to all people that might have a hand in deciding what may be done, ideally at the same time so no-one can say they didn't hear.

Keeper:
It's kind of sad that there are still people that think that doctors have to stave off death at every turn... Best doctor I ever knew was the one that treated my Granddad when he had progressed into Alzheimer's dementia... he was extremely patient and decent... ended up telling us that he could help manage the pain my granddad had with his cancer, and that treatment may only net him a few more years, but he'd be in pain, and his mind would most certainly be erased.

I think dieing with dignity is what everyone deserves, some that fear death that much will chase down every last ray of hope, but frankly, if it's not worth it, it's not worth it.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

Looks like it's going to the Supreme Court...again. Hopefully the Supreme court will deny cert. once again and the poor woman can end her suffering peacefully according to her wishes with her family with her at her beside instead of out trumping up a media blitzkrieg.

What I have heard is that none of the so called experts for the parents that say she can recover have actually examined her.

Numerous Doctors have saying she can not recover. Her brain is too badly damaged.

People say she reacts to things like her name. Maybe sometimes. If you really wanted to know say her name 20 or 50 times and record the reaction each time. One time her opening her eyes at her name being said is maybe. 11 out of 20 or 26 out of 50 maybe a little more convincing. 15 out of 20 or 40 out of 50 thats almost proof she does react.

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004/articles/terri_schiavo3.htm

In the above link they claim she never had a heart attack, was potassium defficent (side effect of acute myocardial infaction) or bulemic as reported in the news. They say she was injured in the neck aera supposedly from her husband strangling her.

I dont know what really happend but I think that if the above were the case surly somone would have recongnized that.

I say let her go though. If God wants her to live she will live feeding tube or not. If he wants her to die she will die.





My 2k3 Chevy | Nebraska Region SCCA

Supreme Court declines cert. Thurs. morning...

<img src=http://www.nrc.nl/images/scholierenschiavo2.jpg><img src=http://pssht.com/sitebuilder/images/ThumbsDown-213x164.jpg>

Tommy Boy wrote: If God wants her to live she will live feeding tube or not. If he wants her to die she will die.

I agree with this. As much as we fight and want things to go our way it's up to God. I understand that it's easy for us to say that because most of us are not in the position that terri's family is and i pray for her family and all others who have to be in the same situation.
This kind of stuff happens all the time in the hospitals around the world and there has to be a point to let go.

Okay... I did a bit of research about this, and I have to say it's not looking very convincing on the side of the folks, but I'll put out what I know and reference what I can, a lot is coming from a <a href="http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html">Florida Law Blog</a> on the subject, after 1998, the story is pretty well publicised, so I'm not going to get into it.

- Terry Schiavo (nee Schindler) originally had weight problems through her childhood and into her adolesence. She went on a "strict" diet, and lost considerable weight and muscle tone. There is speculation that she was crash dieting.

-She met her soon to be husband in 1984 at the age of 19. After 6 months they were married.

- In 1990, due to extremely low blood potassium levels due to bulemia, she goes into cardiac arrest, and due to oxygen starvation, about 50-60% of the areas responsible for consciousness and thought in her cerbreum dies.

- In order to facilitate rehabillitation and therapy, Michael Schiavo trains for accreditation to become a Registered Nurse with concentrations in emergency room, physical and mental rehabillitation therapies.

- As well in 1990, Michael and the Schindler family raise enough money to pay for Terry to undergo experimental stimulation probe surgery and therapy in California. After the surgery and therapy course, Terry's condition does not improve. During this time, Michael and the Schindler family seek out at least 10 neuro surgeons and brain specialists' counsil on how to deal with her condition. Also during this time, she undergoes at least 15 EEGs, and 5 MRI scans as well as several PET scans to determine the extent of the neurological damage Terry suffered.

- in 1993, the Schindler family and Michael Schiavo file suit against Terry's physician and for failling to diagnose and treat her bulimia. While on appeal, the suit is settled for about 1.2 million dollars. About half is awarded to Michael for the loss of spousal priviledge, and the other half marked for payment of therapy and other expenses relating to treatment and rehabillitation for Terry (eventually, the entire amount of the settlement will have been given over for housing treating and legal fees regarding the suit against the doctor).

- After 8 years, and continuing therapy, as well as several doctor's consultation (bringing the number of doctors consulted to 15) over 8 years, with supporting affadavits regarding Terry's wishes (namely, Michael's brother) as well as the treating doctors' expert examination reports and other testimony from staff that treated Terry, Michael petitions Florida state courts to have Terry's nutrition tube removed, stating that she would not choose to live with that tube inserted. Terry's parents rebut the suit saying she would choose to live with the tube inserted.

Much of the back story is related to The Terry Schiavo Story Broadcast on A&E, to be fair, there was pretty even coverage given to both sides of the debate, and it was left up to the viewer to decide... One thing I can honestly say that I like about Towers' productions and A&E on the whole.

Here's the thing that's striking me as at best hinkey, and at worst bloody selfish of the family: The Video that Terry's family released, the one where she seems to laugh, follow a balloon, recognises her mother... etc... the thing is, that video (which was released against order of the court, because the case was still being heard by the Florida state supreme court) is only about 80 seconds worth of positive looking video.. There was a WHOLE LOT more attempts where she didn't do anything, much less move or follow any commands that require a cognitive response.

I've seen the EEGs, the CAT scans (bilateral) and MRI's (section images) and the extent of the brain damage is at best, significant. I'm no Neurological specialist, but when there are 2 large black areas that penetrate the cerebral cortex (the large lumpy lobes in the top and front of the cranial cavity) and basically leaves less than 30% of the brain unaffected, I doubt that anyone could recover, especially 15 years after the fact.

I don't think that there is any question that Terry is ending up the loser in this because either way, she's been through enough. Irrespective of whether or not others have recovered (the ones that get cited a lot didn't have the exensive damage Terry sustained, and were in a locked in state, or have had relatively minor interruptions with aggressive rehabillitation with modern methods within hours of recovering conciousness) Terry has been found to be not likely to recover by all the doctors that have examined her. I have seen and heard of the other doctors that say she can recover, and I honestly wonder if they are in posession of all the facts. She's been evaluated, and re-evaluated in good faith by her husband and family... recovery isn't an option.

The other thing that PCS touched on that disturbs me greatly, is that there is sworn affadavits by at least 3 people (Michael, his Brother, and a friend that Terry knew before she met Michael) stating that Terry didn't want to live in the state she's currently in, yet her parents are not repsecting her wishes. The problem that I see developing is that a whole lot of people are making it their business (ie. MEDDLING... that means her parents, her brother, the nurse that joined the parents side after Michael gave her hell for not doing the prescribed treatment properly or at all (she was fired from the hospital, so she has an axe to grind), Jeb Bush and the rest of the Florida state legislature, as well as anyone that has tried to force the court to do anything that was against Terry's expressed wishes), where they really have no say at all.

I also find it disturbing that throughout most of the literature that I've read from Terry's parent's side, she's constantly referred to as their "Child." She's 41 years old... child stopped being an applicable term 23 years ago. The language states a lot about the way she's being treated.. Sure, she's still her parent's DAUGHTER, but she was grown up enough to decide to marry, she could make her own decisions.

I see a lot of subterfuge and forcing of outside issues into this case by the parents' side. Not that I blame them, but you'd think after 23 times at bat, they'd get the hint, and respect her wishes. I can't imagine what it's like to outlive a child... But, it happens every day, and I don't think the parents want to have to deal with that.

Just another reason to think things through before you make a major decision in your life, and make plans ahead of time. A will, a living will and life insurance.. and communicate your wishes to those that can make decisions for you if you can't for yourself. It's macabre, but it has to be done.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

HAHAHAHAH^^^^^^^


Goodbye Callisto & Skaði, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.

oh mann your going to hell lol^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

let her die, its no way to live a life.



maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow....... but some day

OMG... That pic is goooold.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

your going to hell for that solaris. lol

i think the Supreme Court and everyone else needs to butt out.. this should be a family matter.
id say jsut let her pass on with whatever dignity she has left. its jsut costing money to keep her alive. and with her death, more lives can be saved. sick people can use her organs. example: her heart, liver, both kidneys, and maybe her blood or bone marrow.
thats like 5 lives that can be saved there.



Im a Xbox 360 fanboy...and damn proud of it!!

It should be, however, if you look at the link, Michael, who is her legal guardian given that Jeb Bush is no longer the ad litem guardian, Had to petition to florida state courts to get the feeding tube removed. I forget the exact reasoning behind it, but I suspect it's necessary in the absence of legal documents like a will, DNR order, or living will.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

GAM (The Canadian One) wrote:It should be, however, if you look at the link, Michael, who is her legal guardian given that Jeb Bush is no longer the ad litem guardian, Had to petition to florida state courts to get the feeding tube removed. I forget the exact reasoning behind it, but I suspect it's necessary in the absence of legal documents like a will, DNR order, or living will.

Exactly. The courts determined both who the legal guardian was, as well as had a fact-finding to determine if her husband/guardian had the option of taking her off life support...

If Terri Schiavo were an animal, she would have been euthanized years ago. Quietly, painlessly, and humanely. However, because we treat our pets and our dinner with more respect than each other, she will have to starve to death. Now, which is worse, a stab of a needle, then nothing, or years of lying in a hospital bed, being port-injected with nutrients through a tube in your abdomen?


<img src="http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v290/americonium/Heavy_weight.jpg ">

Quote:

A North Carolina man is in jail in Asheville on charges he threatened Schiavo’s husband.

The man was arrested in connection with an e-mail that placed a $250,000 bounty on Michael Schiavo’s head and offered a $50,000 bounty for the elimination of a judge who denied a request to intervene in the case.

Gotta love the Irony of a few of the Terri Schaivo pro lifers . Then there's the one guy who who thinks he's god that said "If she dies y'all will have hell to pay!".

Sorry to say but she is going to be dead within a week, all the news stations will cover the aftermath of that for about another week and that will be it. The whole thing will be forgotten from the publics minds in about 2 weeks from now and all us Americans will find something new to worry about.




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